1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Ranger Class DEAD! TY KAKAO and Pearl Abyss

Discussion in 'Ranger' started by odar, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. Foggen

    Foggen Musa 61 NA

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    246
    If you think Stamina is worst as a Ranger I doubt how much you've played Musa since they doubled Stamina consumption on Chase.
     
  2. Rayin

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,069
    Likes Received:
    2,444
    I told you about my leader because before all those patches and renown his damage wasn't as high as now and you can't compare a 211 player with what is considered softcap.
    Even then, there are classes that at softcap kill you with 3 skills and others that use 6, which is a big difference because it means that according to that someone can come to rescue your target in time or not.
    In that lies Ranger, that can anyway CC you in KD from distance or get close and grab you for a guaranteed death as it's still KD and the grab has a huge hitbox.

    Renown just enhance this aspect, the only solution would be giving back most of protection to the least agile classes, but then who doesn't have a grab would struggle with them as surely they'll find a way to rotate SA and i-frame when it's needed, breaking once again the balance or shifting it.

    Some tweaks are needed from every side and i'm not talking about nerfing ranger and not giving anything back, but at the current state it's ridicolous what 5 rangers can do in the backlines, they can basically negate to melee to get close.
     
  3. Grizabella

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    516
    TBH- Musa is not a class I have leveled up. But if it plays like Ranger, I would make the same case for Musa.
     
  4. Grizabella

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    516
    Ok- so we are into serious theory crafting here.

    In the real world, when the longbow was invented and deployed on the battlefield it shredded enemies who did not adapt to counter it. History is filled with such innovations, from the crossbow in China to the mounted archers of the Huns to heavy cavalry to the Blitzkrieg attack of tanks and planes.

    In this game, the balance SHOULD allow a clear advantage to each class, as well as clear weaknesses, so that the winner of any multiplayer engagement is the one who deploys their forces smartest and has the best players, NOT the one who deploys the most [insert your OP class of the month here].

    I view this like Rock, Paper Scissors, Lizard, Spock (Google it) but with more options than that. Each class beats some class badly but each has a class that beats it badly. What I think has happened is that they have listened to a lot of complaining and decided that they will just make every class the same for the most part. Hence the changes in CCs and SAs that resulted in all of us having the same number of skills with them.

    I have a knife block in my kitchen with a set of good knives that I have assembled over the years. I would never use my Sushi knife to debone Chicken and I would never stock it with 15 of the same type of knife. Each one has a purpose and each one is different and unique and good at something the others is not.

    TL:DR-
    When everybody is super, no one will be.
     
    Haurion and Smilence like this.
  5. Rayin

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,069
    Likes Received:
    2,444
    Well, it's not like there's room to outplay a Ranger when you and other 4 people just shoot blasting gust, WOTW from distance and dash back, i mean, yeah, if we want a balance with role i'd be fine but then we should also tweak the base stats of each character and make some tanky as hell, some able to burst down anything that isn't a pure tank, some being debuffers and dealing less damage, some being buffers and dealing more damage, but then we'd change the core of the game.

    I wouldn't mind to play a specific role if this game was balanced for roles, but it's not. That's why you have classes with 2000 abilities and some that don't.
    The day they'll make a patch to define specific roles i'll be able to choose freely my class or change it accordingly, but as it stands right now it's more rock, scissor, paper, laser and hammer, with laser being able to destroy rock & paper and deflecting on scissors and hammer being able to beat up scissors & rock but doing no damage on paper, so basically rock has a lot of counters, scissors has a bit less and paper too.
     
  6. Silsti

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    191
    nibba stop grasping this bad

    blasting spam off 5 people will get you as it should get you kd'd cuz its 5 people ccing you, wotw has no distance and dash is shitty ass iframe every 3s **** pls stop posting in ranger forums when you kno literally **** about the class you mention
     
  7. Rayin

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,069
    Likes Received:
    2,444
    From a crazy distance, you keep forgetting that. With the strongest CC in game that disables your V.
    Yeah, i probably don't know anything, kk, thanks for your valuable feedback.
     
  8. Silsti

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    191
    Keep shitposting bruh, thanks for your valuable input in issues you have no knowledge about.
     
  9. Rayin

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,069
    Likes Received:
    2,444
    I wrote WOTW because i was talking in Discord while doing sparring so i mixed up names, do you really want to argue with me about ranged skills because i named one skill that wasn't ranged while i had in mind Shotgun?

    Gonna beat up whoever thinks that Slashing the dead is Grave Digging and viceversa, because now i've read the mistake i made.
    It invalidates my point completely, i see.
    You got me, i was lying and Ranger is a complete melee class, actually if i get hit from miles is not with Blasting Gust, Evasive shot, Penetrating Wind and so on, it's because of desync.

    Now refer to my previous posts.
     
  10. Silsti

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    191
    I wanna argue against this shitty trend going on of people that have no dignity and jump on other classes and spew ********.
    It has been going on forever and its getting especially disgusting now that the balance storm has stopped. If you gonna argue about something at least bother to have the basics down, nobody expects you to know whatever arbitrary abbreviations of each class in your back pocket but at least put some effort to it.
    Also yeah feel free to beat up anyone including me that is doing retarded mistakes like that.

    P.S. Fix your posts and exaggerating bs like that vacuum grab and i'll retract everything here.
     
  11. Rayin

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,069
    Likes Received:
    2,444
    Yeah, you ain't still referring to my previous post.
    And i didn't come in here saying "HURRR DURRR RANGER IS OP HE'S ABLE TO MELT ME WITH 190 AP PLS NERF", but if you want to read it like that your problem, i tried to argument at my best and i tried to discuss as civil as i can, if you have problems with that and are triggered keep being triggered, i'll just go ahead and ignore you or trigger you more, as you wish.

    I'm talking about toolkits and class mechanics, i didn't analyze just Ranger, now go back to read my posts and try to see it from that point of view.
     
  12. Luxea

    Luxea Ranger 61

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2017
    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    66
    You realized this is basically admission that stamina nerfs affect Ranger heavier than other classes.

    1) If you get grabbed from behind, you're not looking at your minimap enough to spot the white dots. That's not a class balance issue, that's just your own negligence.
    2) If a Ranger runs up to you and just grabs you, you are not trained to fight a Ranger. You're just a sitting duck and easy target because you do not know how to PvP against this class which does not mean this class deserves more nerfs. Next time a Ranger runs to you, you can react to it by a) iframing/blocking or b) simply running away if a) is not an option due to cooldowns.
     
    #152 Luxea, Aug 10, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  13. Silsti

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    191
    FIne let's do that then, > Ranger was the only class with vacuum grab + knockdown before the arrival of Striker and Mistik, which basically disables your V and with a enough AP means death.<

    Blatand exagerration on the vacuum part, as for KD and V which seem to be the actual main arguement you're right, that's broken, the fact that it disables that 5m iframe is really really bad. As does any other "melee" KD. Melee being in those brackets cuz the hitboxes in this game are flat out retarded.


    >His dash is as fast as Musa one and if he wants to disengage and flee good luck with catching him and in the meantime his skill multiplier are higher than some of the ones of other classes.<

    More blatand exaggeration. Get 2 of em side by side and see who is actually faster.

    >Paper defense but yeah, it's far from being garbage<

    Yep, ranger defenses sure are amazing, let me list them for you with handy-dandy links.

    Preawa:

    https://bdocodex.com/us/skill/2863/
    https://bdocodex.com/us/skill/381/

    Note that both of those have effective protection past 60-80 degrees in the air.

    Awa:

    Sblock Freebie
    https://bdocodex.com/us/skill/1874/
    https://bdocodex.com/us/skill/1856/ Freebie2electricboogaloo
    https://bdocodex.com/us/skill/1882/
    https://bdocodex.com/us/skill/1893/
    https://bdocodex.com/us/skill/1892/
    https://bdocodex.com/us/skill/1885/



    >The dash with maxed movement speed, another matter are those rangers that jumps on you like an ISIS member eager to blow up with you, but a ranger that wants to kite can kite for good and has a really fast dash.<

    All MS does for dash is reduce that little animation that occurs between front dashes. The rangers that jump on you are expendable regardless of their gear. Ranger kiting out of 1v1 is actually fleeing.

    On stamina :

    Everything in preawakening is using this https://bdocodex.com/us/skill/2860/.

    As for the very fast dash https://bdocodex.com/us/skill/1874/ note that the stamina used is a static 150 and consider that if you lob a spear at a fleeing ranger and one at a fleeing mae you'll get 90% the ranger and 10% the mae (if you're lucky with chase gaps). Oh and ranger backdash is the same speed as front dash but pretty much consumes double that stamina for the same distance and a chance of sblocking, low as it may be.

    Also note that the defenses in preawa are nil and as such the class relies purely on positioning to survive in pretty much any situation, considering its melee defenses are static.

    Next are the HUGE texts which have some points about class core and uniqueness, changing KD to bound on blasting would actually be fine. As for the pen kzarka ranger bossman, pretty null arguement considering that any pen bossman can tear ass up regardless of distance with relative ease. Block melting in 2s is another exaggeration, as is the tired vacuum pull you keep referencing, it's nigh impossible to grab a ninja or a sorc even as a ranger fyi.

    A tidbit on "safe free damage" ; The famed shotgun has actually zones of effect that matter, spamming it from afar with only the edge hitting is only good for killstealing poke aka 5% or lets say 10% if you're geared, if the full zone is on then literally a dash and a half of any class will cover that distance while ranger is being in recoil. Penetrating wind does actual damage every 6s since it was nerfed. Blasting gust spam is only good for killing people who forgot they got cooking clothes on.

    In closing, changing blasting kd to bound or stun would be fine, grab isn't a vacuum, ranger's defense is positioning and ranged pressure and as such if you nerfed ranged damage you'd have to give it actual defenses. Also why the **** is the melee burst locked behind 21s and 25s?

    Oh yeah, the "imagine what 5 rangers could do" is pretty dumb as well considering we're in the height of this flanker epidemic, pretty sure you can send a couple of the myrriads of stealthies around to onetap those rangers lul.

    Pardon the shitty format, had wrote some more stuff but insert ate it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯
     
    stalas, Alcathoe Noctis and Luxea like this.
  14. Rayin

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,069
    Likes Received:
    2,444
    I didn't admit anything, i said that you call it out more often because it changed your playstyle completely since the release of Awa that forced you to go Melee more often.

    1) Yeah, in mass is certainly easy to fight people and look behind. It's my neglicence if i'm KD'ed with a grab or an attack from miles.
    2) You fail to realize that not every class is mobile in the same way, not everyone is a Musa, not everyone has i-frames in its main movement skills and that ranger grab has a huge-hitbox, therefore even if you i-frame it most of the time you desync in it's grab and can still attack as it happens with Striker, except that Striker has a grab that is much longer frame-lenght wise and therefore you can notice it when you i-framed it correctly but the server thought you got caught nonetheless.
    I have fun when a Striker grabs me during my i-frame, because if i'm stuck in its animation i can get out of it with Grave Digging if i'm playing War or Shower Katana if i'm playing Ninja, it's a bug caused by desync, it happens, it's even funny to see.

    So the grab of Ranger doesn't have the wider hitbox in game? only Lahn has it "longer", but that's in a straight line.
    If Ranger doesn't have the most effective and fast grab (even animation wise) who has that record? Valkyrie with her T-rex grab? Striker that fails more times that you can notice?

    I already said that i exaggerated on purpose on this part, because Maewha and Musa were the only class that could kite endlessly and before the Stamina consumption change, Ranger was probably the only class that could do it as well in the long distance due her dash being quite fast and really well chainable, while classes like Warrior if didn't have any target in front of them, could do it due to movement skills such as Charging Thrust that have a better sprint on the short distance but are plagued by collision on target locking you in a spot upon hitting something.

    Yeah but what are you proving with those links? they changed the skill of every class, some lost SA, some lost FG, some i-frames have been converted into SA, making the latter weaker as they do not nullify the damage anymore and the caster now can be affected by several slows, dots or grabbed.
    Mind you, they didn't adjust or extend the protection for the classes that had lingering SA, so now half of their skills with SA are unprotected at the beginning of the animation and in the end making those easy to CC no matter in which range they are, so try to imagine how hard can be to disengage while several sources try to CC you.
    If PA wanted to turn down that Superhero meta you can safely say that they managed to do it with certain classes and failed with some others. And i'm not talking about Kuno/Ninja/Sorc, there are more that can effectively engage and disengage in mass.

    Again, Ranger dash is faster compared to the one of other classes and can be chained better, therefore is hard to catch a Ranger in the short-term or medium-term run unless you're helped by someone. And yeah, probably he would end up out of stamina at some point, but so would do its opponent and in the meantime a Ranger would have 1 or 2 occasions to try to CC its opponent from the distance with Blasting Gust or dish out some damage to try to get some room to breathe again.

    Note that Headchase III from Warrior consume exactly the same amount of stamina as your WS and since you have to regen the block often you're bound to use it often even out of cooldown, which means no i-frame.
    And note also that if you swap stance and go Sword & Shield, walking with your shield up quickly drains up stamina, so the moments to recover it effectively are when you're standing still, issue that for example Valkyrie doesn't have as she can roam freely with her shield up and do also lateral movements while in block.
    And the moments to regen your block are when you're outside of it standing still or walking without block.

    That's exactly not an exaggeration, as my guild leader melts my block with one shotgun and damages me through and another guildie with 246 AP with 3 Shotgun just destroyes it and i have 294 DP in DR.
    Let's admit are not 2 seconds, how much does it take to perform 3 shotguns? 2.5 seconds? 3? i don't think any class can dish out 3 skills in 0.5 seconds even with perfect cancels, so the reaction time is what it is and multiple hits on block that isn't backpedal trigger the block itself forcing you in that position unless you cancel it with another skill or swap weapon accordingly, but this opens new possibilities to be CC'ed as the weapon swap block isn't reliable and upon breaking a block with many classes there's a "stunned" animation which leaves you open for about a second (or more if you can't regen it effectively disengaging after it, as it keeps breaking), less on some classes, more on others.

    Also a Ninja can be grabbed during Shower Katana as it doesn't float anymore and keeps you locked in a long animation and can be grabbed even in Oni-Shadow when it's invisible if you saw where he went or during ghost step, in fact it can be grabbed during many skills including Serpent Ascension but this last one does float and it's its main damaging skill so i wouldn't recommend it unless you can chain your grab with a skill that has FG effectively.
    Sorc is a bit more tricky to grab due her i-frame-SA dodge her ability to chain those with fast CC, but i believe that Ranger has easier times to grab her compared to a Valk if you take into account what i said and i still stand behind my words in regard of its range.

    So let's make a quick recap:

    a. Multiple skills can trigger a static block even if you wanted to block just the first two hits, making harder to release that state especially against multiple source of damage (Did you ever asked to yourself why Ninja do not use their Q block and prefer to chain i-frames even from the distance?)
    b. Breaking a block doesn't take too much anymore for ANY class unless the opponent is really geared compared to you, since blocks scale with DR and everyone can use Urugon and other sources of DR (Crystals and such);
    c. Breaking a block in some classes more than others triggers a semi-stunned animation that lasts around 1 second where you're vulnerable and in case you don't have i-frames or reliable SA to chain altogether, you can be locked in that animation as your block doesn't regen 0 --> 100 but recovers gradually from 0.

    Man, in no way i want to nerf your class at the point that it becomes unplayable or unfun for you, but at the current state of the game, as you said for BG, KD is exaggerated especially if you look at other classes that have Stiff on their ranged skills, which means that the reaction time to catch anybody with it is much lower than what a Ranger has, then if you imagine that there are some classes with no Ranged skills at all (Mistik, Lahn, Striker, Tamer) or medium-ranged skills (Ninja/Kuno) you can guess how truly powerful is that tool.
    Ranged damage it's exaggerated but that's Renown's fault, not of your class per se.
    A KD grab is exaggerated too, as Grab is one of the strongest tools along with pulls.

    What i want is a tiny bit of balance compared to what we have now and i believe that if they'd buff other classes blindly without taking into account the changes made untill now, we'd have once again classes in perma SA or i-frames that cannot be defeated by grabless classes or no balance at all, with classes being way more versatile than others in every situation and others being confined only for specific moments in which they don't even shine.
     
  15. rootborn

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    19
    no more question :/
     
  16. Rayin

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,069
    Likes Received:
    2,444
    Do you realize that acting that immature is exactly what ruins the communication on forum and cripples the feedback that PA receives from us?

    "Hurr durr u play that ez pz class, u shouldn't talk, just git gud!!!"

    I played other classes too, but i haven't them past 56, so what? do the classes i played extensively invalidate my points because you say so compared to someone that just play a class or has it at level 57?
     
  17. LightsOut

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2016
    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    337
    @Rayin dude you are so clueless about Ranger that I don't even know which part of your posts to quote. Every single thing you said in this thread is so far from true that I cant even begin to argue. Please level a 61 ranger and lets PvP. You can show me those Ranger powers you are talking about.
     
    rootborn likes this.
  18. Rayin

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,069
    Likes Received:
    2,444
    Yeah, whatever, if is so far from true try to find a part where to begin with and quote me, other than that i'm not interested into discussions about who has the biggest e-peen.
     
  19. rootborn

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    19
    sry if im so offensive against u but i read the most bulls*** from you and top of that u play classes like striker ninja wiz???
    i dont even know what do u do in a ranger topic?
    i talk a lot with other rangers about the class, and how we can handle situations with the current state but never opened a QQ topic how nerfed rangers are.
    but if a strikerninjawiz talks so much sh*t how op rangers are is just a joke. sry. no value of your opinion in my eyes.

    flooding the forums with false feedback (from u) helps no one only hurt others.
    try to help striker, ninja or wizard topics with your feedback.
     
    Haurion likes this.
  20. Rayin

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    2,069
    Likes Received:
    2,444
    My main is Warrior if you've read through my posts, which you didn't.
    Oh no, i play another "easy" class that has been overpowered for an year despite the fact that during the first year was supbar, shame on me.

    Sorry, but i don't need your comprehension, i'd rather stick to discuss with people that have to say something and probably can show me Ranger POV better than you as you're not capable of nor have the tools as you've shown.
    Despite the initial issue i appreciate more a Stilsti that took time to post something decent, that i can disagree with, rather than people that come in any discussion with their hurr durrs, so spare your time and painkiller if i give you an headache, being considered by you or acknowledged by anyone who doesn't have anything to say it's the last of my concerns.
    You can also like each other as much as you wish, it won't change anything, it's not like i'll be disheartened and i'll stop to post.
     

Share This Page