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Ranger Class DEAD! TY KAKAO and Pearl Abyss

Discussion in 'Ranger' started by odar, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. d00mR

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    May be you forgot for the Zerk vs Zerk part but you are supposed to have Protective Area for 8 seconds and you are not supposed to get CCed for that time and usually before that time is over Rangers are dead because there is a list of classes that can get to them from 2 miles away and oneshot them. Which again makes your argument INVALID
     
  2. Rysingmoon

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    You listed a couple of classes which seem to be an even greater threat than a Ranger. Removing grab KD and ranged knock down from Ranger,
    which is currently considered one of the more weaker classes, would probably put her over the edge. Consider also that Ranger is only perceived as a "threat" due to the AP scaling when her AP is greater than 260. Otherwise it cannot hurt anybody from distance.

    I also do not quite understand why you consider a ranged KD, where it would take roughly 3...3.5 seconds for a ranger to "jump in" and deal noticeable damage with her awakening, a far bigger problem (for you) than any close ranged KD, where it is guaranteed that the whole combo can be performed to the opponent when it is lying on the ground. I experienced, that a Mystic knocked down with Qcancel stands up again after 1.5 seconds. Other classes will be KDed for a longer duration. Usually its roughly 3 seconds. There is rarely a chance to successfully KD an experienced player in 1v1 (due to movement and resist), and if, the distance is often too far to close up and pull out an awakening combo in due time before the opponent stands up again. If you fail that by a few milliseconds, or her down smash or other CC fails, she is dead.

    Thus, from the view point of a ranger, the ranged KD is not at all OP.

    For grab in general, not just for a Ranger, I can agree - and I would not care at all. Perhaps a mechanic that counters it would be helpful, for example, an attack skill perfectly timed may disable the grab.
     
  3. Rayin

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    Because you say so. So class balance is reducted to exactly 50 mages from one side and 50 mages from another one, to rotate the PA perfectly with every guild member and there are never some moments where you're not protected.

    In fact, even Sov, Enemy, Snake and so on, have the perfect amount of Witch and Wizard, Valks and the right party composition. Even in GvG it's like that, because is well known that every guild has exactly the same amount of Wizard and Witches and we're all fighting in perma PA.

    Ok dude.
     
  4. d00mR

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    In fact only those guilds can be used for comparison when you decide class balance, because only players in that guilds know how to play in 1vs1, small scale and zerg. Everything outside of that doesn't matter. And every Ranger in this game will gladly give his grab KD and swap it for SA.
    PS: When it comes to class balance only top PVP players and guilds can give a valid opinion. Everything rest ( half decent players to plebs ) shouldn't be allowed to speak on that matter.

    PS: you don't need perfect ammount of wiz/witch you need around then for 100 man guild, because the fight is over in less than 20 sec everything else is finishing leftovers
     
  5. Rayin

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    Grab is one of the strongest stools, be protected or unprotected, it is because goes through SA & FG and often through i-frames too due desync, so a KD in there is exaggerated.

    A Ranged KD is a problem when you're fighting in mass, it doesn't have to be the Ranger itself to make you die, since you can't use your Emergency Escape and the CC last 4 seconds and not always is casted from miles - but even in that scenario is still over the top - you're gonna die or you're going to be surrounded no matter what, something that doesn't occur with a simple stiffness for example, as you can recover faster, there's a limited reaction time before a stiffened target regain control and simply this game is burdened with desync, so if a CC last less there's also the chance that your target can avoid any sort of damage because it desynced behind you and you were using skills with a frontal cone as hitbox, missing therefore the opportunity to hit him.
    With KD in that scenario, even if you miss the first skill due to desync, you can chain more because he's still on ground. And i'm not talking about you Ranger specifically, but i'm talking about anyone.

    In 1 vs 1 it may be fine, i never discussed that as 1 vs 1 some issues are less noticeable or are non-existant, but in mass some stuffs are gamebreaking and the lack of protection just enhanced that aspect.

    Perfect, then don't post. I would've appreciated your opinion but seems like you excluded yourself after being the typical guy that doesn't bother to speak about mechanics and prefers to blame it on a lack of skill, when arguments have been provided.

    And i was sarcastic about Sov, Enemy and Snake having the perfect number of Witch and Wizards.
     
  6. Rysingmoon

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    Unfortunately, there´s currently no perfect amount of Rangers which would be able to counter this situation, with or without ranged KD. How long does it take you to realize that Ranger is not the problem.
     
  7. Rayin

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    Hey, if we're going to blame it on roles i want a real role for Valks, Warriors and Tamers and on top of that i hope they'll keep Ninja/Kuno/Sorc as they are without balancing anything, as they're considered "Assassins" class from their respective fanbase and that's the only answer you get.
    It's totally ok if a Ninja with 253 AP takes off 70% of your HP with 305 DP through a Serpent Ascension while other classes have to do 3 skills to do that and a 4th to kill you.
    They must be able to kill any other class even in a 1 vs 5 fight, that's their role.

    There's no issue with the current class balance.
     
  8. d00mR

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    indeed but sadly you are a half decen't pleb with half decent gear in a half decent T1 NW guild. You never experienced end game PVP and end game Sieges. Balancing the game around your opinion will hurt the end game players who put years in learning the game and be good at it, which will ruin the balance then palyers will reroll or quit the game which will hurt the PVP, which on the other hand will hurt the game population etc etc etc ...
     
  9. d00mR

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    problem in ninjas is that they can dissengage after doing this with protective mobility .... which is not okey for an assassin class. Assassin classes are supposed to pick up ppl who are out of postion, not running into the zerg
     
  10. Rayin

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    Are you done with your "Hurr durr"? if yes, stay here and bathe in some knowledge, take a seat.

    That's the answer you get from Ninjas, seems like a Deja Vu. Oh wait, even Rangers are supposed to CC people from miles with a KD and it's ok if you sit on your back like a turtle for 4 seconds - at least according to their fanbase - you're bad if in mass they manage to hit you even if you couldn't even see the ranger in the group because there were 20 more characters in front of him.

    I wonder how people can die to Witch and Wizard with that logic, in fact Wizard often teleports on you to use half their toolkit, mmmh. Seems a l2p issue to me, but then again every person in RBF dying to a Wiz must be bad. Or in NW. Or in Siege. Mmmh.
     
  11. d00mR

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    wizz ofthen teleport to you because they can ult and kill you and the other 20 ppl around you in 1 skill.. And what knowledge and what seat there is nothing here you can teach me of, actually you need atleast 2 years of practice and wearning to get to my point and leave the game after that
     
  12. Rayin

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    Yeah i can see that, in fact you gave a better insight to that thread, that often random forum users do not read posts, cherry pick one and come with "Hurr durr" to discuss technical posts with nothing technical to say.

    I wish i was like you.
     
  13. d00mR

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    ye i feel like i'm talking to the TV. It is just bla bla bla bla stuff without cover
     
  14. Rayin

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    Then don't quote me, easy. When you want to discuss about the in game mechanics and not about me, you can.
     
    eitheldin likes this.
  15. d00mR

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    you lack the ingame knowledge to discuss ingame mechanic
     
  16. Rayin

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    Yeah, you shown me with so many facts that i don't even know where to begin with. You know how to play the game, it's so obvious:

    "You're supposed to block, dodge or SA or have 2000 Wiz & Witch to PA you in every scenario, even if you organized a 90 vs 90 platoon fights with randoms" - d000mR 2018

    When we're speaking about mass PvP.
     
    #257 Rayin, Aug 28, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
  17. Rysingmoon

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    To be honest, Rayin, it seems you are the one that cherry picks some technical issue with the game. In my point of view, playing Ranger since beginning, there is absolute no issue with a ranged KD and the Ranger grab. However, there are A LOT of other technical issues with skills, MP and Stamina consumption, lacking defense and many bugs that severely hampering the class not only during PvP, but also in PvE (the activity you do 99% of the time).

    Honestly, form the view point of a Ranger, coming to the Ranger forum and complaining about a minor issue that nobody cares about even by those who are very interested in a fair class balance you should understand that your suggestions are just futile when there are so many glaring issues with this class.

    If you are really interested in class balance, please first support us Rangers for fixing their main issues first. Then, and only after the class has been fixed, I appreciate any discussion about minor tweaks of Ranger skills which seem to be too strong in certain circumstances - but not unless also considering any other tweaks for classes that seem to be too strong as well in the same manner.

    For example, you could start with a bug report, that describes that a Ranger will be frequently disarmed from his weapon when CCed from a mob. After that, being CCed, the character seems to be uncontrollable for about 3 seconds. If you press tab to draw your bow or sword again in this situation, nothing happens. You try it again and nothing, only noticing, that after three seconds your bow will be equipped and immediately unequipped. :) This is certainly annoying. Guess what, a couple month ago this bug has been reported by a Witch. A few weeks later it has been fixed by PA. The same bug exists for ages for the Ranger and has not been fixed so far.

    Or, that with the Stamina changes paired the the damage nerf for WotW and other skills, the effectiveness when grinding Ronaros for example at my level and my gear dropped to 35%. Formerly, I was able to kill a pack of Ronaros with 11 WotW, taking 5 seconds with Stamina and MP consumption of about 80%. Now I only can pull out 8 to 9 WotW before either MP or Stamina is exhausted, and only 50% of the pack has roughly 60% of the HP left. The others still have more. It takes me now, a full awakening combo and two salves of WotW to kill a pack of Ronaros. Yesterday, I met a Wizard here, and he asked me what the heck I am doing here, seriously. (With buffs and Crystals I have about 250 AP not counting Monster damage from TET Kutum nor renown bonus). The Wiz by the way had 245 AP (probably sheet AP, so likely plus 20..35 more with buffs and crystals) and was able to kill a pack Ronaros in one go.

    Or, that with the MP consumption. Any heavier mob requires you to suck potions like crazy. At Ronaros I use a total of roughly 500 large HP/MP per hour. I start grinding with 250 HP and 300 MP pots, and after 50 min I usually have to repair my gear for 170.000 silver, where I have zero HP pots left and maybe 50 to 100 MP pots.

    There are about two dozen other bugs that have never been fixed, nor did PA even respond to it. Fix these first, and we will appreciate to talk about the other issues.
     
    #258 Rysingmoon, Aug 30, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
    Haurion likes this.
  18. Rayin

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    I'm not cherry picking issues and i'm not stating that your class doesn't have bugs, i talk about mechanics that i can understand and are similar to the one of other classes.
    I've read your post and it gave me a better insight, but my argument didn't touch all Ranger skills and its interaction with other characters, because he may or may not be balanced with X class and struggle with Y.
    I talk about grab and ranged KD, two tools that pretty much all the class i play have. Only one of those classes i played, out of all, has a Ranged KD.

    Now let's be honest: i play Wizard, but do i really need to play Wizard to talk about PA and its effects?
    PA is one of the biggest issue of mass PvP, because the more PA you have, the easier is for you to push opponents or wipe them.
    I suggest things from time to time in regard of how to improve Wizard because i have the knowledge to do so, but i didn't have to play Wizard to understand the effects of PA in 1 vs 1, small scale, mass PvP.
    The effect is the same for every class, but certainly if you apply a PA in a scenario where people with 380 RS are fighting an equal number of opponents iwht 520 RS, the latter will make a better use of PA no matter what. Same scenario, same effect for both, different outcome.

    Does Wizard needs a buff in regard of close ranged combat and mobility? yeah, we could discuss about that and get some nerfs on skills that have a damage over the top, but as you get buffs you must balance a bit things that are over the top.
    Or the other way around, as you can start to talk about PA nerf and then come up with buffs.
     
  19. Grizabella

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    Rayin is so passionate in his/her attacks that he/she is always here. This clearly means a lot to him/her. I think the saddest comment is that most Rangers have basically given up the class or caring about it since it is and has been so neglected. The fix? Re-roll to male ranger because they are not going to address Ranger when they can encourage players to re-roll and spend $$ on those weapon swaps and new costumes.

    [edit] sorry for the misspelling of your name.
     
    #260 Grizabella, Aug 30, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018

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