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Should Advice of Valks (Failstacks) be sellable on the Marketplace?

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Andaro, Aug 7, 2018.

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In General Concept, Should We be able to sell our Failstacks (Advice of Valks) on the Marketplace?

  1. Yes All The Way

    54 vote(s)
    44.3%
  2. Yes, but with some boundries

    10 vote(s)
    8.2%
  3. Maybe, It's definitely something we should think about

    13 vote(s)
    10.7%
  4. I'm not so sure about this

    8 vote(s)
    6.6%
  5. Absolutely Not.

    42 vote(s)
    34.4%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Chaos Ronin

    Chaos Ronin RyunokoDynasty Mystic 61 NA

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    Make it pearl shop up to 50FS. 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 and i would be cool with that. No more than 50 fs in the pearl shop or the game does truly become a p2w game :D
     
  2. DheReaper

    DheReaper Ranger 62 EU

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    It is not cheap . It is a way to combat p2w and trading between players .
     
  3. DheReaper

    DheReaper Ranger 62 EU

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    Or maybe not . Some players are wasting like 50-100 blackstones to manage making only 30 fs , that would be p2w .
    Let the game like this or make a system where the seller won't be able to profit from it .
     
  4. Arreyanne

    Arreyanne Lahn 59 NA

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    Dont let the seller profit from selling failstacks. Why? I already do not sell anything i enchant, pri plus as there is no profit in it. I list a tri item for 300k and preorders for 1 billion screw that I aint selling it
     
    Alicia Dominica and Chaos Ronin like this.
  5. JM

    JM Tamer 62 NA

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    Dude 100 fs for 100 mil is crazy cheap.
     
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  6. Chaos Ronin

    Chaos Ronin RyunokoDynasty Mystic 61 NA

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    I forgot to mention that if the fs were pearl shop items, they shouldn't be sellable on MP. If the players are selling FS on MP, they absolutely should be able to profit from it. The only problem is, you know people are going to ruin it the second it comes out (if it did i mean) with stupidly high preorders.
     
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  7. DheReaper

    DheReaper Ranger 62 EU

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    Still not a good idea ... Imagine those noobs who always fail cause they don't know anything about the game , but now he buys all the failstacks from pearl store ...
    Just let the game as it is , still best mmorpg anti p2w on the market till now .
     
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  8. Chaos Ronin

    Chaos Ronin RyunokoDynasty Mystic 61 NA

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    Totally agree with that, i'm talking more like IF they did add that feature. I feel that would be the fairest way to imply it if you know what i mean? :)
     
  9. Krog Gar

    Krog Gar Berserker 61 EU

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    I don't see how the pricing would work.
    You'd have to make it more reliably more expensive than making the fail stacks for people to actually sell, and then you'd disincline people from actually paying for them 'cause it'd be cheaper to make the stack themselves...

    But I guess there are always the lazy people who'd rather spend more to guarantee a stack...
     
  10. Andaro

    Ambassador

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    In the Drieghan content, there is a daily quest that rewards the player with a +20 Advice of Valks, which might suggest that +20 is a starting base-line, and is generally a good starting stack that we use quite often.

    The cost of a blacksmith book 20 is 1 mil.
    The cost of Blackstone is on average 300k (ballpark average).
    If every enchant was fail, that's 1m + (20x300k)

    If on Green Gear, which is most common, you fail t9 enchant 20 times and then repair, on the most expensive green gear (around 350k) that's (ballpark) around 8 x 350k (as each green piece restores 10 durability)

    We can then look at a beginning price of 1m + (20 * 300k) + (8 * 350k) , or 9.8 mil.

    If we then consider this cost is greater when repairing Boss Gear, from 20 dura to 100, we could substitute the formula to 1m+(20x300k)+(80x700k), for another possible base line price of 63 million.

    Although the above numbers are very abstract and do not represent every scenario of upgrading costs, losses and wins, nor are they precise in regards to inflation, we can begin to think that the cost of a +20 Advice (failstack) might be between 10 and 65 mil.

    Looking at the middle of that figure, we could say an ideal price on a +20 Valk would be around 32 mil.

    With a 25% inflation margin, at 32 mil normal price, could be as low as 24 mil and as high as 38.4 mil.


    Just throwing out some numbers into the discussion.

    I could further venture that we don't really ever seek to fail and thus create failstacks, but that bit is merely something we become accustomed to in our journey to succeeding in successful upgrades. When we succeed in the upgrade we benefit more from the success either by gear progression or by selling what we have upgraded.

    When we fail it is unfortunate, but we use that failure to increase success on future attempts. You could, in the same reasoning, sell your failure to recoup some of the value of your losses.
     
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  11. AtomicPotato

    AtomicPotato DarkKnight 62 EU

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    32mil for +20 FS, keep dreaming, if it even will be implemented its MP price will be 5mil max, and 20 for 100FS - Why not, all other prices on MP is a random numbers, those gonna work to, someone gonna say they are right prices to protect new players ( with 2016 reg date,i don't mean OP) from whale.
     
  12. Andaro

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    you can't take what I wrote verbatim , and I believe I directly stated the numbers I threw up were completely abstract
     
  13. AtomicPotato

    AtomicPotato DarkKnight 62 EU

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    There is no point implement something to MP, when there is no MP.
    For example there is 2 type of people - lucky people and smart people, smart people make insane amount of money to provide lucky people with resources to use their luck. While in BDO reality lucky people can't sell their luck to smart people at "fair" price, or at least price that keep lucky going. BDO don't support this. You can TET left and right, but you can't get enough money to keep going, or you can get billions with you brain, but can't buy items as there is no items.
     
  14. C6H5CH3

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    Fantastic idea to goad newbies and casuals into selling their stuff for increasingly worthless silver to siege players, seamonster hunters and hackers to even further increase the gap between the two.
    I think I have a better proposition to do away with pretenses: Let's just ban everyone with less than 10 billion silver in the bank.
     
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  15. Andaro

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    I'm not exactly what you are trying to say with this, since is sounds more like Alice In Wonderland Circle Talking, but...

    What I am trying to reason, is that, there is a cost for failing to upgrade. If there is a reasonable margin that we can find, that should recoup some of those losses by being able to Sell the Failure (stacks) then that would help players progress.

    The margin, naturally, has to be within a boundary, such that you don't necessarily profit from failing, but don't necessarily lose out further by selling the failure, but recoup just enough reasonably, to continue in your progression.

    Yes, players could cheaply fail to craft Failstacks in such a way that bit "might" be profitable for them to sell them as a marketable item, as a discussion I have to include that possibility, as they do everything else, but I also have to objectively note that they are going to spend that silver that they have gained, in other ways.

    The only "pure currency" is currency that is newly generated, either by Tax Income from Nodes, or by Mob Drops. That is the influx.

    PearlShop silver, or currency that is obtained by the selling of pearl shop items is single direction via real life money. Although the person doing the selling can recycle their silver by buying things also in the market, the injection is one way, with minimum recyclability.

    But currency generated by crafting and selling items on the Marketplace is "purely recycled currency", from one player to another, which doesn't cause influxes or imbalances, unless you're one of those players that literally sits on silver, lol and I know many.

    I would say that farmed materials by workers could be considered a form of pure silver in an abstract way, but its more of a compounding scaled recycled form of currency as you are trading in "worker energy" to generate the materials.

    little bit militant i think, and does not accurately reflect how things work. Yes, there are plenty of players with phenomenal amounts of silver that buy up items on the Marketplace enmasse.

    Yes a new player may see (and I'm using a number I mention previously just to make a point in this response), they have an item that they could sell for 32 mil, and they probably will.

    I don't believe that necessarily hurts them however. Because those players worth bulk silver are upgrading and building their own Failstacks to progress in their own gear journey. As upgrades succeed (sadly) they typically sell that gear on the Marketplace.

    And this is the cycle I mentioned in my response above to the previous poster. It should use another example, even in my own beginning journey I sold relics and blackstones, even though I needed them (as have many) in order to save up enough to buy a nice weapon already upgraded so that I could grind easier.

    Basically what you're saying, and I believe the other player is as well, is that new players will be tempted to sell what they have not knowing its real value because all they see is the silver and thereby screwing themselves over later because in the end journey that's what they need.

    But I don't believe this to be true, because we all sell things we definitely need later on, in order to purchase other things we need now, and then save up to rebut things we sold in the first place


    Tldr, I don't believe "whales with too much silver will just buy everything up" is a legitimate excuse for not including more items in the marketplace.
     
    #35 Andaro, Aug 8, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  16. C6H5CH3

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    The tone was of course deliberately provoking and sarcastic and I've sold hundreds of concentrated stones myself, but I don't regret it because it was at a time when the imbalances weren't as ridiculous as today. Surely a bunch of people would screw themselves over long-term with this, but my point is that it would only serve to make the life of those for whom silver means nothing easier. Wasting hours of your life on one-tapping your Reblath for 5th time, unintentionally succeeding your failstack gear just as you hit a good spot or suffering through duo fails up to 40 stacks for 3rd time in a row is, extreme lucksacks aside, at least one of the last instances in which the game, from the newbie to the 100m/h Hystria hacker treats us equally.
    Positively nothing good can come from it if you take that out of the equation as well.
     
  17. AtomicPotato

    AtomicPotato DarkKnight 62 EU

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    I'm trying to say - Valk's on MP in good, if we have Marketplace, right now we have a dumpster where you throw items you don't need and get some silver in return ( like recycling center)
     
  18. RipVonBongle

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    how about the many items that are egregiously under priced are addressed first? hard/sharps, +1 to 5 silver embroidered clothes, etc.
     
  19. RP Tzuyu

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    well it does get u somewhere.... how many hours do u put into a game as a new players to get full pri set without asula or accessories.....
    how long does it take to make $40???
    i need 2-3 hours to make 40$, but grinding as a new players with no silvers or gears.... and hit a huge wall trying to grind at helm, elric or sausan without gears will cost me more than my hours....
    $40 is a good starting point, invest any more pearls for silver after that is bad choice....
     
  20. LogicaI

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    My responses are in IRRITATING green :D <3 you andaro have a great day buddy. Good content as usual.
    Not awake much yet,also very busy atm,so i don't have time to read comments past your original post

    . I think failstacks should be able to be registered to the MP as blacksmith books,in terms of the following
    +10 fs (5m silver)
    +25 fs (10m silver)
    +50 fs (30m silver)
    +90 fs (200m silver)
    +100 fs (300m silver)

    No higher should be sold (all my opinion,doesn't make it right or wrong)

      • should any level failstack be registrable? Yes
      • Or should only certain levels be registrable? Yes see above
      • If so, what levels should be registrable? Yes see above
      • How much do you think a +20 Failstack should sell for? Would rather 25 fs (10m) see above
      • How much for a +50 Stack? (30m silver)
      • Should only stacks that can be saved via BlackSmith Books be registrable? Meaning that only failstacks +50 and below would be sellable? Or should "pearl-shop" stacks (using the +100 peralshop book) also be allowed? I think this is a good question to help P.A/kakao make more profit(which is important for us to maintain the game) i think that is a good idea,but i also think you should be able to get it in game by difficult means to leverage that.
      • Do you think this would help players gear up? Yes
      • Do you think players would buy and sell failstacks? Yes
      • Do you think it would hurt the balance of power or help it? Help
      • Etc. Etc.

     
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