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pvp engagements? (awakening)

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by Flex556, Jul 4, 2020.

  1. Flex556

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    I have been trying to figure out how to properly engage players in pvp.
    My timing is decent but everyone in the game seems to have SA all the time and I cannot land a cc, meanwhile it seems almost nothing I have is protected except nightcrow.

    So an example of things I have been trying...
    lets say the opponent dashes in on my left trying to get my back. I nightcrow to my left as they attack and this puts me behind them, I use midnight stinger or shadow eruption which hits them right in the back but they are SA so I fail.
    Sometimes I will bait their attack into my block, as their animation is going, F into nightmare RMB > midnight stinger. This again doesnt do anything because they are using a SA ability.
    I feel like the only way I can win a duel is playing very cheaply, peppering people with DoD, escaping, range attacks etc

    Sometimes I can get a lucky GRJ trade but it isnt often.

    Blade of Darkness / Cry of Darkness feels useless as it holds you in place to use. Cry of Darkness feels extra clunky and not much reward to be had.
    Nightmare feels useless as it has no sort of cc attached to it.

    Im very new to sorc and I know its probably me just trying to learn but I cant help feel a little frustrated. What should I change in my thought process to help me out. I feel like I am looking at awakening wrong.
     
  2. Spartakatz

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    your problem is most likely that you have no idea about enemy skills. using generic terms like "SA skill", and "seem".

    figure out what skills they use, what they actually do, and where the protection is. all classes have gaps in their skills, if you don't know those, it just becomes heavy gambling on your side.

    how do you fight other sorcs? you will know that in between the iframes you can catch them, and the iframes are not infinite how people like to claim. the same counts for other classes. they can't do endless protected ccs, have gaps, and some also run out of stamina.

    at that point you can only improve by learning other classes at least a little bit.
     
  3. Flex556

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    I speak in generic terms because if I say the lahn used cool ability 1 you will say "well that is SA so don't attack during that." I am simply trying to give you an idea of how I am thinking when playing, but yes I need to learn more. I will ask for some slack there because there are a ton of classes and now successions. None of my friends play classes I am familiar with lol

    I've only seen a handful of sorcs in battle arena and I try and watch what they do. Several land CC's with violation, I never have this luck and usually die in violation (even very very short uses). Most are also very in and out. Get in, exchange if successful good if not get out. (Which seems to be a common playstyle)

    I am trying to figure out what my thought process would be instead of specific sorc vs class stuff.
     
  4. ConGie

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    Shadow eruption canceled by your iframe is a great float, so is your shift x, those two are what I start with generally and then the combo I follow from there depends on how tanky they are and by what means they are tanky.
     
  5. Flex556

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    yeah i like shadow eruption to start things, just finding openings is the hard part for me.
     
  6. PeaceInChaos

    PeaceInChaos Sorceress 63 NA

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    As a Sorc, the best way I can put her PvP style is being "actively-passive". Sounds dumb, but IDK how else to put it. Sorc is a class that relies heavily on capitalizing on misplays - lots of cancellable animations and lots of i-frames to trap or trick people into their misplays. Yes, Sorc is able to be the oppressor and be the engager, but that requires mastery of the class, good gear, and knowledge of when other classes can be exploited. For most Sorcs to find success, it's all about the bait, baby.

    To engage as Sorc, you have DoD, one of the best engages in the game, you have Turn Back Slash cancel - both in Awakening stance or C swappable from mainhand - that flows well out of i-frame, you have Signs of Agony, although that skill is a very slow, aimed projectile, you have Blade of Darkness, which you can shorten the wind-up animation by using the skill immediately after an i-frame or A/D+LMB - mastery of Blade of Darkness will go a long way for you, plus, it's super flashy when used in a combo...lots of style points there, you have Dark Flame frontal guard, Nightmare is a decent psuedo-engage as it is good for baiting people in if you don't get caught at the start of the animation and you can RMB to get to your opponent's back, though, I normally use Nightmare exclusively for defensive purposes, unless it's a 1v1, then I'll sometimes try to use it to get the jump. Cartian's Nightmare is a decent Super Armor with very good trickle damage, but is risky since you're immobile. I use this primarily for defensive purposes as well when in a tough situation, but don't go the full charge unless I'm trying to pump out damage if I'm in a safe position to do so. For any class, it's all about knowing when to use what abilities and how. For Sorc, it can be tricky because our class is highly unprotected when on the offensive, is heavily gated by stamina consumption and knowing how to keep up your shards. This is something that can only be learned with practice. Highly suggested to level up Breath as much as you can, stamina goes a long way for our class.

    IMO, for most Sorcs, especially newer ones, Sorc is best used as "bait that can kill". Sounds dumb and "bro WTF". But our plethora of "tricky" abilities (cancellable, lots of i-frames, granted you have stamina) makes this class ideal for luring enemies in and punishing them for entering your danger range. Very good distraction as well in group PvP. For 1v1, my best tip is to bait people in, i-frame when they blow their wad, and land them with a non-CD DoD or animation-cancelled TBS for the KD, or a Shadow Eruption out of i-frame for the float. If your CC is unsuccessful, set up another trap. Be patient. Let your opponent make a mistake and punish them for it. Against ranged classes, DoD is best, but you need to be careful when you use it because it's very telegraphed when on CD and it's easily blocked or dodged if your opponent isn't sleeping at his/her keyboard. Gonna have to find some way to get in and land a melee range CC like Shadow Eruption, which can be tricky since the only way to safely get in range is with Night Crow, which chugs stamina like a drunkard on St. Patty's Day. You'll be rotating FG's and SA's to get in, on top of Shadow Leap, your best disengage, so you'll have to make the right decision on whether to use it or not, or what options you have if you do use it at a bad time. Shift+Z (Shadow Ignition, I believe it's called) is a good SA gap closer that does decent damage, good to use when trading blows, combo'ing in and out of other abilities, or for short-mid-range mobility. If you're wanting to be an aggressive Sorc, you'll have to learn perfect stamina management and all of Sorc's cooldowns on her limited protected abilities. But yeah, pretty much just practice, you'll get it. Sorc can be a tricky class to play since it's so unprotected and so much micro-management is needed, but once you master the class, you'll be a beast because most of the playerbase are bad players. Including myself. XD lol.

    PS - Try not to get too cozy with Midnight Stinger. It's unprotected and you're an easy catch during this ability.
     
    #6 PeaceInChaos, Jul 10, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  7. Flex556

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    this is what im talking about right here.
    It is so hard to get people to talk about a class deeply. Every time I ask someone "just use iframes and kill people" or "you need to practice a combo" None of this tells me about how to play the class effectively or how to think when playing the class.
    Baiting people is what I love to do. It is so fun and i am good at it but all of the people I play engage me with super armor/protections i dodge / cc attempt. If they dont catch me they disengage and wait until cd's are up then repeat. This is the part where I want to play aggressively but like you said stinger and rushing crow close gaps but not very safe.
    I think i am using DoD too far away, i see them stiff but I cannot get to them to capitalize on it. I feel like i need to play mid range more instead of extremes. I often fight Lahn's and archers sometimes witch/wiz.
    Archer is hardest because their range + escapes > my breathe lol so its hard to catch them and they gonna land a hit before I can.
    Lahn is a little better but succession is so protected and alot of the moves look the same. Even though I have been playing this game for some time now it is hard to retrain my brain on things. A player can completely miss hitting you with an ability and my mind tells me "now they are weak they missed!" but that isnt true at all.

    is blade of darkness (and its flow) worth attempting?
    thank you for taking the time to write that!
     
    PeaceInChaos likes this.
  8. PeaceInChaos

    PeaceInChaos Sorceress 63 NA

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    I agree, fighting an archer can be a pain. So much ranged CC and well protected, and getting in close drains stamina really quickly. Not to mention their damage being able to melt through our block very, very easily. My best tip is to learn to time DoD, this is probably your best ability versus an archer, so try to keep that value of it in mind. When it's on CD, the casting time is very long, but off CD it's quick AF. So try to use DoD at the right time, sorry if that sounds generic, but hopefully you get what I mean by that. When you get in melee range, many archers do that air-flipping move that is I believe is protected. Try to bait them into putting that air-flip on cool down and punish them right when they land. Archer has a lot of burst and cc, but they aren't very fast, we are faster in terms of animation times. Keeping enough stamina up can be tricky since archer is a good class at kiting away. Best I can say is practice is key, but that's very generic to say, but what else can I say lol.

    Witch and Wizard can be a pain too. Against them, I'd suggest to try to punish them after they use teleport. They will be far away and it can be a guessing game to know where they will land after TP. Usually, immediately after TP, casters look to land a CC from range. You can counter this by iframing it into Shadow Leap to close the gap the hit them with a quick CC, hopefully they are in the middle of an unprotected ability. Fighting against casters really is a mind game, since casters want to keep their distance and us sorcs want them in mid-short range, so we are both looking for mistakes by the other to get in our ideal position. Can be either a really easy matchup, or a really hard one, depending on the player...I can't recall a heated back and forth battle with a caster, it was always either really easy, or really tough, least from memory. Haven't fought that many casters in 1v1 though, so I may be a bit ignorant on this. Maybe another sorc can chime in on these MU's.

    Sorc is not an auto-win class, by any means. Lots of people who've never played Scythe Sorc say otherwise, but that's out of pure ignorance imo. Sorc takes a lot of practice and muscle memory, our class is just too delicate. Deadly, yes, but delicate. Lackluster protection outside of iframe and heavily gated iframes by stamina and only a few functional SA, FG and one very unreliable protected CC (storming crow). My best advice is to camp out in BA, duel a bunch of other classes and level stamina as much as you can. Have a great one fellow Sorc!

    Oh, and Blade of darkness, yes, highly suggested to learn how to incorporate this. It's a good ability have going at the start of a duel. Extra damage can do a mild CC if it lands. Throw it in your execute combo for style points ;)
     
    #8 PeaceInChaos, Jul 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
    Flex556 likes this.
  9. Flex556

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    You said it.
    I'll try that DoD setup against my friend.
    If I can catch him I can usually get the win but if we start with tons of distance to start it's just a hurry and lose situation because I'll gas long before I catch him.
     

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