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Recent Sorc nerfs are foreboding

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by Nexius, Jan 24, 2019.

  1. Nexius

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    With the nerf to abilities no longer giving frontal guard on cooldown, we lose our Dark Flame frontal guard loop. Unfortunately this is exclusive to sorceress and doesnt extend to other classes with similar mechanisms. The intent at least from a players perspective isnt to exploit or abuse abilities on cooldown for maximum effectiveness, but to try and find some meaningful way to stay mobile and avoid near unavoidable and relentless engagement from certain foes.

    Perhaps this functionality of Dark Flame wasnt intended. Perhaps recent changes soon to come warrants it. Whatever the case may be I would like to point out that the class is still very difficult. Requiring not only the most amount of gear arguably but an almost unprecedented amount of knowledge and practice. I say all this because iframing may be what identifies the class, but by no means does it allow us to do everything. Everyday an engagement is won or lost by the deep understanding that you cant dip into iframes whenever you want at whatever pace you wish. There are consequences for misuse and often times you will find yourself on the backfoot unable to do..... anything.

    If you're one of those players who doesnt play this class. If you are one to claim its op simply because your friends allow you to believe so and you accept no other view. I emplore you to take the opportunity to understand what it actually takes to pilot the class with the god like efficiency you claim every sorc has access to. Im willing to wager what you come across more often than not are players who stumble to pilot the class, and those who face them may be even less informed and keen to those obvious mistakes. Not mistakes only punishable by a moments reaction, but mistakes that could be capitalized for excessive periods of time.

    I dislike the sorc mirror matchup for similar reasons others dislike fighting sorcs. All we seem to do is run, after a while you get to a point of impatience and before you know it the fight is over in your fit of rage. It happens. Though coming from the perspective myself, its pretty daunting and tiresome to be forced to run the entire fight, knowing most your ccs wont land and that doing anything other than running will put you at imminent risk of death.

    Im not sure where the development team gets thier feedback from but it seems likely that many players are sending in feedback about a class they'd rather just not deal with at all. Perhaps one day they will remove the iframes entirely and then what? Im honestly not sure, the closest thing I can point to is the relentless disservice done to dark knights. Once rightfully labeled over powered, they'd been left in a state of hard checks. Unable to win against strikers and mystics unless due to extreme conditions. Will sorceress see the same fate simply due to public opinion? It seems likely.

    The game had its balance issues pre cc changes but I feel like ultimately it took a turn for the worst and hasn't gotten better since. Though I was hopeful almost a year later mystics and strikers are still terrorists. Grabs are enabling those who possess them an unfair advantage which while acknowledged by the devs never was truly addressed. And it just seems that with the exception of tamer, which may be a slight oversight, every class reliant on iframes or stealth is being targeted heavily. When stalwarts like warrior and valkyrie are given buffs to damage and mobility to keep up with us and lock us down. The future doesnt look so bright. I personally might quit because in all honesty there is just one very uninteractive unfair dimension of the game allowed to exist, whilst those who chose to be more freely manuevrable continually get nerfed into a state of vegetation. Soon we'll all be sitting in block, with no grab to use, no iframes to keep us safe and no stam to move.
     
    #1 Nexius, Jan 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  2. Kalade

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    inb4 Pearl Abyss reveals a male sorc class that will essentially be better than sorc in every way for that re-roll money.
     
  3. Nakuls

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    Would be awesome if we got a context reference to where these nerfs are coming from. Not that I don't believe you, but I don't scour every BDO information dump or topic to find out things. Thus I have no idea where some of these issues come from.

    Dark flame losing FG off cooldown doesn't bother me entirely... BUT It only doesn't bother me because I don't PVP.
    When I did dabble in pvp, I quickly realised that one of the only moves Sorc had to initiate a punish/trade somewhat safely was Dark Flame.

    Dark Flame itself is a sloppy move.
    It's Hard to hit on fast moving targets making it very unreliable for damage against an active player.
    It has air attack for some damn reason. Am I missing something here? but that move is not very quick to land "air attacks"
    It isn't a downsmash. It's just a move you hope blocks an attack while you recoup your strategies. So I'm unsure of what they were planning on doing with removing FG on it. But it's an over-all unnecessary nerf.
     
  4. Wollbert

    Wollbert Ranger 61 EU

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    just give me two informations to clear my mindblock
    - why do you think sorc could stay as it is, while every other class got a hard hit already.
    - and why do you think you deserve it or what is so different in learning sorc combos compared to other classes?
    and yes they are forboding. there will be more nerfs. if you let the sorc rest for a while and look at the game in a whole, you might get the answers on your own.
    and byside the irrelevant nerfs like violation or this frontguard skill, there will be something that hurts you, like it hurts ninja the last patch.
     
    #4 Wollbert, Jan 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  5. Netreiam

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    The problem is that all classes in BDO are too dependent on mechanics that often can’t be properly countered. It’s why LSA was removed and why chase stamina was nerfed. It’s not like none of these classes needed skill, or couldn’t be killed, but the mechanic itself could not be countered.

    Even in it’s heyday, I didn’t think LSA made valk universally OP because if someone grabbed them they were dead just like any other class. It took skill to be able to avoid a grab, and it’s not like you could just attack all the time because you had to stop and block to refresh the buff. Not to mention that you still take damage from back attacks.

    Sounds similiar to the arguments against calling sorc OP right?

    But the problem was that for the classes that didn’t have grab it WAS OP. All they could do was hope that the valk or war ****ed up and didn’t refresh on time or have enough gear to nullify the overwhelming advantage. Just like classes now that don’t have the speed or protections to actually pressure sorc into stamina starvation.

    So PA removed them. And all of the classes suffered terribly, with valk and warrior being the hardest hit because, not only were they designed around being constantly protected and had few actual protections and slower skills than many other classes, but they also had the entire mechanic (LSA) removed instead of reduced or limited like the blader’s chase skill was.

    But did it have to be that way? Like I said, the problem was being dependent on a mechanic that couldn’t be countered, so while getting rid of the mechanic fixed the issue, it also destroyed the class to the point it needs to be remade to be truely fixed. The alternatives, and the ways that I’ve advocated for since I became aware of how huge of a problem LSA was, is to create counter mechanics and reduce the dependence classes have on their mechanic being uncounterable.



    Straight up removing the ability to chain I frames is a no-go because it would completely change the identity of the class. And I frames are by definition uncounterable so that isn’t an option either. So what that leaves is reducing dependence.

    Imo the way to balance sorc’s position in the meta without forcing all classes to become mobile, fast attacking assassins is to give sorcs better protections outside of Iframe chaining and to give them a better way to deal with block and super armor as an alternative to grab without instantly nullifying the importance of those mechanics.
     
    Karma555, R.Prescott, Eri 4 and 2 others like this.
  6. BloodLeshen

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    Not a big problem. Dark flame will have FG, Ultimate DF will have FG. The spam of DF will not which makes sense.
     
  7. fenzz

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    i'd say its a pretty big deal. wont effect 1v1 much. but in large scale when there is alot of movement involved sorcs (which already had really horrible mobility) are going to be even less mobile. we gona have to weapon swap more and stay stationary to regain stamina. which, again forces us into a more passive gameplay, and by that, making the gameplay alot more boring.

    Darkflame in itself was never a good skill since awakening was released. it does midcore damage, doesnt have CC and stuck you in animation that can easily be exploited from behind + some attacks goes through FG cuz it moves you forward. its FG movement was the only thing going for it
     
    #7 fenzz, Jan 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
    Sevyrn likes this.
  8. BloodLeshen

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    We will just have to adapt. We have invincible i-frames with SA movement already. Obviously we lack any protected skills and Darkflame added to the FG mobility and basically all we have is protected movement where other classes actually have skills with protection but dark flame has a 6 second cooldown so why should it always have FG even when not in cooldown?

    This will make sorc somewhat harder to play in terms of mobility but are we really scared of a challenge? We are sorcs..
     
  9. Ned Sheynji

    Ned Sheynji Sheynji Mystic 62 EU

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    Since a while this game seems to be stuck in a loop of rebalancing attempts that kind of make sense but not really.

    Our servers arent as good as KR servers.
    Our average player isnt as geared as the average KR player.

    But even if we try to understand some balancing changes they dont even make sense from a KR meta perspective.
    I tried to understand how taking away Sorcs DF FG could be good/necessary in the KR meta but i have little to no PvP exp with the Sorc.
    Maybe BR finally helps those people to do some proper balancing. Although not perfect what we have now in BR is very well balanced for the setting with a few exceptions. Sorc is one of the worse classes there and thats for a reason. If they wanted to nerf her in the "real" game maybe they should rethink what is going on with her there.
     
  10. fenzz

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    BR is no representation of anything since classes there lack more than 80% of their toolkit while other classes have fully protected CC skills with high modifiers

    this change wont effect sorcs too much. it just makes the gameplay alot more boring and static. just continuing the same trend since the CC changes. basically sorc became stronger(because everyone else got weaker), but alot more boring and less fun to play. its just not what it used to be.

    and by continusly nerfing her without give back any compensation or new gameplay perks and reducing our toolkit by making more skills useless (our awakening kit is reduced to TBS cancels and GRJ)

    i swear they can completely delete our entire none-awake kit and leave rabams and DOD and our gameplay wont change in the slightest. its freaking sad..
     
  11. Ned Sheynji

    Ned Sheynji Sheynji Mystic 62 EU

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    Yet BR is still better balanced than the regular game and still somewhat fun despite being slow and clunky.
     
    Eri 4 likes this.
  12. BloodLeshen

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    Well balanced if all got the same gear. Else you just get 2 shotted through a warrior block by another warrior. But BR shows the importance of block and grab because that is all you need there to win. What I like about BR is the fights take longer. That is also something I liked when you dueled each other at 400gs. If you had low AP and higher DP the fights take way longer and the guy that gets the first knock down don't win the fight. At low GS you need more skill to fight than at high gear score. Soft cap you just 1 combo / in some classes 1 hit your opponent.

    I remember my duels on Age of Wulin. It easily lasted 5 -10 min a fight sometimes. With intense pvp in the air and ground swapping between 5 different skill sets and 3-4 different weapons for different purposes. BDO is fun but that game sadly ruined pvp in most other games.

    But now I'm heavy of topic^^
     
  13. Sevyrn

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    This is really frustrating for those moments where you're cornered, low on stam, and need to buy yourself an extra few seconds with DF block. I really do not understand this nerf as DF is a small frontal block cone that you're moving during. So not only is it very counterable by most classes by doing a simple side dash and ccing us from behind or straight facetanking it and grabbing us out of it, but since we're moving during it sometimes skills hit through our block anyways. Seems like a very needless senseless nerf.
     
  14. Zarkasm

    Zarkasm Mystic NA

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    yep, im leaving sorc, im tired . they hate the class ..the best thing will be to move on and just reroll to every new class they release, 90$ every 6 months is ok, archer here i go
     
  15. Ned Sheynji

    Ned Sheynji Sheynji Mystic 62 EU

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    Good old Pre awakening days.
     
  16. MinMaid

    MinMaid Maehwa 62 NA

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    They should remove iframes from sorc and add new cute face instead.
     
  17. Serendipity

    Serendipity Syllabus Sorceress 61 EU

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    Yeah, if they want to completely kill the class they should do that.
    Why don't people understand that sorc is build around these iframes and without them the class would be completely useless?
     
    Stillwaters likes this.
  18. Chandie Bang

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    it's a joke ya damn looney
     
  19. BloodLeshen

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    My sorc got the prettiest face with a scar and light freckles though cause I like humans not dolls. and with that not some demon eyes like these fake sorcs. I res-constructed that generic fat nose face completely
     
  20. Zarkasm

    Zarkasm Mystic NA

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    here is what i think...ive been thinking for a while cuz i was gonan reroll but really love my sorc, let me know your opinion

    -Mystic recently got a nerf that was very much like this, she lost frontal guard on one of the main abilities on the preawakening, mystics were freaking out and then we found out it only affected the rank 1 of the skill and that the rest of levels kept the FG...why did they do this? simple, shadow arena only uses skill rank 1, so they pretty much nerf mystic on shadow arena. dont you guys think that MAYBE this is waht happened? i surely think so since they havent really looked into balancing classes outside the arena since it came out. i surely hope so.

    there, a grain of hope <3 love ya all


    EDIT: my theory gains even more credibility since its next to another change that says " rushing crow can now be used from quickslot" do we need this? do we use this? whats the point of this? shadow arena -.- thats the only reason why they would do this, there <3
     
    Stillwaters likes this.

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