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Sorceress- buffs/nerfs/QoL

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by Netreiam, Mar 8, 2018.

  1. Netreiam

    Joined:
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    Hello everyone,

    Recently the suggestions megathread: (https://community.blackdesertonline...ine-suggestion-megathread-updated-2-13.38256/) has been getting visible attention from the Kakao staff and while there are many good suggestions there is a specific lack of class related changes.

    My intent is to create a thread similar to helbjorneBDO's but focus on the iissue of class balance. My idea is to create a section for each class with opinions from both the mains and general community on their strengths and weaknesses and what can be done to create a balance between them that is healthier for the pvp scene as a whole, this means considerations for mass PvP as well as 1v1 because both are part of the game, whether some view one more relevant than the other or not. PvE balancing can also be a part of the discussion, however I feel like this is more relevant to pvp because some of the worst imbalances can be found there.

    The overall goal of this thread is to create a more balanced class, NOT to match or surpass what many in the general community would perceive as broken.

    This is the third thread for class mains and my goal is to have one to refer to each class in a megathread with the most agreed upon ideas being stated in the post, along with the reason why the idea is being suggested. Sorceress has already had a lot of work done to identify her issues, especially in this thread: https://community.blackdesertonline...ening-and-non-awakening-are-both-weak.133144/
    So this thread is more of a gesture than anything, however if you have anything you want to add to the topic feel free to do so. Also if you know other sorc balance threads that can be referenced or have discussions from third party software screen capped, please post them here to allow for easier collection of the vast amount of work done on this issue.


    Anyway, back to the formalities.

    From you, the Sorceress main community I ask: From your experience, what do you believe sorc needs to have buffed? What do you believe needs to be nerfed? What are some Quality of Life changes you would like to see that don't overtly affect balance, but may make the class more enjoyable to play? Finally are there any bugs you would wish to address?

    For all these suggestions please provide some justification for them. While all responses are welcomed, longer and more detailed ones give me (and hopefully Kakao) a better idea of how you (and by extension the war main community) view(s) sorcs as a whole. Since you are the resident experts on sorc, giving the most amount of info possible to help explain things to those who aren't in the know will help make sure the class isn't nerfed or buffed beyond reason because of popular opinion and not objective analysis.




    Finally, if you have something to say about the class but have not played them, or plan to play them, extensively, please do not post in this thread. It is useful to have outsider opinion, but I want to separate the two so that the Staff (and hopefully devs) know what perspective the class is being seen from.
     
  2. n1ghty

    n1ghty Sorceress 62 EU

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    I'll chime in with my hopefully not balance-breaking suggestions and opinions.

    My first gripe with the class is mainly with midnight stinger.
    Quick Skill usage context:
    We use it to switch back to amulet so we can use our iframes better and dont get stuck in a bad place with no way to protect ourselves outside of blocking. The skill is a cancel for many other skills and as such does not have a way to be canceled itself while being fully unprotected. It has moderate animation speed so there is a good chance to get caught in it.
    This may be less of an issue once they release rabam skills which provide a superarmor skill to use here instead.

    What actually bothers me about this skill:
    Theres another very important part of midnight stinger that is often overlooked.
    Generally skills come with some innate crit chance, especially with awakening many skills tend to offer up to 100% crit chance.
    The sorcs main source of crit is the 10s midnight stinger buff which provides 40% crit chance to us. Consequently our abilities innate crit chance is much lower to compensate for this buff. 40% is a huge deal and is actually a very big part of where our damage comes from.
    Violation, as our hardest hitting skill in our combo, has 0% innate crit chance.
    If I don't use midnight stinger within 10 seconds of attacking someone, I won't be able to kill from a full combo.
    So even if I don't want to switch to amulet I still have to use midnight stinger for the buff so that I can do good damage. This forces me to leave myself open every single time before I try to engage my opponent. The rabam skill does not do that for me.
    I can not buff this in the middle of my combo.
    I would much appreciate if the crit chance from this buff (or part of it) was instead moved to innate skill crit chance for my other skills.

    Often it is brought up to get protection on midnight stinger instead, but in light of the recent discussions in this subforum I realized it might actually be too strong being able to chain iframes with a protected stinger. So i thought about when I actually need to use stinger and why.



    For my next change I am actually not sure what would be the best way to "fix" it.
    It is about protected damage for large scale fights.

    To better understand this issue, we have to dive abit into the mechanics of our beloved skill violation and how it is used to deal damage.
    This will also show why many sorcs feel we don't do enough damage, while we are able to reasonable kill (sort of) in 1v1 situations.

    Violation in-depth:
    Violation is a 2-part skill with forward guard. The skill moves us forward and ignores player collision.
    The first part is the spinning hits. This hits up to 8 times, has a chance to float and benefits from air attack bonus. The 8 spinning hits are distributed over the movement duration of the skill. It is not guaranteed to hit a target with all 8 spinning hits as we are moving during this
    The second part is the slash at the end. This hits 3 times, has a chance to knockdown and benefits from down attack bonus.
    We can immediately cancel the movement by pressing lmb early to trigger the slash and thus end the skill. By doing this, the slash will point in the direction we are facing with the camera.
    The 8 spinning hits make up 66% of the skills total damage, the 3 slash hits make up 33% of the skills total damage at all skill ranks.
    As a side note for later: air attack damage is a much higher modifier than down attack damage.

    How we use this skill:

    We cancel the slow windup of the skill with a running attack (for example after shadowleap), c swap after some of our amulet skills or a block stance trigger. Both of those "cancels" have a chance to float. Running attack is unprotected, the other 2 windups are forward guarded.
    We spin through our target. If our windup cancels managed to float the target we get very nice air attack damage in. At the end of the movement part of the skill we turn around 180 degrees to aim back at our target again and press lmb before the skill initiates the ending slash by itself. If we don't do this the slash will blatantly miss the target. At this point the forward guard is pointing towards our target of course.
    Side note: even though the slash has a chance to knockdown, it is very unlikely to hit the knockdown from it as our targets are often floated by the spin instead.

    The followup:

    After this, we finish the combo with the fully unprotected skills turn-back slash and 2 hits of dead hunt. After this the target is no longer cc'ed and can escape. We can get greedy and do some more attacks here risking to get punished on their wakeup (e.g. by a grab or a quick stiffness). On high gear many classes can translate this wakeup cc into a kill against us.

    The Large Scale fight:

    Obviously on the sidelines of a large-scale fight we can't very well use turnback slash or dead hunt unless we pretty much isolated from the actual fight. (so is this even large scale anymore? i dont think so). However we can't use a proper violation either. Because violation requires us to go through our target and turn around, exposing our unprotected back to all the aoe's going on in the actual fight zone. It is very easy to get clipped by some enemy skill and consequently getting cc'ed and die.

    Our workaround:
    To prevent getting cc'ed immediately, we use an early slash by pressing lmb before we move through our target. This will interrupt the spinning hits early, resulting in only hitting for 2 or maybe 3 spinning hits out of the total of 8. The slash at the end sitll hits for all 3 hits.
    With some quick math we can see that the skill lost ~50% of its potential damage by doing this. Assuming our target could not get floated or is already on the ground, we loose the huge air attack multiplier aswell.
    I hope you can see why in certain situations (like this one) the skill does a lot less damage than it will do in a proper 1v1 combo situation.

    After the canceled violation we can only use grim reapers judgement as a protected damage option to avoid getting hit by the cc going on near the main fight. Grim reapers judgement takes about 1.5 to 2 seconds before it deals damage. At this point the target we were actually attacking is likely escaping or blocking already. We can jump a bit closer to the main fight and try to target its damage into the main fight instead.
    Outside of specific situations, this is the amount of damage we can provide in a large scale fight.

    As we can see, it is very hard to deal significant damage to a specific target outside of 1v1 situations. Even if we land a cc, we can't fully take advantage of the potential air attacks, or in case of bound/knockdowns we simply lack this multiplier entirely.

    Possible solutions:
    Adding some form of protection to either dead hunt or turnback slash would significantly increase the damage we can provide in large scale fights. As far as how this would affect balance I don't know. I don't dare to say it would not be unbalanced, i simply can't judge this properly.

    Turn-back slash feels like a prime example for a superarmor skill to me. It has a long ending animation after the damage which is very comparable to how rangers use their breezy blade, rushing wind, vine knot for protection. However exactly because of this, a superarmor might be unbalanced for it.
    So i think another forward guard might be a more sensible change for either dead hunt or turn-back slash.
    I might even argue for dead hunt instead seeing how turn-back slash has nice cancels itself to get quick damage from it.

    Another idea could be to switch violation from forward guard to superarmor, then we could properly use the skills full potential. However we then loose a good portion of our trade potential. I personally like the possibility to trade damage with a lmb canceled violation slash.
    Sadly trades like this are often not favorable because many skills pass through forward guards (in general, not for this skill exclusively) easily, when slightly angled or used from close up. (like valks hastiludium when slightly angled to the side or ninjas murderous intend where the animation easily clips behind the block).


    Shadow Leap
    This one is an interessting case of how button inputs work in this game.
    The order of button presses is very important, especially on the sorceress class as the wrong order can mess up skills due to our multiple cancels in amulet. This issue however is not about skill canceling. It is about how using shadow leap leaves you unprotected at the beginning of the skill.
    Shadow Leap is an i-frame dash with a 5 second cooldown. The key input is w+f. The Key input order is first press w, then press f.
    In an ideal world we would press w+f instantly at the exact same time. However frame-perfect inputs are not the norm for us human beings.
    If we press f first and then press w after, we will use the skill nightmare instead which does something very different and is also on a much higher cooldown. Obviously we don't want that, we want to use shadow leap. So we press w, then press f "one frame" later (aka as soon as humanly possible). The w key input however will cancel any possible protective stance we took prior to going into shadow leap.
    Common use case is using the i-frame flow: night crow followed by shadow leap.
    But by pressing the w key we opened ourselfes up for a cc. It regularly happens that we want to use a shadow leap to escape from a dangerous situation, only to get immediately cc'd at the beginning of the skill.

    As a psychological fun fact to make this more frustrating, our game client registers the skill usage and the game server however knows that we have been cc'd before the skill activation. The skill cooldown will show even though we didn't actually properly use the skill at all.

    Suggested Solution:
    Change some of our skill key inputs to find a better and more consistent way of activating this skill.
    For example:
    Change the key input for shadow leap to shift+f. This key input is currently unused in our awakening stance and the amulet skill for shift+f (shadow eruption) can not be used from awakening stance. There is no conflict by doing this.
    We can then hold shift and press f afterwards, using shadowleap without having an unprotected gap between defensive skills.

    Blade of Darkness / Flow: Cry of Darkness
    Blade of Darkness is a great skill to grind high end pve areas.
    It's usage in pvp however relies mainly on the flow.
    The targeting range for flow:cry of darkness is mediocre and the damage is average.
    Not something to impress your guildmates in large scale with ;)
    In theory flow: cry of darkness allows us to apply down smash to a downed opponent to prolong a cc chain combo. The down smash by itself works pretty well, however the skill usage is what makes this option bad.
    To use the flow, we have to summon a blade beforehand. The blade lasts roughly 10 seconds after it is summoned. Summoning this blade is unprotected.
    Of course we could summon the blade from a safe distance, however now the main issue with the flow presents itself.
    Flow: Cry of Darkness "throws" the blade as a projectile from its current location towards the target.
    It explodes on impact, inflicting damage and has a chance to apply down smash at this point.
    As we can see, the down smash happenes after impact and the timing of its impact is completely dependent on its current position relative to the target. From a far away distance, it will not impact the target fast enough to apply downsmash because the target will already no longer be on the ground.
    To mitigate this, we can summon the blade closer to our target. However this likely results in us getting cc'd instead.
    The timing to properly apply the down smash is also never the same, as the travel time of the projectile is not constant. Outside of knockdowns it is very likely that the projectile will not impact its target in time.

    Possible Solutions:
    1)
    Blade:
    Add forward guard to blade of darkness so we can summon a blade in preparation without getting easily punished for it.
    Flow:
    Instead of the blade projectile moving at a constant speed, move the projectile at a certain speed such that it always impacts the target after the same amount of time. For example 0.5 seconds? So if i use it with a blade near me it will still explode only after 0.5 seconds, but a blade from far away will reach the target in 0.5 seconds aswell.
    2)
    Make the flow also summon the blade by itself. This removes the need to set up the downsmash combo and removes the inconsistent and unreliable impact timing from the skill.
    This is probably unbalanced.

    Also we can use the flow even when we don't have any active blades of darkness, which is pretty much pointless.

    Grim Reaper E buff

    Our awakening buff does not have superarmor on use. Being interrupted will still put the skill on a 3 minute cooldown. This is rather disheartening and I do not see any reason why this would be good.
    Many of the newer classes have superarmor on their awakening buff skill, rightfully so.
    I firmly believe this should be the case for every class.

    With this big part out of the way, let us delve into less pressing issues and QoL Suggestions.

    Ultimate:Shadow Eruption

    This skill acts more like a flow than an ultimate. It can only be used after shadow eruption. It has a quite significant animation time and is fully unprotected. This combination makes this skill highly unusable. Our best application for this skill is to surprise people who incorrectly judge it's range. Also generally people do not expect this skill to be used against them ever. This is highly situational and going for it usually works more against us than for us.
    I do think superarmor for the skill would be reasonable to make it more usable. I do not think it would break the balance in any way as it is impossible to use the skill directly by itself as a defensive way for the superarmor effect only.

    Dark Trade
    This skill recovers 30 shards of darkness at the cost of 10% of our max health.
    Shards of darkness are used by many sorceress skills. We can also buff us and nearby allies with +20 ap for 20 seconds by using 30 shards of darkness. Generally we want to have this buff active at all times and recover the 30 shards to use with our other skills. However dark trade has a cooldown of 25 seconds, which as you can see does not line up very well with the 20 second ap buff.
    It would be a nice QoL change to lower the cooldown to ease the shard generation pressure. Especially because we can not generate shards of darkness in awakening this would imo enhance the gameplay experience for us sorcs. I don't think lower cooldown would be an issue as there is a health cost attached to the skill so I highly doubt there's a way to "abuse" it.

    Abyssal Flame
    Many people criticize the skill for its unsuited key input of lmb+rmb. It interferes with how dark flame works and since it is a charge up skill it can completely interrupt gameplay when we accidentally use it. For example when there is lag, it is easy to have the key inputs registered incorrectly, thus activating this instead of the protected dark flame, in turn getting us cc'd and killed. For this very reason, the majority of the sorceress population has this skill locked and never uses it.
    In theory it is a fun medium ranged skill with low aoe and low-moderate damage. It heals us for 12% of our maximum hp on hit (not on cast! *cough* mystic *cough*) when off cooldown.

    While I don't have a better suggestion for the keybind, i would very much like to see the charge time removed from the skill. It feels outdated and too slow for the current fast-paced character of combat after awakening released.

    I would suggest allowing us to hotbar abyssal flame and remove the charge up from the skill. The casting time is in no proportion to the skills utility/damage.
    This would make the skill more usable and prevent interference from normal gameplay aswell.
    Having the charge up removed would not affect the balance in my opinion, as we can already animation cancel the charge up by using the skill after using night crow backwards which will use the already-charged version of the skill.

    Absolute Darkness
    Absolute Darkness is part of our ranged attack amulet skills related to RMB. While pretty much all the RMB skills are entirely useless and unneccessary, baring black wave for pre-awakening grinding, this one is in my opinion a good candidate to change exactly that.
    The absolute: absolute darkness (nice name btw lul) now actually deals some damage. While the aoe is still not much, it has the potential to be a nice ranged poke.
    Absolute Darkness does not carry any cc effects and is therefore only useful to poke some damage from a safe distance. However the attack range of the skill is not that high which very much makes this not a good idea to use.
    Increasing the attack range of this skill sounds like a nice QoL improvement to me. It does not cc the target and also does not do massive damage. I don't think this would negatively impact the balance of the game.
    Even if it did, i would gladly take a medium cooldown on this ability in exchange for increased attack range.



    And finally, I think some of our skill names incorrectly reflect their purpose.
    We have ultimate versions for midnight stinger, dark flame, night crow, crow flare and shadow eruption.
    While ultimate midnight stinger, utlimate crow flare and ultimate nightcrow unlock the ability to cancel certain skills with them, ultimate dark flame and ultimate shadow eruption are actually their own respective skills and can only be used after using normal dark flame or shadow eruption respectively. So those two skills actually act like flows.
    I suggest renaming them to flow: dark flame and flow: shadow eruption to more clearly indicate what they do.
    This will also consistently reserve the "ultimate" skill name for animation cancel abilities.
     
  3. BloodyPleasure

    BloodyPleasure Sorceress 62 EU

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    Good luck with your project mate. I kinda doubt that it's possible to manage this dimension of feedback at all, but really, best of luck.

    Since I'm not gonna repeat stuff we already had way earlier, here is another link for you https://community.blackdesertonline...-thread-sorceress-feedback-improvement.51292/

    Aside from Hellbjorne's suggestion thread, Sorceress and Ninja feedback (moderate, objective, asking for fixes/balances/rework of certain mechanics) has been forwarded to the Devs several times already. I've been told by reliable sources that PA more or less rejects information heavy wall of text issue lists. Well, it doesn't hurt to try again and making suggestions to get things done is always fine.

    Just wanna add two minor things to the list:

    - 100% Black Spirit Rage consume (Z) is a total joke just providing a 60 second 25% movement speed buff
    - add lock function for 100% Dream of Doom ultimate only, I don't want to lock regular DoD or 100% Cartian's Nightmare, just the 100% DoD
     
    LunaValentyn and Bumggez like this.
  4. Irini

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    - Add SA to Turn Back Slash (off CD):
    This would help sorcs at least to get some more damage in large scale fights and wouldnt affect 1v1 too much. CD of the skill could then even be made higher by 1 second to prevent "SA spam"

    - Add SA to the start and the end of Shadow Leap, give the uppercut frontal guard.
    Its just ridiculous to have an iframe that has enormous gaps at the end and the start of its animation, making it highly risky and unreliable.

    - Lower CD of Cartians Nightmare to 25 seconds. Add +5% accuracy to it.
    The Skill is extremely slow, locks you into an animation, is stationary, the AOE area is pretty low and it has no (zero) accuracy on it. There is absolutely no need to have it on a cd of 45sec. The thing with cartians is, other classes wouldn't even bother putting SP into such a mediocre skill. But since sorcs have nothing else in large scale, we are pretty reliant on it.

    - Compeletly cut and renew Blade of darkness and Flow:Cry.
    I dont really know how to start with this one though. There is so much wrong and atrocious with these two skills. No protection, high shard costs, absolutely no damage, no purpose.
    As n1ghty proposed before, casting the Blade with frontal guard could be a start. Increasing the animation time massively would also be necessary. Cut the ****ing shard cost. And then fix the damage of the Flow:Cry. The skill should do 3x1800% damage on sheet. But if you use it on a non protected standing target, it takes about 100dmg. This is not acceptable in any way.

    - Sinister Omen.

    Ahahahaha, sorry was just joking. This skill is just Pearl Abyss' way to show sorcs the middlefinger everytime they open their skillsheet. Keep it as it is. Glorious! Pure gold!

    - Violation:
    Keep everything as it is. Its a good skill with its downsides and weaknesses. But just give it at least +8% accuracy. This would make sorcs not so extremely reliant on Accuracy builds. Because of this, the whole new AP/DP meta has nerfed sorcs more than any other class. While this may sound like a small fix, I think this would be one the most important ones!

    - Magic damage
    If you want to have strikers/mystics as a counter to wiz/witch, fine do that. But please for the love of god, let us do at least a tiny bit of damage against them as well. Maybe change scythe skills to melee damage?
     
    #4 Irini, Mar 8, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  5. PanpanTheGreat

    PanpanTheGreat Sorceress 61 EU

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    Sorc has one if the not the worst accuracy issue in this game forcing sorc to use accuracy gear to even hit a target. By doing this you sacrifice your AP making sorc low DPS even lower. If you build full AP you miss way too much so you still do **** damage anyway.

    Example of **** accuracy on sorc with 100% crit buff lul --> https://streamable.com/ktwst / striker gear --> https://i.imgur.com/zmGLJvO.png
     
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  6. Askore

    Askore Sorceress EU

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    nerfs - 4 or 5s hard cd on iframe - so **** sorcs have to learn to play and sorc v sorc can be fun
    - DoD radius - even tho it's a nonfactor except for salty tamers

    and fix emergency so it can be used in KD

    buffs - SA on cancelled (not normal) turnback slash - so we can deal dmg
    - block on the first 2 hits of dead hunt - so we can deal dmg
    - reliable downsmash on GRJ - so we can kill someone above 260dp
    - SA on midnight stinger but with slightly higher cd (3s instead of 2) - so we have a safe swap and a protected engagement skill to chain after shadow leap
    - +20 or 30% crit rate on z buff instead of movement speed - so it makes sense to throw away blackhole
    - nightmare cast sped up by 35% or so - so we can react faster to ppl engaging on us and make it more viable as an engage
    - superarmor on z and e buff - because 90% of the classes have it
    - (((((((maybe))))))) unprotected float grab in unawakened so we can kill ppl in 1v1 but it would still be useless in mass

    on top of that
    bugfix - the protection gap before awakened iframe

    sorc would still be pretty weak without grab and without iframe spam but it would be viable and a lot more fun to play
     
    #6 Askore, Mar 8, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  7. LunaValentyn

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    this alone would make most of everything else invalidated, everyone would just get up so you'd have to CC them twice to get 1 KD, we deal with enough SA already and a valk or mystic may only make 1 mistake. Just play on the pvp channel where the weird settings are already in with KD.
    find one other sorc who would want this. Just 1
     
  8. Askore

    Askore Sorceress EU

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    nobody wants it because people are biased

    i'm not
    (i haven't asked but im pretty sure a lot of good sorcs would trade that for the other needed buffs that I proposed)

    iframe spam is op and annoying and isn't necessary for sorc, 4s cd is already spammable enough and almost doesn't change anything except for garbage players chaining one iframe after another

    i'm not even sure you know how it would feel with how much pvp you do
    when I watch vods of my rbfs (because I don't have anything to do recently) it's hard to find a moment where i chain two iframes together and it's when i'm getting zerged and overwhelmed and that wouldn't happen as often if we had decent dmg protection, blocks and a good swap.

    that's by far the most biased thing i read today, kd blocking emergency is the most awful and disgusting mechanic in the game right now (with grab engages)
     
  9. LunaValentyn

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    still why would we take 4 sec when scythe has 2 sec, scythe would just become inherently better for that. Still squishy too so SA only goes so far as a squishy melee class. Gonna turn us into tamerXmystic cross >.> Even if we don't iframe twice in a row, that would screw with the mobility loop. Not biased, that's just one of the big class gimmicks. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone ok with that and I would be surprised if more sorcs didn't chime in to explain it even better honestly. I mean why would anyone amulet at all when the things you proposed would make scythe a million times safer.
    not biased just because it would be a huge nerf to us, would also effect other classes. I mean if I just wanted to sustain, I'd be a tank class. It would be absolutely OP on some classes to be able to V out of a KD though(anything with high mobility or SA spam). May as well just take out down smash all together and make grapple not able to apply for X amount of sec after a person gets up, practically the same thing. This would also be a huge nerf to some other specific classes as well like Musa/maewha and dark knight. Sure they would be able to get up more often to dance around but they would also be in a similar boat to sorc atm needing to CC someone twice. Musa/maewha would be fighting those perfect SA chains like us and DK would just end up having practically no good CC since she has SA spam to fight but also only one ranged KD and she relies on staying ranged, she couldn't just try again, she would need to dance around extra and risk a high focus enemy wearing her down even further. So anything without a grapple would have an uphill battle with SA if that happened.
     
    #9 LunaValentyn, Mar 8, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  10. airhead

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    overall I think there are two general directions:
    1. slow down i-frames and put SA on stuff
    2. fix the itemization problem with accuracy

    I like PanPan's point: fix the accuracy issue, keep sorc unique, high-risk/high-reward type class, i-frames, low SA, but able to stack high AP instead of all this accuracy crap and get kills in a fast assassin style....
     
  11. Askore

    Askore Sorceress EU

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    **** off with the "it's going to become mystic" meme, everything will still be different from mystic, just because you take away iframe spam won't make sorc exactly like another class, it just sounds retarded

    scythe has 2cd but is a lot shorter and is the only "spammable" mobility we have in awakening

    it's true we will be squishy but with dp/eva buff and a few blocks it should be ok, and shadow leap is also an iframe so you can still iframe > swap > iframe > shadow leap and stay mostly in iframe (you just can't spam it)

    people would use amulet because it's better to have both than one? and with stinger sa you will actually be able to use both.
    your logic is clearly from someone that has low experience, not to be insulting or anything (even tho i would love to). and 1- awakening should be better than unawakened anyway, 2- awakening being better doesn't mean unawakened is obsolete.

    no idea what you mean, emergency has 4min cd so you almost wouldn't notice the change
     
  12. LunaValentyn

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    Shadow leap would need what N1ghtly proposed up there(key swap) to be reliable enough though, the W thing is a mess and since it isn't a directions(asd) skill, it makes sense. +Storming Crow bound gets lost then(because who would use the iframe for that if it has a 4 sec CD?). DP/EVA buff to help us sustain would also add a somewhat tanky aspect to the class and totally change the play style. If we are decently tanky with decent SA, then we are just another average melee brawler. I keep mentioning mystic though because she's the "new hip cool" melee brawler atm. Is she the only one? no but why throw another in there? Changes play style we have atm(high risk high reward is good when it works).

    As for awakenings, they were a mistake imo as a whole. I don't want to use the scythe, I want to use the kit I picked when I started the game. We would only end up dipping into amulet to use MS, NC, and shards kind of like now >.> but I'd rather dump the scythe as a whole and play iframe and attack roulette. Where's the sorc? over here? over there? well it's not that hard to track but it does screw with people in open world and large scale.
    still adds double the risk to any class without a grapple in 1v1 and in large scale it would allow classes to be braver(like wizard diving a group which already happens but he would be able to do it even safer and every 4 minutes with no punishment even if he gets CCed, wizards already dive in and V buff out, this just adds even more forgiveness to that).
     
  13. Askore

    Askore Sorceress EU

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    i'm the one that explained it to him and you can just hotkey shadow leap like I did to fix the issue
    also happens with grj if you don't have vile plan locked and more importantly dark flame (this one can't be fixed so you have to be careful)
    it's useless anyway
    are you ****ing retarded? we already have a dp and an eva buff, and guess what it doesn't make us a brawler
    removing few iframes and adding few SA wont change it, you're seriously getting annoying pulling this **** every single reply
    sorc will still be sorc w/e you do as long as you don't change half of its skills
    then **** off to another game or play on a private server but don't reply to me saying you want scythe to be weak because you don't like awakenings



    also stop answering to me, it's getting worse and worse every single time
     
  14. LunaValentyn

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    he's the one who mentioned it here
    has potential, a lot of players don't see it coming if you go through them
    that DP and eva buff is almost nothing(eva one is nice but dp is just basic life to not insta-squish in most cases), I had assumed you were suggesting a further Dp and Eva buff >.> We'd still be squishy though and end up on the outside of most skirmishes because we can't build DP, no room when we need that much ACC which is again, not something you mentioned. Being on the outside still but now with less to counter the other classes out there who come at you with straight damage +Mobility drop because rip mobility loop.
    not weak, just amulet to be equally valid. You're kind of a massive ******* though, even the same syllables as your name already, fits really well.

    And looks like you dropped the V buff bit even if you won't say anything about doing that part.
     
    #14 LunaValentyn, Mar 9, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  15. Askore

    Askore Sorceress EU

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    mobility loop is useless, funny how you keep bringing up useless things
    are you ****ing kidding me?

    ill be kind for the last time because i haven't exactly explained it already

    in mass pvp if you don't want to die you're forced to play extremely safe which means you can't use any unprotected skills, can't charge in SA next to grab classes, can't use blocks when there's anyone close to be behind you etc. that's what top players do (so i guess you wouldn't know)
    other classes don't have to do it to this extent because they can stay protected and be agressive at the same time but on sorc you can't.
    but everytime you have your v up you're allowed once again to use cancelled tbs, violation in a group of people or extent your cartians nightmare next to a zerg.

    some people don't do this and prefer to play it safe but imo it's the only thing that can keep sorc fun and what's allowing it is v, and it's what the skill is supposed to do

    now when there's a random class that kds you and you can't press v it completely ****s the player and the purpose of the skill.
    it's just like v becomes rng and you can escape death but only if you're lucky
    kd blocking emergency has no place in bdo and shouldn't exist

    i told you not to reply anyway, this is a suggestion thread for the op guy to know what people want and theres no reason to argue here in the first place, especially when you're a random player, not even softcap level when it takes 15 hours that never did pvp with the best players of your server.

    i shouldn't even be answering to you, it feels like someone qualified trying to argue with a high school student and it feels disgusting.

    next time you quote me i'll be ignoring you, pm me on discord if you want to spam useless things @Askore#2076
     
  16. LunaValentyn

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    can approach someone pretty safely until you get to the MS part which you can sub for NC
    Basic info
    now who is biased.

    IF you could use V in a KD, witchards would use PA, port into a crowd, nuke like hell, and escape without even worrying about CC still. That's a problem. Classes without a grapple still double the risk in an engage in 1v1 like open world.
    wow, I totally respect you and don't think you're an ass so I wouldn't wanna upset you :o oh wait
    accept why not let him also know what we don't want because who know what will actually be taken out of this when all of the other threads have been sent in pretty much to no avail and that's the one thing that is generally new.
    so random to see me in a place I frequent right? lol not that I know who you are either so to speak when it comes to in game reputations >.>
    because sinking that into this class in this game when the devs ignore us an everything is terrible is practical and way more important than school and social life? >.> this is irritating though, all this buzzing on my phone. This isn't pleasant for me either.
    yet someone qualified could educate the high school student where you just dip to insults when someone disagrees.
    kk, Idrc, I'm putting this out as my public opinion, I am arguing because I disagree publicly with what you have said publicly. I don't really care about your personal opinions
    ew no, I don't care if you don't see this post at all, I don't want to have any personal interactions with you. That's practically my public opinion at this point too. Smart to put your discord out where anyone can see it on the internet though, I'm sure no trolls will stumble across that especially in the sorc forums where we have resident trolls on a regular basis. But Please do block me on here and once I believe you have, I may just do the same in return. Pretty sure Lemon already has and it's rather nice.
     
    #16 LunaValentyn, Mar 9, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  17. Askore

    Askore Sorceress EU

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    i see so you're some random **** player that doesn't even do pvp trying to discredit what I say by making it look controversial when I'm one of the few sorcs that know what he's talking about in this forum (and can back it up ingame)

    anyone that is on bdo eu or ihaeu can talk to me on discord anyway, as you can see i'm still talking to you so I couldn't care less about trolls

    idk what it does on this forum but i'm ignoring you
     
  18. LunaValentyn

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    but you replied tho, that's not how it works.
    then nothing you say or do is gonna happen because they favor the masses. Don't even need to quote the rest, that statement alone speaks for itself. You would have to convince all the sorcs and other classes to agree with you to get anything done so what's the difference between my opinion and yours if neither matter(see above) and why don't the others ever support you hardly? I mean I only act this salty towards you and if someone else explained something, I'd probably be a lot less against it. Let's see some players other than you who disagree with me disagreeing with you. That made more sense before I read it back...but meh
    welp, I don't want to talk to you there still :/ that's fine if you want it out there and can put up with potentially random spam but why would I want to talk to you personally when all you do is throw insults?

    The V buff change should be controversial too, the CD on iframe is controversial too. I throw out buzzwords like "2nd mystic" but those 2 things(V change, iframe change) are the big issues honestly and they should be controversial topics. I'm not the only one who needs to be convinced after all and you said the sorcs are biased but back to "one of the few", the few won't get much done if they can't convince the masses(though Pearl Abyss is random and just might pick up select parts, either way worth a discussion/argument)
     
    #18 LunaValentyn, Mar 9, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  19. PanpanTheGreat

    PanpanTheGreat Sorceress 61 EU

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    @Askore i don' t see how sorc would survive with 4 sec cd on iframe with only the changes you suggested. Adding a FG on DH is not gonna save us. All you did there is take away iframe and allow for better combo almost exclusively in a 1v1 situation.
    We already have "infinite" FG amount with cartian protection, so you didn't add anything for survivability. Having SA on standing still skills maybe nice when you are a witch/wiz witch OP mana shield and SA that reduces damage, sorc has nothing of that and will just insta blow up or insta get grab and then blow up. We don't have magical back to full health skills too.
    That nerf to iframe is just plain retarded without counterpart.
    People don't spam iframe coz they are noob, they do it coz it s the only way to be safe as sorc. The only thing limiting iframe is stamina and it s already a big deal to manage it correctly. If you think iframe is still too spammable you increase stamina cost, but personnaly i don't think iframe on sorc as they are now is a problem.
    The closest to what you have suggested would be ranger, in a very nerfed state (**** damage / **** mobility / no range skills) and even them have more iframe than what you suggested.
     
    LunaValentyn and Riverwren like this.
  20. Jurra

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    Rip thread already wtf is wrong with you two jesus christ
     

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