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Simple solution to Grabs

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Exitious1, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. Exitious1

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    Since one of the CMs thinks their ****ing cute and thought my post was a duplicate to another, I'll just repost it every time they delete it. It's not the same as the other post it was copied to. My idea takes an existing feature and modifies it. The other posts idea adds a new feature that doesn't exist. Mine would get lost in the flood of theirs.

    Make it so Frontal Guard is immune to grabs. Leave Super Armor vulnerable.
    This gives non grab classes some counter play options and some derp derp ninja or striker can't just sprint up and grab you easily. Fair and simple change that gives every class options and more skillful counter play. Frontal guards can be easily broken on most classes and at high ap they are almost useless because 1 skill can destroy your guard.
     
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  2. WizChar

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    Don't take this down @CM's.
     
  3. AZzalor

    AZzalor Hyneria Maehwa EU

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    When someone runs up to you and grabs you, while you just sit there in block...you deserve to be grabbed.

    I totally agree that grabs are too powerful, but not letting them go through frontal guard would not solve the problem, just change the class balance, as some classes have a lot of frontal guards on the skills while some have no frontal guards at all.
     
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  4. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    Fixed it for you :)
     
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  5. AZzalor

    AZzalor Hyneria Maehwa EU

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    there's no need to fix anything when there is nothing wrong.
    Yes, some classes have a grab, some have multiple and some have none.
    But letting grabs get blocked by frontal guard would just shift the balance and not actually make it fair.
    It would shift the balance from classes with grabs to classes with the most fg.
     
  6. irrelevant

    irrelevant Pixelstorm Tamer 62 EU

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    make grab only work on cced people or idle people (as in valk/warriors sitting afk in block)

    superarmor already has enough counters, like how you get oneshot through it by anyone with gear or how they removed 75% of classes's superarmors
     
  7. Exitious1

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    It actually would change the balance.. In the right direction. If someone sits in block then there are 2 options available to you. Destroy the block, or get behind it and cc them or do back attack dmg. This requires more thought process than a mindless walk up and grab. Overall guards on majority of classes are not all that strong. Its mostly just extremely high dp builds, or warrior/valk that have solid frontal guards. The rest generally have a momentary guard until it is immediately broken in high end PvP.
     
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  8. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    Sure it means the grab classes need to think when engaging, but normaly FG only work from the front (frontal part of frontal guard) so getting behind/side and grabbing would still be an option
     
  9. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 62 EU

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    what about classes that dont have a plethora of FGs?
     
  10. Exitious1

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    Which classes in pariticular? Genuine question to find a genuine answer. I would like to see this work and want to work out the details. I know some classes have this issue but they aren't done with class balance anyways. If they made this change I suspect they would rework some classes to incorporate more options. All in all thou, I feel like typically it's the non grab classes that have more frontal guards. Could be wrong though.
     
  11. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 62 EU

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    for example, wizard awakening has 1 (one) frontal guard damage skill - Chilling Wave(13 sec cd)... and all of their other skills cast kinda forever so it is not like they can react to a class that is in their face pressing a grab with a timed FG antigrab counter.

    In preawak they have 2 FG effects. 1st when they start casting Meteor (30sec cd on absolute), 2nd when they start casting Blizzard (1:20 cd). (not during main part of the skill).

    There is also FG effect with C stance switch (which if you use at a wrong time, you are probably very very dead). I guess backpedal block as well in awakening stance. But since basically every class has backpedal block in at least one of their stances, I'd guess it would be too much to allow that to block grabs.
     
  12. Exitious1

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    Yeah I wasn't thinking of allowing S blocks work with it as anyone can do that and easily turn to face the direction you want quickly. Basically either FG attacks and Maybe active blocks as that forces you to sit still. Allowing counter play to the side or back.

    You make a good argument for wizard but I don't believe this would impact the wizard much at all in this case. Good or bad. They currently have no defenses against guard, and they themselves grab generally after ccing an opponent. So in this case you would have to ask yourself, do you care about blocking a grab as a wizard or maintaining your Super Armor rotations and teleporting to reset fights. Or just utilizing the Super Armor rotations in a blob scenario for NWs and sieges.
     
  13. R0GUE

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    Or like I been saying for years have a counter grab system like EVERY FIGHTING GAME EVER!! So like remove the stupid rng with grabs and resistances and give it a small window where when grabed you press lets say E and it will counter grab the person. make it reaction skill based not rng and this will also help non grab classes and make grabs not so broken.
     
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  14. alex20081

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    I agree, that it will be good SA will not affected grabs since there are non grab classes - DK,sork,musa,maeva,witch. grab gives much advantage against these classes after CC nerf. this will increase durability pvp, there will be less 1shot combos after grab and more fair for non grab classes.
    seriosly it is so diffiucult cc when you catch people in sa, guard even far from you and do your combo. for example on sorc i should land someone with float, knokcdown or bound and then do combo, but i got grabed too often, i afraid to approach grab classes.
    still i think grabs should pierce guard or valks warriors will not be countered.

    Unfortunately i dont think devs know about this problem or search solution. even when they have pbt server they afraid to test new mechanics and ideas. they think they done there work after sa, cc nerfs and tamer musa maeva buffs. like ****ing other classes dont need buffs and fair balance.
     
  15. AZzalor

    AZzalor Hyneria Maehwa EU

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    you forget that there is not only the Q block or backwalking block...many skills have frontal guard on it, some classes have many of those, some have none. This would leave classes without fg on the skills very open to grabs, while classes without fg on their skills could always be grabbed out of skills.
     
  16. Exitious1

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    The animations for grabs don't really allow for that though. Idk
    I'm not forgetting anything. Classes that generally don't have grabs have more frontal guards or iframes. Although this probably changed after they SA/FG removal patches.
     
  17. D-text

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    Sometimes i cant believe.

    Do you understand, that grab for like war and valk is the only thing that they can do, and in fact thier grab is unprotected?

    If you change grab that you cannot use it on Frontal Guard, then we dont have point to use it. You have to remember that skills have longer animaction than others.

    Like Merciless compare to other classes floating/knockdown skills have 8432902834 sec casting. Giving grab to every class is also not good idea.

    Musa/Meh with grab - even more Op than ninja and so on

    grab is good, problem is that some classes are forced to use it, cuz they cant do anything other than that.

    Change animaction speeds on classes for some skills, and i bet you will see less grabs, cuz new combos will be avaiable.

    btw people cry on war/valy grab, when ninja have protected grab xD
     
  18. Alrikmerc

    Alrikmerc Grimmdhal Tamer 62 NA

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    Only thing they need to do is remove protection on all grapples. Take it away from Ninja/Kuno/Striker/Mystic and you'll have less ape grab engage.

    There's no reason they should be protected when they do these skills, aside maybe ninja and kuno, but Striker and Mystic gorilla around and do whatever they want on the battlefield, it's good for them and that's fine i guess the devs want them to do that, but when they make a grapple they should be as vulnerable as a Valk or Warrior, even Tamer.
     
  19. alex20081

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    we are displeased with 'grab meta' and discuss it for months and still no CM comment, not talking about korean devs...
     
  20. Rayin

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    We who? reasonable people ask for the nerf of "enhanced grabs", which means grabs with effects, protections, range or success rate not in line with others, as grabs mostly are on classes that lack in a department or another (ranged skills and/or i-frames, SA, FG, mobility, i-frames).

    Others instead ask to remove them indiscriminately because their main class doesn't have them, when there are stronger CC (Pulls, ranged KD).
     

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