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Simple solution to Grabs

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Exitious1, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    As a Musa im sure you feel that PA and possibly heals need to stay, as a Witch im happy to give up bouth PA and party heals as long as i get something decent in return
     
  2. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    id trade it in a nanosec.
     
    Vunak likes this.
  3. Nexius

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    What does playing a sorc have to do with anything?
     
  4. Gavad

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    Every non grab class has a way to avoid being grabbed.
     
  5. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    Its called "stay in safe zone" and "avoid any form of PvP"
     
  6. Gavad

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    Or you know, move two steps in any direction?
     
  7. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    I totaly forgot that all grab classes are statues!
     
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  8. Gavad

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    *non grab classes apparently
     
  9. Foggen

    Foggen Musa 63 NA

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    A mass push with PA in a node war can be devastating, and for a lot of guilds with good organization it's a tactical centerpiece. You must not value teamwork.
     
  10. levinano

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    What’s up with the convo moving to PA - -, let’s go back to addressing grabs can’t we?

    Personally I don’t want a nerf in grabs per se, like ideas suggesting that damage be reduced for combos following grabs. Some classes rely really heavily on grabs while some are strong enough without them and goes through the roof with grabs. Nerfing grabbing itself feels a little over but I would like to see a countermeasure against grabs like implementing the ability to counter grabs with a CC, as in, if they were executed both at the same time, the CC would beat the grab, not the other way around like it is now. I think grabbing people out of FG and SA should still be a thing, and that grabs shouldn’t be canceled by non-CC attacks.

    As a Plum I’m having the biggest trouble fighting Strikers and Mystics while I feel like there’s actually ways to deal with Ninjas. Strikers and Mystics, even after nerfs, feel like they can still rotate SAs and moving FGs making CCs ridiculously difficult. They generally outrun me with movement skills vs my stamina nerfed Chase so there’s little room for the “decide the flow of the battle by Chasing away” play style. And if you try to get close to CC or break their FG they just grab you out of it. If you stand still or walk around to recover stamina they’ll run up to you and grab. If you get close they’ll grab you out of your dashes (desync ftw). Like honestly right now I can fight any other class and win, if not, put up a good fight. Fighting Strikers and Mystics just feel like I’m just getting domestically abused like I can’t even put a scratch on them >.>
     
  11. farsay

    farsay Mystic 62 NA

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    no, because PA, unlike grabs, are a protected area for SIX SECONDS which is a HUGE advantage in mass pvp, and it is too powerful. this is how it goes, PA > jump in spam skills and people will die with little they can do, if you add to that that PA gives 20% resistance, this means that you cant even grab them out of PA, that is if you can get CLOSE ENOUGH TO GRAB, the only grab that is safe is lahns grab, because it has range " but lets leave lahn alone, thats the only thing she got with that stupid flying".

    Grabs are close range and can get resisted, plus other than striker, most classes with grabs have low damage, unless they outgear you by a lot.
     
  12. levinano

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    ^That's why I've said I have no beef fighting any other class lol.


    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying PA isn't awesome, but do remember, this thread was made for the purpose of discussing grabs. There's nothing stopping you from creating a new thread debating PA but you guys are kind of hijacking Nayashe's grab thread, which really needs its publicity, and doesn't fair well when half the thread veers off and starts debating about something else entirely.
     
  13. farsay

    farsay Mystic 62 NA

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    Comparison is a way of discussion, people crying about grabs ignore all the other skills in game that are already superior to grabs, like PA , iframs, and stealth etc
     
  14. Wrapped In Plastic

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    Some classes would just become absolute dumpster tier without reliable grab. Especially the classes that can't break blocks effectively if this change were to take place (which it won't, because it's a terrible idea that I just squatted over and took a dump on)
     
  15. Kayray

    Kayray Tenebrarum Musa 62 NA

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    Or, hear me out, just give grabs a 2.0 cc counter, so you can't get ccd after a grab.
     
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  16. levinano

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    Right, comparisons aid discussions when it compares the main topic to something else for the sake of making it easier to understand. A valid comparison would be something like "grabs are OP just like how PA is OP and they need to be addressed."

    Right now it's not even a comparison to support or debunk the main topic, you guys have pretty much robbed this entire thread and went like "who cares about grabs, PAs needs the nerf!" That's not contributing to the discussion of the topic, that's changing the topic to something else entirely.

    And here I'm saying, I don't disagree with your points, that iframes and PA should be addressed in some way. However, there's nothing stopping you from creating your own thread to debate about it with others instead of doing a discussion of that here. We who "cry about grabs" aren't saying other problematic game mechanics don't exist or don't need addressing, we're just mentioning that grabs is one of them. You, on the other hand, are saying that "all these other problems are more important, ignore these crybabies crying about grabs!"


    Honestly, this is the easiest fix lol...
     
  17. NatashaArisha

    NatashaArisha ShinobuAraragi Witch 61 NA

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    Just make counter-attack skill such as hallucination gap and royal rage counter grab when timed correctly.
     
  18. farsay

    farsay Mystic 62 NA

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    this thread is nothing but a "nerf mystics" thread, most classes with grabs have the dps to kill their target without their grab, fact is, mystic with her current numbers needs the grab to burst down an equally geared target, otherwise people will just slip around and there is no one or two skills that mystic has that can kill them. give mystic more damage, then nerf grabs idc, but stop making selfish suggestions that can break a class.
     
  19. alex20081

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    Grab balance when??
    still strong CC that ignore block, SA and easiest cc to combo.
    Fix it finally. Or grab for everyone)
     
  20. levinano

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    Welp since this thread got necroed might as well speak my mind as of now.

    I think there is a slight change to grabs that could make them less OP, 2 actually, but the second one is often debated upon as a nerf and people hear nerf and burn the suggestion to the ground.

    1. Make the grab CC apply at the end of the grab (arm movement animation that you would do if you were grabbing air) instead of applying the CC the moment someone presses a button.

    This way, it'd still go through FG and SA and still be a amazing thing to have, but it makes it possible for players to react to it and counter play. Currently, grabs happen instantly and when used after a movement ability, thanks to natural refresh rate lags in machines and internet latency, looks like you teleported into someone's grab. Even if you try to predict the grab (baiting by standing still and blocking) you can't dodge at all unless you have an iframe on hand since to you, it'd look like you initiated the dodge but technically didn't on server side and you teleport back into the grab.
    A normal human's reaction time to visual stimuli is 200-250 ms, add 50 ms to that due to internet + screen/input/other sources of latency and you have almost 300 ms. It takes around 300 ms to react to someone dashing into your face and grabbing you, which, since they're acting and not reacting, almost always puts the person reacting at too big a disadvantage.

    In short, the current version allows too little counter play or even a standard way to avoid it. The best way, as of now, is just to constantly keep distance, spam iframes up close, until you see that they attempt and missed the grab, however, not all classes can run around freely/easily or have spammable iframes.....

    2. (optional) Make all grabs unprotected.
    It's a strange idea to have a protected CC that goes through all protections >.> This would make baiting grabs make sense: bait a grab -> dodge -> CC, seems logical, currently it's grab -> dodge -> CC... wait you can't because they're protected >.>

    Or of course there's the change that'll make more people happy than sad I guess: a buff to all classes. Everyone gets 1 or 2 more iframes on their skills ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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