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rip mouse movement

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Wollbert, Oct 24, 2019.

  1. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    Xenon how can you say that 10% (or whatever) more damage and speed is irrelevant? anythings that secures the kill 10% faster or better is a big deal.

    i mean, you would mind if PA decided to nerf your class by 10% speed and damage, right? fps would balance it out, amirite?
     
  2. Wollbert

    Wollbert Ranger 62 EU

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    theres already a poll https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?threads/poll-on-mouse-movement.497330/
    and its well written. if you want to leave sorted feedback there then.
    dont ask him, he likes to argue but only if people dont answer back.
    10% damage is irrelevant for him so its for everyone.
     
  3. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    faster skill execution via more fps also means less gaps in protections. it affects combat on so many levels.
     
  4. Ok. The takeaway is that there are no concrete problems with combat mouse movement as no one is explaining the problems, and people are more concerned with fps effecting dps, as that is where this conversation keeps diverging.

    That is the clear message we're sending here.
     
  5. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    the mm topic was discussed over and over again.

    yes, it adds more things to do, it does require skill, question is how it affects skills that you can totally alter with them. also, how to balance it. lets take zerk for example. player a is red zerk, player b is some rando. so, if they balance berserker class to player a, player b probably wont ever be able to maybe even kill some mobs let alone players. are all these zerkers that are not on extra level ready to get nerfed coz of few guys that can do things shown in the video? coz that is how you balance class, around its potential and perfect plays.

    also there is this issue of it being only input via which it is possible to alter skills in a game that has multiple supported inputs by developers.
     
    Foggen likes this.
  6. Wollbert

    Wollbert Ranger 62 EU

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    the dps issue is a huge problem. the mouse movement should be removed as well, since it causes non intended behavior of certain skills. classes are not balanced around it so people should not loose any integrity of their class. thats about that.
     
  7. Foggen

    Foggen Musa 63 NA

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    I think you're misinterpreting what is intended as a noncommittal non-answer by Kakao as a statement of intent by PA. This one particular Kakao representative says that he can't say anything, and that the developers make decisions and change things based on "a variety of factors". That doesn't mean they're soliciting opinions for users on NA forums or that they're dithering about what to do or don't have a sense of intent, it means that Kakao and Pearl Abyss haven't produced an outward facing policy statement for you, and that things change. That's it. The only evidence we have about what they intend is based on what they do, and right now they're testing removing advanced mouse movement, which is a high-likelihood precursor to removing it from the live game.

    And personally, I say go for it.
     
  8. zhagsten

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    yeah guys I'm sure PA will listen to you, they will let mm break animation and change the power of some skills because they are impressed by the dexterity it requires... as shown from their way of balancing the game with faster ttk, long cc, less cc protection, shorter pot cd, perma dmg rage skills, etc.
     
  9. Foggen

    Foggen Musa 63 NA

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    The DPS issue is a bit of a digression, because it's a completely unrelated topic that has to do with the fundamental limitations of running a client-server game without a synchronized frame state and not weird interactions between multiple input modes.
     
  10. TeRRoRibleOne

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    After 1v1'ing a zerker in OW last night that was using mouse movement, I'm ok with it going away. The complete unnatural movement as a result of it was annoying as ****. It felt nice killing them in the end but still left a sour taste in my mouth.
     
  11. Thank you for bringing up this point. Classes shouldn't be balanced around the lowest common denominator of skill. We only learn the full potential of a class by those players that use their command of the game to its fullest extent.


    See my response here. Unfortunately, I don't think further response to you is constructive. I will simply leave all further commentary on your posts as an agreement to disagree. When you demonstrate higher level game knowledge and command of rhetoric, then I'll be happy to take up discussion with you again.

    Agreed. Both sides of this argument have extrapolated the test server change to mean more than what is actually happening in the game. There is currently no policy on this, but player feedback influences policy, hence my shift in stance on this thread.

    If we provide concrete examples of what is wrong, then we can influence how this is applied before going live.

    What would make this constructive, actionable feedback is posting a clip of what you are seeing or describing the skills you see as being bugged.
     
  12. Wollbert

    Wollbert Ranger 62 EU

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    Hi mates,
    the "unintended" argument is out of the picture because im telling you thx bye.

    thats not going to work sorry. there are certain things and skills looking just not intended and glitchy.
    some of them arleady posted here and there.
    thats the statement of my opinion you asked for, im not interested in any further arguing here since its on a very disappointing level.

    here is the horse jump glitch you requested earlier
     
    #272 Wollbert, Nov 1, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
    Thelemna likes this.
  13. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    so we can agree that some of the classes could require nerfs if this stays? that some classes are still weak even with this in play? that regardless of mm issue sorcs and shortswords need nerfs?

    i mean, going by the "what the class can achieve" measurement, balancing is heavily in order. hells, even warriors need nerfbat then, if mchands is the "norm" for balancing it.
     
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  14. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    does he really have to? i mean we all fought these guys. it looks beyond unnatural, desync'd, without proper counter beside guessing (if we r gonna be fair)... and that on a class that has kit do to so.
     
  15. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    can you believe people defended this and called it skill and said it adds to the depth of the game?

    https://community.blackdesertonline...usemovement-while-jumping-with-a-horse.459260


    sounds awfully familiar.
     
  16. Thank you for being specific. It looks like this issue has been fixed as per the thread you linked.

    I have been saying that for the cases where mouse movement bugs a skill, then let's identify the skill so it can be fixed, just like the horse jump was identified and fixed.

    Example of an actionable input and reasoning:

    The Zerker skill Giant Leap spreads damage across the ground under the Zerker. With Mouse movement, you can control the Zerker to lift and land in a small area, thus containing all the damage in one place. This skill has high damage, high mobility, high protection (invincibility), and crowd control on multiple hits. Suggested to remove CC. Zerker keeps ability to finesse the skill. Opponent has more of a chance to outplay the Zerker.

    That is one argument against mouse movement and Zerkers that I know has been raised. And one way to address it without removing a layer of play from everyone.

    Another example, which I think @TeRRoRibleOne was talking about is Combat Mouse movement on lava piercing? But I don't have a suggestion for improvement here as there are many skill combinations across classes that you can purposely do to make it hard to follow (example on tamer lock evasive attack flow and hold bj while performing evasive attack, looks extremely glitchy to the opponent). This is a display issue that falls on the developers to mitigate just like the fps/dps issue, kd/ground sliding issue, and extendo-grab issue. These are all display problems that will take more than removing combat mouse movement to fix.
     
  17. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    one might argue that some of the cases of "overperforming" are due to nonintended results of certain mechanics (and/or engine faults). how to balance that then? presume everyone has 200 fps and uses mm to the max or whats the starting point for balance? as is now, it should be.
     
  18. Doing my best to to be specific and objective. I will not give a blanket answer on balance as that's the very thing I'm arguing against.

    I've given an example of useful input. The previous horse problem has already been fixed.

    What are the specific problems cause by combat mouse movement?
     
  19. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    are the results of this input doable via other inputs? that seems to be one of the more important issues. also, are results of it intended by developers? we need feedback from them.
     
  20. So no specific problems caused by combat mouse movement.

    If it is something bothering you in game, you should be able to explain/describe what it is.
     

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