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Reduce ranged damage VS blocks

Discussion in 'PvP' started by BboydD, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. Rilok

    Rilok Ranger NA

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    Archers have more frontals than anything else so getting around that isn’t too difficult as long as you can identify when they use a frontal guard skill and just get around it as well as keeping the pressure on them. Ranger grab has nothing to do with it’s range damage.
     
  2. BboydD

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    Archer has a lot of protected cc when other classes don't have. It's an easy win classes such as all new classes since striker. It's easy to say "just look when he don't have frontal guard" did you see his range? And when you come near him he just have to rotate his SA/FG when you need to manage your shield durability and no protected cc
     
  3. Unranked

    Unranked Unranked Striker 63 EU

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    For once I agree with Bboyd, but I think only for archers or maybe rangers to. I have a 333 dp full dr build and it would not be the first time my block dissapears and I end up being cced litherally the same second I said r for a duel. ofc I dont know the ap of these guys but with my dr it is safe to say this block is ridiculously useless against such classes. my only way to fight them is wait from outside render distance until all my dashes are on cooldown, then yolo at them to grab them and if I fail, nope away as fast as possible and repeat.
     
  4. Rilok

    Rilok Ranger NA

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    So just to understand, you’re complaint is mainly with archer ? As a ranger, I was here to understand why my class should get more nerfs. If you’re speaking more on archers then I not only can come up with a justification for the class since I don’t play it, but I also do agree something should be done about archer. I however personally think it should be a reduction in ranged protection instead of nerf to damage. Rangers and archers are naturally suppose to counter shields in the same way iframe heavy classes like sorc and ninja are natural counters to ranger and archer.
     
  5. Rilok

    Rilok Ranger NA

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    As a 280+ ranger I can tell you right now you’re going on about your DP setup all wrong for fighting a ranger and possibly archer. 333DP means nothing to me especially if most of it is DR. Both ranger and Archer scale really well with AP which naturally counters DR. Classes like mystic have an easier time when geared properly because they can stack evasion a bit better then a striker. Evasion throws rangers and archers off.
     
  6. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    This is not true. It might be on paper if you read the skills but it's not in a real fight. Archer has not a single protected dmg combo nor can you spam ccs nor are you having tons of protected ccs. I am always up to backup my claims on EU.
     
  7. Unranked

    Unranked Unranked Striker 63 EU

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    you are kinda supporting the point here because block scales of dr and you are confirming dr doesnt do **** against archers and rangers. now I know I can go eva and im working at it but that isnt the case for all classes and for those its plain stupit they more or less ignore blocks.
     
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  8. BboydD

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    Did you still see a bow that can brake a shield ? You have a bow not a ballista
     
  9. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Bow with magic shots. Prove me that doesn't work irl.
     
  10. Hekki

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    That is the problem and reason why range DPS must be nerfed.
     
  11. Rilok

    Rilok Ranger NA

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    That’s my point tho. It’s not that we have too high of AP; it’s the fact that AP naturally counters DR. It’s like stacking accuracy and wondering why you can’t kill a DR build; it legit doesn’t work and that’s by design. Also, every class has a natural class counter based off these mechanics. Yours just happens to be classes that scale really well off AP which counters your DR. I’d suggest figuring out a way to lessen that hard counter than just asking for a nerf to your hard counter because your class isn’t the only one that has a hard counter. Ninjas and Sorc typically have no issue with the average ranger because they’re our hard counter.

    Let me try to explain this games mechanics in terms of counters.
    AP counters DR
    DR counters Accuracy
    Accuracy counters Evasion
    Evasion counters AP

    There’s nothing wrong with AP except everyone for some odd reason expects their high DR to counter high AP which is not how any of this works. If you were to build enough evasion however, you’d become a problem for every ranger/archer. Actually this is why evasion is low key OP because with caphras you can stack more evasion than accuracy and eventually shrug off more dmg that makes how much AP some has negligible. The top warriors, strikers, and mystics on NA are those with high caphra levels in their armor for the added evasion... and surprise surprise, it works.

    Let’s try to keep irl examples out of the mmo where there’s literal unicorns and such causally around.
     
    #51 Rilok, Jul 14, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2019
    Fateneko and Kauni like this.
  12. Hekki

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    Evasion does not counter AP because AP items have enough accuracy to counter evasion builds. And do not lie the evasion build works, it does not.

    This concept alone is just stupid because it from definition elimintate posibility of tank builds.

    It is not odd reason, it is very good reason. Damage reduction from definitions is supposed to reduce damage - it means AP. Problem is the game is broken. AP always was broken in this game. Because the range DPS good scaling with AP (what alone is stupid) just make this problem even worse. Here range DPS should be nerfed minimum by half in PvP.
    And also realistic aspect - there is no way for arrow to break shield or plate armor. Simple fact in this game archer can break heavy shield is pure absurd.
     
  13. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    That's not true tho?
     
  14. Malkontent

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    Dont sit in block fighting an archer. Just aoe near him and he dies. Problem solved.
     
  15. Rilok

    Rilok Ranger NA

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    And this is where we will just have to agree to disagree. I bring you facts and game mechanics; and you deny they work because you don’t understand them and haven’t bothered to test them. I’m curious to know what caphra level your armor is because I doubt it’s at a reasonable level. Otherwise we wouldn’t be having this convo. No DR does NOT counter AP. Only evasion counters it. Get more caphras in your armors to get a good level of evasion. It’s literally that simple. At this point I can’t help you if you don’t bother to learn the game mechanics. The real kicker in all of this is if you nerf our damage, it won’t do anything because again, AP counters DR... What I’m concerned about is rangers get another damage nerf, then my fights with classes that are my hard counters like ninja and sorc will become harder than they already are. And please stop trying to use real world examples. This is an mmo with unicorns, pegasus, magic, and monsters. But hey, I’m done. Can’t have a debate when the other side is lacking in knowledge.
    Tldr:
    1. I think archers should lose some protected cc. Make it either a cc or protection skill but not both. Their damage is fine.
    2. Range damage is fine. Stack the right amount of evasion via caphras to combat the raw ap.
    3. It’s one thing to disagree with the game mechanics; but don’t cry for nerfs when you don’t understand them to begin with. Learn them 1st then have a stronger supporting argument when you talk about nerfs so you don’t have to rely on trying to apply real world applications in an mmo.
     
    #55 Rilok, Jul 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  16. Unranked

    Unranked Unranked Striker 63 EU

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    Only the point the OP tried to make was not dr being countered by ap but the block being countered by it. block is something that should maybe be sperate from defensive stats or be an entire different stat because its weird for block to be countered by ap since it is already countered by grabs and being behind someone (most cases). block should be a counter to cc but ap somehow manages to bypass that, and tell me, do you think its balanced if in a duel, the archer is able to remove the entire block of the defender before his finger even left the enter button from saying ready? or do we need to wisper ready to each other standing from outside render distance so we can actually start fair?
    It is like a discussion between Legolas and Gimli....
     
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  17. Rilok

    Rilok Ranger NA

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    Tbh you make a fair statement and I agree with it. I don’t disagree that block needs some love and the only fixes I have deal with typically how to survive long enough even without a block till you can close the gap on a ranger/archer. My point however is why try to nerf one class because a warriors block mechanic needs some love ? I agree block should be it’s own stat; or maybe scale off of something different that’s more universal like HP. But don’t nerf a different class because of fault mechanics your class has to deal with. That’s like me saying, “as a ranger, I deal with split damage - so every other class should as well.” Split dmg would kill most melee classes.
     
  18. Jexz

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    What is DR supposed to counter?
     
  19. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    In theory? Accuracy.
     
  20. Jexz

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    I was told you cant evade while blocking, is this true to FG?
     

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