1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Reward "Whales"

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Nihilistic Nancy, May 29, 2020.

  1. Kynreaa

    Kynreaa DarkKnight 62

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Messages:
    4,753
    Likes Received:
    3,210
    Well, they are like this one. This one just pulled a gotcha on us with an initial price tag, and we assumed it wouldn't act like a ftp game...Boy did they exploit that misconception. I don't think there is a monetization method these guys left out of this fiasco...even down to pay2skip, found in mobile dungeon builders, like dungeon keeper for the Carrack mechanic. So if you play this one..welcome to the party.


    [​IMG]
     
    Jinoro and MoonDance17 like this.
  2. MoonDance17

    MoonDance17 Lahn 61 NA

    Joined:
    May 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    1,155
    Agreed I bought the game preordered before launch, the fifty dollar package. They sure ripped off all the unsuspecting noobs of Korean mmo's. I bought in because of the no pay to win promise and have quit several times due to the horrendous monetisation. I am on the cusp of quitting again.
     
    Jinoro likes this.
  3. Boink

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2017
    Messages:
    1,555
    Likes Received:
    1,058
    Why are you guys surprised that they will do this type of monetization? The moment they increased artisans multiplier and bring in cron about 1 1/2 ago I know they will not stop.

    Pretty soon they will definitely "reward whales" as soon as they get a new flagship game. Imagine opening an $80 dollar per share as an IPO (now $150) because it's working ;). Time is "convenience" and every MMO industry will work on that value.
     
    Kynreaa likes this.
  4. PancakeRift

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    482
    Likes Received:
    513
    Reward whales??

    I thought dumping a small fortune to bypass the thousands of active hours needed to grind/lifeskill so you can get full PEN weapons and Armor is "bonus" enough.

    No wonder the mobile market makes a fortune with fools like you defending predatory behaviour.
     
    KhaosThanathan and Akantorian like this.
  5. MoonDance17

    MoonDance17 Lahn 61 NA

    Joined:
    May 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    1,155
    I was surprised and disappointed when it first went pay to win. I am no longer surprised but still disappointed every time they make it more pay to win.
     
    Fearless V and Jinoro like this.
  6. Chaos Ronin

    Chaos Ronin RyunokoDynasty Mystic 61 NA

    Joined:
    May 17, 2017
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    1,428
    I have no idea why all these people constantly cry about "p2w" this "p2w" that. "Boo hoo this one guy has a good enough job and enough money to buy what he wants from the pearl shop. I DEMAND I CAN HAVE IT TO"! If you don't like the way the game is ran, then leave the game. Obviously threads like this are dominated by complainers after complainers who contribute little to nothing towards the future development of this game. Nothing in this world is free from any successful mmo to the water we drink that falls out of the fricken sky.

    If you can't afford something then don't buy it. If there is a way to work towards that thing you can't afford, then work for it. If you don't want to work for it, then leave it the hell alone, right?
    That's how life works...

    You wouldn't walk into a restaurant and buy the cheapest meal on the menu, later noticing someone else a few tables away paid for the $1000 burger with gold leaf on and cry that you want that one and expect it... Saying that that's how the world is getting lately. Everyone demands everything for nothing these days D:
     
    IWalkAlone and PeaceInChaos like this.
  7. PancakeRift

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    482
    Likes Received:
    513
    You are so disconnected its ridiculous. Its not the fact we can or cannot afford it. I can afford to whale just fine, a HUGE amount of us can but choose not too and dislike p2w mechanics. Because in our eyes it isnt worth it or we get no sense of accomplishment for it.

    Its the fact when you work for something, go out of your way to EARN it. The feeling of accomplishment on said goal is that much greater than throwing your bank account at it.

    To know players dont "earn" their gains via ingame methods cheapens your accomplishments and can sour the taste of completing your goals.

    An MMO can be successful without going the greedy route of exchanging irl cash for ingame silver. So thats a bs argument.

    Like lets take KR for example. Why in EARTH would I grind in KR? Its 660m per outfit on the market. 1 hour of irl work will net me 660m where 1 hour of ingame work at best will net me 210m. I dunno about you but that would MURDER the morale and drive for thousands of players to grind. Would it kill the game? No. It will hurt the game to a point that maybe irrecoverable though.

    Thats the reason why p2w is such an issue to most players. It kills your motivation to enjoy yourself. You may retort with "just get over it". Easier said than done, thats why MMO's die more often than survive. That lack of motivation culls the playerbase. A low player base makes whales leave due to an inactive game. Then the game is on life support (no content releases ever) or shut down.

    The company must find that fine line between both kinds of players. So far PA hasn't over stepped. They are very close to doing so for a WESTERN audience though. Russia & Asia embrace p2w. The western audience hate it in general.
     
    #207 PancakeRift, Jun 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  8. JSXShadow

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2016
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    128
    Why does it cheapen the accomplishment when other players have gained the same as you just with RL money...actually I think it is the other way around. Working your way up there and still being able to compete with people that have thrown away so much money is the highest tier of accomplishment you can ever get in a game like this. That is exactly why whales are so important.

    What happens if we had no whales that could get gear faster or mechanics that would help achieve something like that? No one would play the game because people would complain about the No-Lifers that have unlimited time to spend. Why? Because they would be there in place of the whales and tbh, I don't care if they have "grinded" the way up there while someone was working and "grinded irl" instead. Makes. No. Difference. The only difference is the player skill and how good a player is on a competitive scale and/OR the most important part, how much fun they have. I have grinded for 10h in a row already and it is NOT fun, even if I made a bit over 4b in those 10h cause RNG carry to the maximum.

    Grinding is fun for me still but only if its like 1-2h max in a row, I don't have more time anyways. I could whale this game to hell but seeing how easy silver comes..spending 30 bucks on 250m or less seems rather stupid, no, downright ret..... so nope there. But if people wanna go for that cause they need better gear, let them, there is no issue and NO inconvinience as a result for anyone because of this. There are enough No-Lifers that grind 2b+ a day, every day and it is mostly those people that are toxic, entitled griefers, at least from my experience. Just log Battle Arena with Trial char, PvP with trial gear, No need to QQ about whales or anything and everyone is happy. As for Nodewars and such...as any form of Mass pvp in any game...its just a garbodor fest of so many uncontrollable factors that your personal "skill" is the lowest of those factors to begin with, hence if you are not delusional, there is no glory to gain there, at all.

    To be fair, the only real glory gain this game, or any game like that, offers is a 1v1 same class in BA on trial chars. The better player wins. Anything else is an RNG fest par excellance anyways and to be fair, I have stopped caring about people overgearing anyone in PvE a LOOOOONG time ago because it does not matter. Well BDO has some areas that require high end gears at least but it's still just the same grinding. Just AFK fish, train, cook or whatever you like and just login for events and stuff and you will make enough progress to reach softcap in a year with a bit of grinding here and there if you feel like it. There is no need to compare your own gears to others if you don't compete anyways and if you do, gear difference is so busted that you better just 1v1 in BA and that's that. You see where I am going with this? There isn't even a single incentive to cash in BDO at all, it is human delusions (yet again) that makes ppl do that.
     
    IWalkAlone and Chaos Ronin like this.
  9. FrozenReaper

    FrozenReaper Archer 62 EU

    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,197
    Likes Received:
    1,835
    on paper it sounds nice, but concidering how much rng resistances and desync plays part in this game, there is very little room for actual skill
     
    KhaosThanathan likes this.
  10. JSXShadow

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2016
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    128
    Can't disagree. However, Like this, it is the most skill-dependend it can get in this game :(
     
  11. MoonDance17

    MoonDance17 Lahn 61 NA

    Joined:
    May 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    1,155
    You seem so emotionally involved here and have lost all sense of perspective. There is no proof that any player here complaining about pay to win never spend money on this game, there is no proof that they are all asking for anything for nothing either, what they are asking is the removal of pay to win not the removal of the pearl shop. You need to step back and a take a deep breath.
     
  12. Kynreaa

    Kynreaa DarkKnight 62

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Messages:
    4,753
    Likes Received:
    3,210
    Because P2W games arnt fun when you have to suffer all the artificial inconveniences you cant afford to bypass. Unfortunantly the box doesent have P2W on the label so 90% of the customers find out after they are already invested financially and find out there are even more Paywalls hindering progress. So then you get disappointment, grief, anger, etc...Pretty much what one can expect from successfully pulling off a predatory monetization practice, and remaining behind to see the aftermath.

    Usually before all this sets in the games long crashed burned, and forgotten...PA lingered so here we are now. It doesent help that we also have a section of the community that lies to people telling them they can freemium their way to success, with "hard work". And it actually works to keep fodder here for the whales.

    You are asking these people these questions as they are on the way out the door of a casino..You expect to see smiles if they are not caring bundles of cash? I dont think they care if it closes, if whales cant finance it any longer.

    Heh, see this is what Im talking about..Deceiving people into thinking they can "hard work" their way up, chasing inflation. No mention of they need to feed the beast to progress, and they can do it themselves, or get a whale to do it for them. None the less they arnt going anywhere till it happens. It doesent mater how much "hard work" you throw at it...you need RNG attempts, or you need to buy someone elses success. And they sell em in the Cash shop. Aside from the obvious exceptions.

    If people are upset with how progression is handled, let them express their concern. What is it to you then? If you like it, continue just playing your way. You would miss P2W from BDO?
     
  13. Fearless V

    Fearless V Ranger 61 NA

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    3,016
    It seem some interesting people in this forum conveniently forget that BDO isn't near the top far as MMO ratings go. All BDO can claim, is that it is the highest rated KMMO. Many of Western MMOs that don't have this P2W inconveniences have many times more positive ratings and players that continue playing them. So again BDO's business model is in fact objective inferior to the Western Dev teams, that try to sell you a game with content first.

    If KMMO devs actually wanted to make some good money. They would actually develop their games with content instead of Cash Shop based PvP. KMMOs are widely known to be Wallet Warrior simulators.
     
    KhaosThanathan and Kynreaa like this.
  14. PancakeRift

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    482
    Likes Received:
    513
    It feels cheap because its the fast and easy way to succeed. There is no recognition of an accomplishment made in game. Because you didnt work for it in game. When I see someone thats 700 gear score. I dont think, "oh cool they must have worked real hard for that. Thats some real dedication". What now comes to mind is "Oh just another whale whod rather pay for power than earn it".

    Whales are important yes. I never challenged that argument once dude. I said whales can kill the morale of a playerbase. Kill off the motivation of others you kill off your game. As I said, fine line that an MMO publisher must walk on.

    You can have whales in video games that dont allow them to gain power over other players. Also you only have "x" amount of ACTIVE hours in a day. So no lifers are restricted to however many hours they sink in. Big whales dont have an "x" amount of money they can spend. Lots can spend what ever the F they like. It makes a HUGE difference. It is not a 1:1 comparison like you are trying to make it.

    If grinding isnt fun do something else. Plenty of ways to play the game and make silver dude.

    Ok, 1 to 2 hours is still 200 to 400m depending on how deep into progression you are in BDO. Minimum 1.4b per week if you do it daily. YOU may not think its worth whaling and thats fine. Many think its worth it. If they can grind and whale my god they get gains real quick.

    Its clear you lack experience or enjoyment from PvP beyond dabbling. So im going to ignore all of those points that are misrepresented since you clearly dont put the time in it so you dont really understand or can relate to the implications of whales in scenes like PvP.

    30 bucks gets you 330mill

    Mass PvP isnt an RNG fest. Once you learn how to read a battlefield it becomes very clear its about individual skill and team skill put together.

    I'm a PvP'er, talkin to the wrong demographic when it comes to your extremely casual way to progress. Casual playstyle is fine, but BDO is my main game. So my mentality on the slow playstyle is a legit waste of time for myself. I highly recommend your closing paragraph there to any new players though. Healthy way to pick up BDO for sure.
     
  15. Kynreaa

    Kynreaa DarkKnight 62

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Messages:
    4,753
    Likes Received:
    3,210
    Well...they are making good money. Just off the wrong audience, children or people who dont realize they are in a casino. Casinos wish they could tap that resource.
     
    #215 Kynreaa, Jun 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  16. Fearless V

    Fearless V Ranger 61 NA

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    3,016
    They are not making money like WoW, ESO, or FFXIV. They made a upfront short term burst. More than likely from unsuspecting new gamers that don't know what KMMOs are about. Now the game is more than likely being funded be only a few thousand whales and some F2P players.

    I'd be surprised if the game has more than 5,000 actually active players in NA. I'm willing to bet that BDO not BDM makes less than 25% annually than titles like ESO, WoW, and FFXIV. Hell I'll be willing to bet just the ESO cosmetic market would overshadow BDO's earnings. And ESO is only published to NA and EU.
     
  17. Akantorian

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    202
    You do really sound like an enttitled kid who got everything he wanted in life with 0 effort.
     
    Hondo_Lane and Findubar like this.
  18. Naho

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    824
    You're saying they aren't but are willing to bet they aren't ... wait what? You just assume things at this point
     
  19. Sadalsuud

    Sadalsuud Tamer 62 EU

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Messages:
    1,542
    Likes Received:
    1,903
    Because I don't believe they did it based on player feedback. Like they do with some items, they simply remove it to articially create rarity and push sales later.
    But I may be over pessimistic on this one, I admit.

    OMG...
    Let me say it again : whales are not a kind of savior, they don't allow other players to do anything because they're whaling. They are not an answer to no-lifers, either.
    They preserve a business model that is going more and more towards predatory strategies, gambling, laziness. Even worse, they feed a system where they can spend even more, even if there's no gain in the end, allowing devs to rely on excessive RNG instead of creating innovative content.

    "What happens if we had no whales that could get gear faster or mechanics that would help achieve something like that? No one would play the game because people would complain about the No-Lifers that have unlimited time to spend"?
    Wait, what? If we had no whales we would have no-lifers with the best gear, and most of the time with decent personal skills. And? What prevents you from accepting that fact? What is that illogical jealousy that makes you like the fact that whales can throw money to compete with these players?
    Most of us are playing on BDO, we are not professional E-athletes, and while I can understand that it is nice to play in good conditions, with a good equipment, we must accept our limits.
    If you decide to play soccer as a non professional, you'll appreciate to have good shoes, but will you buy bionic legs because you have less time to train than other players?

    No, probably not, yet this idea is common in video-game, supported, defended by some players. Yet it is deeply wrong, as it changes the focus of devs that looks for more manipulation and not more innovation, and the focus of players that devalue their own effort without realizing it and leads them towards the search for more immediate pleasure at all costs. Even through RNG.


    What's worse, as long as this model will stay over lucrative, it will prevent the real return of other models. Why would smaller companies even dare to try something else, when this model and the use of RNG is more interesting with its abuses?
    How many games like this have been launched with this idea, sometimes with success like BDO and Archeage (and don't forget how Archeage was killed), but often for a short burst of money before they disappear?
    I even think that most companies are only reusing assets and knowledge to create expendables MMORPG, and that we will keep getting them as long as players are accepting this AND governments are letting them use these methods.

    Is this the future you want for MMORPGs? Don't try to compete because it's only delusional?
    But tell me, why is the gear requirement for an interesting high level pvp put so high ? Why do we have higher AP bonuses for players with high GS? The power cap is not only made, but even induced by the current model and the presence of too many players ready to pay for potential shortcuts.

    Talk about a good thing, really...
     
  20. Vortexii

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2020
    Messages:
    1,567
    Likes Received:
    1,560
    To remove them and make the statements about it would be an absolutely horrible way to manage this. While Pearl Abyss has absolutely ruined the game with Pay2Win garbage, they still do a few minor things that are helpful. Sadly these minor things are essentially pointless in the big picture, but they should still be recognized.
    • More free pets
    • Maids from events
    • Additional weight from books, quests etc
    • Less inventory needed fishing
    There are actually quite a few things they did to improve the functionality of the game. However, again it's all nearly useless with worse enchanting rates, costume melting, higher gear score requirements, and the cancerous upgrade system.

    They are also trying to phase out Caphra's from the game. Which is completely against everything they SAY they want to do.

    Overall Pearl Abyss is a terrible company with bad intentions, but even still they should be recognized when they do something decent.
     
    MoonDance17 likes this.

Share This Page