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Reward "Whales"

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Nihilistic Nancy, May 29, 2020.

  1. Korvgubben

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    Maybe it sounds like a lot because for a lot of ppl it actually is? To put stuff into context I made some comparisons based on average incomes.

    In Sweden the average income after tax is 1908€. That means 23k over 4 years is 25,1% of your total disposable income.

    In Romania the average income after tax is 536€. That means 23k over 4 years is a whopping 89,4% of your disposable income.


    Maybe 23k isnt such a big deal for some ppl atm but how much will the next game cost you? Or the game after that? Because if the business model that BDO currently offers provides a greater profit margin than previous or alternative business models then the next game will turn that up to 11 and the one after that will turn it up to 13.

    P2W should not be accepted simple because its everywhere same as cheating should never be accepted.

    Sometimes it might be a good idea to look back at what a game actually is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game

    The line "Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interaction." is especially worthy to take note off because of how much your wallet can affect these basics in BDO.
     
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  2. Chaos Ronin

    Chaos Ronin RyunokoDynasty Mystic 61 NA

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    Well, I'm not a whale and you have no idea how hard i worked to get to where i am in life today. 99% of people would have given up in the situations i faced. It also has nothing to do with being "blessed" i chose my own path in life and pursued it without ever giving up no matter how tough it got and how many times i was knocked down.

    This would all be good if BDO was actually p2w and i came from a game that was real p2w on level BDO will never touch, so thinking each game moving forward will be more and more "p2w" is false.
     
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  3. AngryBvr

    AngryBvr Mujava Maehwa 62 EU

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    I aint a "whale" but Ive also spend lot money in this game.

    Every convenience (pets etc) Check
    Weights and maids Check
    Entire zoo of pets Check!
    Animals coool! One day Ill have my army of 5x t4 ducks yo.
    I have all character slots because I can.
    Outfits for characters i play with daily.

    I even melted few outfits because i didnt like/need them anymore.

    None of my gear progression in game comes from p2w exclusives (pets = silver)

    Im spending on the game and streamers (bits and donos) who enjoy this game.

    But im not expecting any additional rewards for this... see above, i get convenience and joy.



    If u expect something for whaling youre in wrong place. Go take a look into stock investments
     
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  4. RandomHajile

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    I wish you continued success.

    Yea and just as food is a blessing, so is an opportunity. It's not only in Africa that people are struggling. That's the point tho. To say I worked hard and nothing was ever given to me is???? But I guess if it keeps you going its good. Seems pretty toxic and selfish world view wise. I've heard it before.

    Better to say I did the best with what I had and was blessed with success. But shrugs. It is what it is. It says the same thing without the negative connotations.

    Edit: incase it isn't clear. This is what was implied. 99% of people who reached my level of success didn't have a harder path than me and those that didn't succeed didn't work hard enough.

    It's like when people say well anyone can get where I can if they work. The reason that is untrue is finite resources. If everyone worked equally hard, some people would still get shafted. Nature of life. It's just something to keep in mind. Which is why I bring up blessings.
     
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  5. Korvgubben

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    Sry but 23k in 4 years is deffo on the whale-scale. As with other "gaming terms" however they are often up for some lvls of interpretation but the term is even used by the gaming companies so its hard to disregard it.

    I would guesstimate you to easily be in the top 5% of spenders though.

    I have the opposite experience. BDO is the most P2W mmo I've played so far and I believe that most if not all of the big names in the history of mmos have been less P2W than what BDO currently is. Its a bit tricky to judge a game though since they all change over time and it wouldnt be fair to call WoW a P2W game based on how it is today when it has been maybe the biggest mmo in history during its sub only times.

    I'm not a fan of the term "real P2W" either since the paid advantages in BDO are very much real aswell. I also think its very clear that games today are significantly more riddled with P2W, microtransactions, lootboxes etc. than games were 15 years ago. Outliers can always be found but as an average I think the direction is obvious.
     
  6. zeezero

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    Please don't encourage them to put in more artificial time gates and annoyances for the Whales to pay to get past.
     
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  7. MADE

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    Allods online holds the world record for being the most P2W mmo, but BDO is in the top3 that's a fact.
     
  8. Chaos Ronin

    Chaos Ronin RyunokoDynasty Mystic 61 NA

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    Don't state facts without proof.
     
  9. IWalkAlone

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    This strange.Cos realy BDO is not a P2W game.Atleast compared to some other.Dont forget, if you didnt see it that doesnt mean that existed.
    In reality few ears ago no one would take BDO as a P2W game, but people change, and now think every little thing that saves you little time,or gives you even one slot is a P2W.Funny things is that by BDO playerbase ESO is also P2W, but ESO players are ok, they still call it convenience...
    Thats a lie.
     
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  10. Fearless V

    Fearless V Lahn 61 NA

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    What's P2W about ESO?
     
  11. MADE

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    Given how he said that bdo is not a P2W game, he probably doesn't know what the word "P2W" means :D
     
  12. Chaos Ronin

    Chaos Ronin RyunokoDynasty Mystic 61 NA

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    I think people simply don't realize that when a game is "p2w" a free player will never be able to compete against the "p2wer's". Putting all the effort in the world rather than paying in a p2w game will NEVER let you compete against a paying player. In p2w games you can never win against a paying player because power and certain things are 100% behind a paywall because you know the saying? "pay to win"?
     
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  13. IWalkAlone

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    GO read ESO forums because whatever I say would be wrong to you.And also I said that by today terminology BDO is P2W because it gives you time.Few years ago P2W was something else.And I do believe today people just got soften to cry about BDO been P2W.
     
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  14. FrozenReaper

    FrozenReaper Archer 62 EU

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    well shieet then legacy archeage is not p2w poggers
     
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  15. Boink

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    I love it when players change their perception of what's p2w to fit their conformity.

    Let's just say this everyone out there assign a value on certain items you buy or trade. No one that I know off That's what the industry relies on whether food, clothing or in this case entertainment. What most MMORPG sells is time, what these companies are doing are exploiting it. Same reason why "convenience" stores are open 24/7, the same reason why people buy already processed or butchered meat. Their brain is registering that you are "winning" the moment of purchase. Same impulses you get when you buy an artisan YOU KNOW IT MULTIPLIES your attempts by X 5 or the use CRONS where you don't get punished a lot.

    No one is vilifying "whales", no one is vilifying Kakao/PA for a company that is trying to make a living and $. But to say this game is not p2w that's absurd.

    Oh and 23k is a drop compared to how much PA makes quarterly. The last report they show they made somewhere around 40-50m dollars in NA/EU. I'm sure someone out there p2w harder to get the "POGress" they desire.

    Guess what they are releasing to "encourage" spending tomorrow. Blackstar Armor. OOoOOooO. Same practical reason regarding Tuvala.
     
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  16. Korvgubben

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    BDO's amount of P2W is in no way affected by X game being more P2W unless the discussion is about comparing the 2.

    I'm simply stating "BDO is P2W" not "BDO is more P2W than xxx".

    BDO was P2W from its release it was just a "soft-release" on the cash shop which was most definitely planned ahead of time and not something that they simply thought of adding one day.

    "a free player will never be able to compete"
    "Putting all the effort in the world rather than paying in a p2w game will NEVER let you compete against a paying player"
    "certain things are 100% behind a paywall"

    None of these are mentioned in the definiton of P2W though.
     
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  17. IWalkAlone

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    Naah your words were kinda different.And like I said, by todays definition BDO is P2W.But there are games that compared to them BDOs P2W looks like a joke.That was my idea.
     
  18. Zimm

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    I've got a few thousand hours in ESO and I don't think there's anything comparable to being able to spend $40 for a 4% chance at getting a PEN boss weapon without downgrading it, nothing even remotely close to that. I'm fine with the P2W in BDO, I'm not about to drop the money on it but there are people who can spam PEN attempts until they get what they want while I only get a few attempts a week when I can snipe a costume off the market for silver. I can say you need X DLC to get X item in ESO, or playing without the crafting bag is trash, but at the end of the day they don't give nearly the advantage dropping money in BDO does. There are convenience items and there are P2W mechanics.
     
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  19. MoonDance17

    MoonDance17 Lahn 61 NA

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    Well you can convert real money into game currency but I don't know why you would do so.

    That is an extreme definition and you know it. BDO is pay to win, it may not be as egregious as other games you have played but it still is pay to win. It's like saying that murdering someone with torture is murder but killing someone while they are asleep is not because they did not suffer. Have you heard of nuance or shades of grey?
     
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  20. JSXShadow

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    Oh I think you misunderstood me. That wasn't my point. True control over your life and how your life goes is impossible anyways. However, like I said before, life is not just one reality, anyone has their own. In someones reality they worked to be where they are and in someone else' they just got insanely lucky while others didnt. Also it depends on the individual scope of expectations that can rapidly change depending on where and how they stand in life. But that's ok. You can work as hard as you want, have a straight set goal and know exactly what you want and how you want it and you might never be able to get anywhere at all if the opportunity doesnt show up. On the other hand you might be completely uncaring and dont even give a damn about your life and yet you find one opportunity after another, borderline automatically, without any effort..

    Heck, look at me. My job is ultra-simple, I earn the most out of my entire family and I am even able to play at work for roughly 60% of my work hours and get paid very nicely for it. Ofc I do not neglect what I was hired to do at all, it just so happens to allow me to do some brainless grinding here and there and I love it. But those are so many coincidences that have lead to this point. I was crazy lucky to end up where I am and I am not saying at all that it was due to my hard work. I do believe I have a decent base-level intellect that got me through without my hassle but real work...real effort...nope, I always pushed through life on the least-effort-possible route I could find. Now that wasn't always the easiest ad someone else might have terrible screwed up their life but again, it worked out and that was mainly due to luck, you know?

    Then again, no one successful and mighty ever worked to be where they are. This american way of thinking is nothing but being delusional. You can work hard to make your garden look pretty. You can work hard to overhaul your old car. You can work hard to build a house. Those are things you can work hard on. Getting signficantly more than someone else by doing basically the same amount of work as someone else (and having an idea at the right time is not work, that's pure luck and coincidence) is just Luck, it's basically RL-RNG. However, you should not be mad at the person one-tapping a PEN ogre or lay with free stacks, that happens and they got lucky. There is no reason to be negative about it. We should all be happy about what life gives us every day. Good AND Bad...because without the bad stuff, how could you ever be able to appreciate the good? How would you even know something is "good" if you would not have anything "bad" to compare it to. We must fail, must lose in order to win and feel good about it. If anything comes easy, you will not value the positives anymore. A rich dude is not as happy about finding a 5$ bill on the ground compared to a homeless person but they often won't even think about that, they can't. they are trapped inside their own reality.

    Well, the point I am making is that we shouldnt be angry, jealous or negative at all about any person because chances are, if you would live inside a similar reality as theirs, you would act the exact same way. You will always perceive things differently depending on where you stand in life. Things that might have seemed unfair are perfectly fine now that you might benefit from them. It is hypocritical, yes, but it is human at it's very core. We are all "guilty" of that. Then again, BDO is just for entertainment. It is basically a microcosm, just like so many other games, that shows us another reality, where ours standings might be vastly different from our realities in RL and yet are so similar as well. Many even seek certain aspects of life digitally that they could not find in RL and many people blame them for this, calling them failures in RL. What they are missing tho is the part in which they are not connceted with that person in RL, they are connected with that person here, so their RL doesn't matter one bit. Does it really make a difference for you if someone plays this game since release, 10+h a day and got close to cap gear or if they barely play an hour a day but earn good money in RL and have charged all that gear? What does it matter. they have that gear, they might be stronger than you for that moment either way. It is a long and hard way to understand the important reasons in life and humanity itself and many don't even bother, yet finding the reason for someones progress seems to be their main goal in that moment. It's funny, weird, stupid, but also somewhat interesting to see this behaviour, just like Life itself. Chaotic, unexplainable.

    Well acceptance of those little things is where I am getting it. Just accept it. Life. No matter how it goes, accept it and be prepared to accept the inevitable end as well. Death. Cause both Life and Death apply to every single Reality you might have chosen to life in and there is nothing we can do about it. those are the 2 only constants in our existence.
     
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