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Reduce ranged damage VS blocks

Discussion in 'PvP' started by BboydD, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. Rilok

    Rilok Ranger NA

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    Accuracy.
    Ideally the way it’s setup is this:
    Accuracy counters Evasion
    Evasion counters AP
    Ap counters DR
    DR counters Accuracy
     
  2. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    I have the same info but I never bothered to test it myself tbh.
     
  3. dobe

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    I only have anecdotal evidence in 2017 on my maehwa with tri sicil,when i swapped from my white horn bow to a tet rosar bow and its feel like i gained 30% more blocking rate on 310/320 dp on pvp against ~235 ap(with double RCE ),tet rosar was like 5 ish dr and the remaining DP was eva.
     
  4. Hekki

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    Yes, DR does not counter AP and that is the reason why this game is broken. And evasion does not do it. AP items simply have too much accuracy.
    Fact the game is fantasy does not means phisics laws does not work. Maybe don't try make from an fantasy the absurd, ok?
    1. They should lost both.
    2. Range damage obviously is not fine. It is far too high. It make melee characters useless in all kind of mass PvP. Node wars and sieges are dominated by mages and archers. Same on red battlefield. There KDA ratio says all.
    3. MMORPG from nature is substytut of real world so real world comparison is valid. Also fact game is fantasy does not justifies absurdities. And fact archers can break heavy shield is and absurd that should not have place.
     
  5. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Not true.

    What?

    Not true either. Besides the fact that wiz/witch have more mid range damage and not range, I can also provide screenshots of musas, ninjas and even a kuno being top kills in nw and siege.

    Archers can't one shot blocks obviously unless the DP of the target is too low for archers ap. Archer has to break blocks at some point tho otherwise everyone could just move to his way in FG skills. What's the point????´
    I'd also like to know the comparison of iframes to rl. Also what is the comparison to lahn flying skills? Jetpack? What about zerker ult? Tamer ult? Easy one shots and there is so much more...
     
  6. Rügenwalder Pommersche

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    u know what doesnt break shields in reallife - magic - but somehow thats ok or what
     
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  7. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    True, it doesn't break blocks, it insta knocks out the opponent!
     
  8. Rügenwalder Pommersche

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    oh damn time to reroll wiz to i can finally kill someone in pvp
     
  9. Hekki

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    True

    Archers should lost both CC and damage.

    It does not block mages kill from distance.
    Some rare individals does not realy count. we talk about classes in general.
    And ninja & kuno are special case because they use another broken mechanics - invisibility. For some reason they also have more evasion that full tank characters. This 2 classes is separate topic.

    That is the point, there should be possible to make wall of shields by tank characters as in true battles.
    Iframes are because game use aim assist and that you obviously does not see? I'm really ok with clean all spam this game have.
     
  10. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    What?

    They are not rare... just say that you want easy mode with no effort. Every class can perform well if the player adapts to the situation.
    Every class has something broken... What about musa? Maehwa? DK? I can provide screenshot of these classes being top kills as well.

    It is possible. The class is called Valkyrie, the skill PA.

    How does that make sense? Also not everyone plays with aim assist on...

    What?
     
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  11. Hekki

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    They are rare and in most cases they have gear over the soft cap. And I talk here about general class comparison. Who want go easy mode? You just sit on back and camping from second half of map.

    As I said, rare individuals. It does not count to general situation.

    That is point of this whole topic. Even Valk block can be killed by 2-4 shots. What is wall of shields while single archer can break it so easily?

    All use it, want or not. This is bullied in to skills. All projectiles tracking the target, so cannot evade it by different way than iframe.
     
  12. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Yes they are over softcap. Game is over 3,5 years old... No they are not rare.

    You.

    No. Skills are affected heavily by the Y-Axis besides that did you ever do a node war? Did you notice how many hills, trees, rocks, walls, stairs, fences etc there are?

    Who says that is a general situation? Casual players who are around softcap after 3,5 years? Or active PvP people who know their class?

    2-4 Shots? Do you even know archers combos? Do you know what archer can do after 4 shots? Run and wait for cooldowns...
    It is not easy if you need ~80% of your entire kit just to break the block. Besides that... PA, hello?

    What? Mate you gotta really use google translate or something...

    No, no just no. Literally l2p issues.

    Considering your english, you must be from EU. Make a trial archer, I make a trial char with weak block or even valk if you want. You show me how you break my block easily and kill me, ok?
     
  13. Hekki

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    Range characters does not need to be over soft cap to be in top KDA.

    Said... a camper?

    So what? You have only to find good position to have clean shot.

    And what Valk can do on front line when lose block? That is instant death. What kind of shield wall it is? That is why there should not be possible to break block by ranged attacks.

    Seems like you have problem with understand how this game works. Or, what is more likely you lie. If anybody have problem with it understand, just observe how projectiles behavior on moving target.

    That is nonsense. First we do not talk about 1v1 but mass PvP where even Valk can not block because her block go down by instant. And test it on trial characters is nonsense because of way how AP scale.
     
  14. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    Not true again lol.... but kinda funny you come with that then:

    Regardless... mate you heavily lack PvP experience and class knowledge. No point to discuss with you. Your "experience" does not fit the truth nor does it represent the actual PvP at sieges or node wars. I did merc for several guilds on low, med and high level. I can provide several screenshots that archers (besides me) are mostly not in top kills. These are not exceptions. Here is my favorite.
     

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  15. Hekki

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    Individual cases does not prove anything. All what is matter is global comparison.

    And about your personal attacks, you seems fail in argumentation:
    [​IMG]
     
  16. BboydD

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    I play valk, and PA isn't an issue. You can easy go away during the 6s of PA. And it has 4 Min CD.
    you just need to go in rbf and look what and archer can without skill.
     
  17. Kauni

    Kauni Archer 62 EU

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    You keep saying it's individuals meanwhile they are not. Also I did not personally attack you. I just stated facts. You have no experience and you don't understand the PvP.

    When I join rbf I see max 2 archers, me including.

    Is not like I don't see other archers playing siege and/or nws. I have enough screenshots where I can show how even 281+ ap archers are pretty far at the bottom. Maybe NA has more issues with archers? Idk but most EU people know how to handle an archer, unless some people like this Hekki guy who has barely experience.

    Edit: Just did rbf, 2 archers.
    Edit2: Just did another rbf, again one more archer.
    I could do that all day if rbf wasn't that trash but the amount of archers on EU is quite low and the ones who are actually getting kills even lower.
     

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    #77 Kauni, Jul 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  18. Wollbert

    Wollbert Ranger 62 EU

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    becoz he said you obviously lack pvp experience. thats not how this pyramid works. if there is some so obvious like you not understanding the gamemechanics he can also front you with it. totally fine.
     
  19. Ama83

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    Archer is weak 1v1 if people know how to fight, and total trash against evasion builds, is good on mass pvp if no one focus him, so far i watching turnaments, and this class to easy die against skilled players.

    And facepalm when i read people like Hekki.

    Regards.
     
  20. Rilok

    Rilok Ranger NA

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    Yup, last post from me because i don’t know if trolling or just dumb. Its like talking to a wall at this point. I’m literally telling you what you need to do and instead of trying it out - you fight it. But here it goes anyway...

    Evasion does work. With evasion you need a lot of it for it to work. So how do you get enough evasion to counter all the accuracy in the game without sacrificing everything else ? Simple - get caphras. You see - most people are going to run full ap builds with a few going hybrid. To counter this you need to level up your armors with caphras... getting your armors to at least level 5 will give you more than enough evasion to contend with most raw ap builds. This will in turn force those builds to get more accuracy by trading off ap. By doing this you will feel much tankier vs certain classes like ranger and archer but you won’t feel much of a change at all when fighting classes like valk because of their 100% accuracy skills. Like someone mentioned earlier, warriors and valk block naturally run off DR which is why no matter the ap nerf you try to push, it will always get blown up. This is because AP COUNTERS DR. This is why having high caphra level is so important. So you’re still tanky even when your block is down. I suggested that maybe making block run off something like your hp pool to make it more fair. But this isn’t ranger/archer having too high of ap problem - It’s we naturally counter your block because it’s based off DR which is counter by ap which is what we run... this is no different than an evasion mystic possibly struggling vs a Valk. Valks have 100% accuracy skills which in theory should negate most of the evasion a mystic has. It’s called a class counter. So I’d recommend asking the devs to change its mechanics instead of asking for nerfs to other classes on things you don’t understand.

    Again, you show your lack of game knowledge. When it comes to sieges, guilds are stacked with witches and wizards because of their group heals and buffs like PA , not solely their damage. Archers can perform well in rbf’s because of its 3-lane style approach. This only exists in rbf’s and you typically don’t see them perform this well in any other situation due to chances of being flanked is much more frequent.

    Fine, feel free to talk arrows and armor penetration after you can explain the flying Pegasus, unicorns, hell horse, witches and wizards, underwater Atlantic-type regions, world bosses, class ultimates, etc. Until then - try to learn more about the actual game mechanics and stop trying to compare a fantasy world to irl.
     

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