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PvP/PK: Remove on-hit karma and other suggestions.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by IDzer0, May 18, 2020.

  1. Stealthe

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    Welcome to massive multiplayer online gaming.
    Not that karma bombing is my thing but the current system is a pretty decent middle ground.Their is no perfect solution for griefing and karma bombing because that would ultimately be asking to make the game single player.
     
    #21 Stealthe, May 19, 2020
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  2. sajdas

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    I mean, just go to arsha, last time i checked you wont lose a single karma point there and its also fit how you want the game - rule by might.
     
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  3. IDzer0

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    First of all, everyone who just said anything related to griefing in this post... Learn what griefing is and then start throwing that word around. It's a pity that nowadays the players sometimes behave worse than kids, seriously... No offence, but honestly... You don't want someone griefing you according to the actual term griefing. Study on this term first - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer

    Remember it once and for all - there's nothing like MY SPOT as your name IS NOT WRITTEN ANYWHERE THERE.

    Why would I like them to remove on-hit karma and introduce flagging system? With that you can safely remove someone from the spot even if it costs losing a bit more time. Stubborn people will just lose money getting up with Elion's Tears and if you want to teach someone a lesson (read: know their place) nothing will have more impact. If their wallet gonna handle it - sure, go on. I love dealing with such pests and so far I know that some GMs are punishing toxic people hard (submitted few tickets here and there).

    Heard about server logs?
     
  4. Muhaha

    Muhaha Valkyrie 62 NA

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    Griefing: "A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game (trolling), using aspects of the game in unintended ways.[1] A griefer derives pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users, and as such is a particular nuisance in online gaming communities"

    Removing Karma from hitting someone, would allow griefing. Not only could it be used to annoy and irritate people, but could be used in an 'unintended' way. Such as a Zerker, flagging, grabbing you, tossing you into a **** ton of mobs and getting you killed to mobs. Making you lose exp and gems with no consequences.
    It would straight up make more people act like shitters. Imagine grinding some late game mobs, then randomly being knocked-down out of no where, then perma down smashed until mobs kill you.
    Like dropping gear, this would also allow way too much room for the karma system to be abused.

    I'm sure they could implement player's pvp kill count pretty easy though.
     
    o0ABC0o likes this.
  5. Phoenixxx75

    Phoenixxx75 Lahn 61 NA

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    Not a game that many would bother investing time.
     
  6. Phoenixxx75

    Phoenixxx75 Lahn 61 NA

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    Yes it seems like a huge double standard to me. They want to be able to attack any player at will but hate the idea of those players refusing to leave. They are the ones karma bombing, they are doing it to themselves.
     
    sajdas likes this.
  7. Stealthe

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    Its true,if they want to kill anyone who they see grinding in the same spot as they are thats why the made Arsha...deccing is also a way to go as well.Ive never had an issue with anyone trying to karma bomb me,I only play on Arsha and even on Arsha ive never pk'd anyone who farmed where I was,I let them attack me first and then pk or just go to a different rotation.Luckily on Arsha however rarily do I go to a different rotation because they always attack me and at that point now I just pk them continuously while grinding the same spot
     
    #27 Stealthe, May 20, 2020
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
  8. farsay

    farsay Mystic 62 NA

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    Nope, the system works, go arsha or gtfo lol for real
     
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  9. Stealthe

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    Exactly,if your so hardcore and want to pk go to Arsha and see who is really the carebears
     
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  10. Factorial

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    This is creating more problems than we started with. I agree that people who kill others should be punished, but them losing gear at such a rate and scope is absurd. Do you know how hard it is to gear up in BDO?

    Also, with this idea, you make it easier to grief others since on-hit karma is a deterrent and makes all acts of aggression accountable.

    Checkmate.
     
  11. Netreiam

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    The greatest contribution in this thread is someone mentioning creating a sub 50 char to "grief" people at bher.

    Sound like a great way to inflict pain on people.

    Which is what PKers like most right? :)
     
  12. PancakeRift

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    Everyone is so friendly on Arsha... Its full of carebears lmao
     
  13. IDzer0

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    Seems like that unintented way in your opinion is that grind spots which are generally available for everyone are assigned to the person who is farming there, is it?
    Really... Who is spreading such childish ways of playing MMOs nowadays... It's a fact that there always been differences between players, be it their stats, DPS and/or else. You win, you stay, you lose you either go or start driving the opponent mad by staying there - there's no griefing here, it is called KS and it stands for Kill Stealing which is still within the mechanics of the MMO game. It always been like that. If you would like to get rid of someone from the spot which is analogically the same when you need to defend it, removing on-hit karma will be advantageous for both sides of such conflict.

    Removing on-hit karma would not allow griefing (I believe I said plenty enough about it above already). Same for killing another person with the help of nearby monsters - if the game allows PvP it's not falling beyond the game mechanics as well. The game/devs need to improve its/their approach towards party playing instead of making it more solo than ''massive'' (if you know what I mean). If the spots would provide more Exp and loot while playing with someone and even more while playing by 5 people, everyone would change their attitude towards this game.
    It's a pity that the game cannot utilise the best mechanics that a perfect MMO should be, like mob kiting, where the tank is provoking the mobs to attack him, where DDs were flanking them, healers and supports would do their job as well. Ahh sorry... This game does not know what are support healer classes... Forget about it, because we have swords, knifes and magic with Tekken-like mechanics...
     
  14. Vortexii

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    Sounds like someone can't play nice with others.

    Also sounds like someone is to much of a coward to practice what they preach and live on Arsha.
     
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  15. Muhaha

    Muhaha Valkyrie 62 NA

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    I never said grind spots weren't for everyone. I'm just saying your logic is flawed, it could be abused in multiple different ways.

    People do play like that, its a video game, what do you expect.

    Walking up into a grind area that is currently taken, killing mobs, and not leaving because you think you deserve that spot more than someone else.. Sounds like a shitter thing to do. Thats like walking up to someones urinal that they're pissing in, standing next to them, and pissing in the same urinal. So no, its not called 'kill stealing', its called being twat.

    Kill Stealing: In multiplayer video games, particularly in MOBAs, first-person shooters, MMORPGs and MUDs, kill stealing is the practice of obtaining credit for killing an enemy when another player has put more effort into the kill. ~again, taking mobs they haven't touched, isn't kill stealing.

    Yeah, removing karma on hit can allow griefing, even laid out the definition for you.

    Yes, it is a true combat game. There is barely even roles, accept it, move on, play the game or play a different game. If you wanna grind with people, ask for a party, or go grind group content like trees or gyfin.

    MMO: A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG, or more commonly, MMO) is an online game with large numbers of players, often hundreds or thousands, on the same server. MMOs usually feature a huge, persistent open world, although some games differ. ~MMOs are just another way of saying a **** ton of players play that game online. (before anyone tries to claim RPG and MMO mean the same thing, click MMO, i even linked it. States multiple different game types, such as First Person Shooters too.)

    You're talking about old school RPGs, that had roles in every aspect, if you want to play that type of thing, go PvP. The concept of roles in this game, aside from PA, are pretty subtle. Go play a witch/wiz, you'd probably enjoy it since they're a class that has the closest thing to a legit role. Heals, PA (the center point of node war and siege), Speed spell, ranged debuffs, n such.
     
    #35 Muhaha, May 20, 2020
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
  16. Ozonek

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    No. If you want to kill people on spots, then you're welcome to play on Arsha.

    The whole "duel for spot" thing going in BDO is garbage and you want to put it on another level.

    If I'm on the spot first, then it's my spot. I used my PvE buffs, drop buffs and I will sure as hell stay there as long as I want and I will not engage in a duel with a full PvP buffed guy wasting my time. I will definitely Karma Bomb you like hell.

    Of course, if someone else is in a spot, I will just leave to look for another one or change the channel.

    If you really want someone out, you can guild war, but of course this can have interesting consequences.
     
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  17. woots

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    removing on hit karma would actualy allow griefing as [whatever amount] of players would be able to poke indefinitely any player grinding.
    That actualy is beeing a little parasite doing that just for the sake of beeing annoying.

    having mobs kill a player when you lower enough the health via pvp also is griefing as you on purpose do that to have the "killed" player suffer from pve penalty.

    Both things are just toxic behavior. Especialy in BDO where fight only are the result of whatever personal meaningless pride. because grind spot occupation disagreement.
    Its hard to have more childish reason to fight another player, even more when a good part of them doesnt want to be bothered with that pvp clown show.

    Not saying you also are trying to use something that is obviously not made to solve how bad pve grind spot are managed to allow any players willing to, to progress.
    Or its just the sh#ttiest design ever created if you consider "conflict" in a area where players are most of the time in a full unbalance situation because that's progression area.
     
  18. Vanraven

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    Yep I remember those days. Toi was on lockdown by the top guild in C2. Peasants were only allowed on the first four floors for exp. Then at one point AL was on lock down. All raid bosses were on lockdown. It was really hard to get exp or even get gear if you werent part of the two major warring alliances/clans. BDO is definitely carebear in comparison. But don't tell BDO players that!
     
  19. Quinra

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    I've seen a lot of people complain about the karma system and karmabombing, but there are a couple things that I only rarely see being discussed when talking about OW PVP:
    - Class balance. Some classes are inherently better at small scale PvP than others (and let's not talk about nodewars, because it's its own seperate thing and I believe not at all related to general OW PVP that karma has an effect on). There are a handful of classes that are practically a free kill in 1v1, unless they have a massive GS difference or the other party is not even paying attention. Hell, there's even a class that pretty much incapable of defending her spot. And speaking of GS difference...
    - GS brackets. Thanks to the GS brackets, there are a much larger difference between two GS that at first glance should be much closer together. But that normally shouldn't be that big of a deal, since most OW PVP regarding spots would happen with people of similar GS, right? Well...
    - "World balance" (don't know how to phrase it better). While the BDO world is pretty big, it's not that big, and the decent spots will scale down even to just a handful. And it doesn't help that for some reason PA loves giving incentive for highly geared players to go grind at spots meant for lower GS people: just look at the infinite potion event for crying out loud.

    Until these issues are adressed nobody will convince me that people complaining about Karma don't want to just steamroll other players who can't fight back without a consequence.
     
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  20. TaoMachine

    TaoMachine Striker EU

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    Just go Arsha.

    Problem solved.
     
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