1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

stop nerfing to balance

Discussion in 'PvP' started by DanksRippin, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. Rayin

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    3,387
    Likes Received:
    4,533
    Because finally since almost everyone ends up on ground for the lack of protections, Heilang alone can CC you, while before it couldn't.
    So now a Tamer can successfully 2 vs 1 you from the beginning when you engage her, CC her and then proceed to do some damage, unless you're Mistik, Ranger or another Tamer.

    "Balance is when my class does good in every scenario and yours doesn't in every scenario." - Albert Einsten words two days before he published the General Relativity
     
    Chaos Ronin likes this.
  2. Gavad

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2017
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    127
    Someone on the forums who knows what they are talking about! Thank you for your post.
     
  3. Faoiltiarna

    Faoiltiarna Tamer EU

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    252
    Likes Received:
    181
    Sorry what? I said there is little to no counterplay and thats true, all those mechanics can be HARDLY countered at high gameplay level.

    Warrior could for example permanently stay in iframe/sa cause of lingering SA - only counterplay is a grab. Grab is harder to land compared to other ccs which u have plenty off and that become useless against such mechanic. Some classes never even had grab in the first place, how is it even a discussionm that it should stay? Was it a deserved nerf? I think it was.

    Stealth was not nerfed as hard as it should, it isn't too op in mass pvp or non 1v1 scale but in 1v1 it absolutely breaks it, especially after cc changes. Should it be nerfed? Imho stealth not as much as cc from stealth, we don't want to hurt the core mechanics of the class for the sake of balance (which happened to tamer sadly but thats a different story).

    Regarding zerk - fully justified nerf on cannon spam. You could cancel it and move around while shooting and deal enormous damage. It was just absurd with people winning the fights with just this skill only, strong in 1v1, strong in small/mid scale and SUPER op on castle sieges. Zerks still have this ability but it is time gated which i think is a good compromise for a nerf.

    I thought my examples are pretty clear. Mechanics that are toxic and unfair should be nerfed to not be so. Mechanics should have clear outplay potential and clear weaknesses and strengths and some classes simply do not follow that path. Buffing other classes with more cancerous mechanics will not make the game fun, it will make the game more cancerous in the end. And if it is your class being the cancerous one then im sorry but you are not FUN to fight against.
     
    HucKa, EvL and Delolith like this.
  4. Delolith

    Delolith Kakita Ninja 62 EU

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2016
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    132
    Finally some logic....
     
  5. Noixi

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Messages:
    746
    Likes Received:
    292
    QFT to the OP.
    NERFING to achieve BALANCE is a form of BALANCE MONGERING.
    And it should NEVER be done.
    Always and ONLY tweak combat/pvp "balance" by buffing those weaker, and allowing more things into the combat.
    And when I say add more things, I'm not referring to game mechanic changes, just simple things like more Alchemy potions/elixirs, more scrolls, more Villa buffs. Just simple things, to give those deemed weaker an edge to deal with those deemed UNBALANCED.
     
  6. Shuriyo

    Shuriyo Michizoe Ninja 62 EU

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2016
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    64
    If all we do is buff, we end up with a game where the first one to click their win button wins...
     
  7. Noixi

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Messages:
    746
    Likes Received:
    292
    LOL, no. Buffing can improve ones DP you know.
    Not just AP.
     
  8. irrelevant

    irrelevant Pixelstorm Tamer 62 EU

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2,186
    Likes Received:
    5,413
    lol what am i even reading

    every single class in bdo had the ability to be in 100% sa/block/iframe uptime before, now only some do and not all of them do. I understand writing edgy and unpopular opinions but at least don't write bs that simply isn't true. Keeping up your protection-rotation was SKILL based and every class could do it with NO EXCEPTION. It wasn't a class issue it was a player skill issue. NOW ITS A CLASS ISSUE because they took away SA almost randomly and some classes kept lower cd sa or skills with better after-animations or more skills.

    now you need to be "reactive" wTF? now you have 3 times less skills you can use and desync is a much bigger issue than before. Because of desync the game runs 0,3 sec in the past and back in the past you could use 4x skills and then repeat them with no downtime and be 100% sa uptime in a 30 sec window so it doesnt matter if you got hit and the game saw you 0,3 sec in the past cause you were in SA/FG

    Now when you use skills in a 30 sec window of time you'll be unprotected half of the time and that half of the time gives more chance to the game for those 0,3 delayed seconds to get u cced despite actually channeling the SA now. On top of that all the unprotected skills are pretty much either unusable either stupidly risky and you're just deluding yourself if you think you're skilled when you use an unprotected skill and you don't get punished for it in a game where you can literally be hit outside of your screen or from hide or from 300km/h classes that can enter your screen and cc you before you channel a single ability

    the pvp was 30000000 times more skill-based before and its not even my opinion its a fact. THe fact that i could win 1v5 before and i can't win 1v5 now (unless i 1shot them with ult or they suck cause they buffed ults so much so that every trash player can feel relevant every once in awhile while bvefore you had to be good enough to use it in the proper time since it wasn't so over the top). The less skill based the game is the stronger different factors like numbers and gear are. I could win before because i could outplay people and now you can't outplay people cus you dont have the same amount of skills and cus they buffed the dmg so a bad player now does more dmg so you'll die easier. Saying that bdo's pvp after the changes is better is the most delusional and blatantly wrong bs there ever is


    > classes lost inequal amount of SA/FG/Iframe uptime and some lost more than others and classes might not be supposed to be equal but at least before everyone had a way to achieve 100% uptime on defense and now not everyone does so the people that don;'t lost more than others
    > they buffed the dmg to stupidity and beyond which benefits numbers cause 1 person no matter how good he is can only cast X amount of skills in X amount of time but 5 people can cast 5x as much and now that the dmg is so high that 1 person will die before being able to kill anyone and then defend himself and slowly clear them out. higher dmg means shorter fights which means less skill based with higher punishment/reward. If you died from 1 punch in a fighting game then the game would be a joke and not really skill based and that's why there's the concept of combos and baiting and defense and what not cus theyre harder to execute and require more skill.

    One of the reasons why templar vs templar in aion was my favorite matchups was cause it took so much skill but to non-templar players and outsiders it looked like a slow boring fight where 2 ppl mash each other for 2-6 minutes and everyone is snoozing from boredom but as a templar player myself that litteraly won every single duel ever i knew that isn't the case cus while in the actual fight i was outplaying my enemy on individual movements and over time it added up so it ended that i always won. If we both died in 1 hit then if a single time he either outplayed me or got lucky and hit me before i hit him then id die and i wouldnt have 100% win rate


    sure it happened and now it happens even more as i briefly explained above. The reason why you get cced in SA is cus the game is delayed cus of inferior coding and the less protection you have the more often you'll get cced in protection cus you'll use unprotecteD > protected skill then get hit during your protected skill but since ur enemy is delayed you'll get cced. If you only have protected skills you wont get cced cus protecteD > protected > doesnt matter if he's delayed or not

    it took skill before cus you could use FG against SA and do damage while taking 0 damage and you could sustain your hp and win over time or you could use a better SA ability than your enemy for the moment and win the trade. For example using murderous intent (ninja stiffness sa low cd low dmg) against tamer fire staff (sa with high dmg) would be a misplay cause you'd get hit for more damage even if you didn't get cced. I dont understand why do i even have to explain like im talking to first graders
    before you had 30 skills now you have 10 skills, obviously it was more skill based before. People were whining about SA and FG and CC saying that the game should only have face damage like older games (lineage 2, aion, and even gw2) where you hit your enemy and he just takes dmg without getting cced but that makes no sense whatsoever. If every single ability is a CC(like before) and if you have a high number of SA/FG then its skill based for you to be constantly protected and if you drop your protection and get cced then you die and that sounds fair and it requires more player action than if you just stood there and face-tanked abilities without having to do anything

    active defense > no defense/passive defense (by armors and buffs) = obviously it takes more skill


    people are talking like SA made you immortal or smt, you still took stupid amount of damage in superarmor before and it was fine.. better than now

    if the game was better it wouldnt have 10 times less ppl interested in it
    yes that's why if you make it more skill based better players can make worse classes work better

    bdo was pretty imbalanced before but since skill mattered you could still play the game and there were only a few major issues that had to be fixed (mostly bugs) compared to now. Now the game is a joke , where do i even start

    anyone that thinks bdo now is more skill based than before is a complete clown that was never actually good on the old system

    and don't tell me i didn't play the new system enough, literally got 20k kills in 20 days on my alt char without even trying too hard
     
    DanksRippin, HucKa, Rayin and 2 others like this.
  9. randal2143

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2017
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    6
    THIS....THIS RIGHT HERE. I LITERALLY FEEL LIKE I'M PLAYING ROCK PAPER SCISSORS WHEN I DUEL ANYMORE. THE ONLY WAY I LOOSE TO CERTAIN CLASSES OR CERTAIN CLASSES LOOSE TO ME IS IF ONE OF USE MAKE A HUGE MISTAKE!!!! I also feel very limited on the skills I can actually use.
     
  10. Foxens

    Foxens ID0 Ninja 61 EU

    Joined:
    May 3, 2017
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    197
  11. Sacrifuce

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2018
    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    36
    Isnt that the whole point of the duel since a longass time ago, back then only mystic has least counterplay, the rest stay on rock,papper,scissor duel game.
     
  12. Rayin

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2016
    Messages:
    3,387
    Likes Received:
    4,533
    That's why i love Mystiks claiming that their class is weak while they have the biggest amount of protected CC in game, a pull, a mini-PA, high mobility, the highest DP pool along with Zerk and a "lingering" i-frame (Wolf's Frenzy) that has a final stiff and can be chained with grab quickly enough if you've been caught in the last hit. I call it lingering because i managed to break Wolf's Frenzy only during the first kick, never managed to break it in any other moment, so i guess the i-frames extends to the other kicks.

    Still there are people that never played any other class or played them only when they were in a good position and now don't know anything about the current class balance, thinking that their class is underpowered because it requires 5 AP more than the classic softcap to mince people like a meatgrinder. People, while some classes are currently struggling with a single person and in a scenario like 1 vs X are bound to die, even if it's a 1 vs 2, while a Mystik laughs in le French if the opponents are just two.

    Try to damage a Mystik via trade damage if she's standing still and with the same gear she'll get no damage, but if you are CC'ed by mistake she'll kill you to death and beyond three times before you'll get up.
    If she's on ground instead, you must hope that all of your downsmashes may proc else you're gonna deal with her again.

    > Increase the Gear Gap to boost the sale of Artisan Memory and push people to melt Outfits and say that you're doing it for the Community to hear their "Awwwwwwww ♥" then proceed to laugh of it in le French language when part of it defends you on forum <
     
  13. Rysingmoon

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    558
    Likes Received:
    176
    All classes have been nerfed the last couple months, except Wiz Witch. That's why they buff Wiz/Witch.
    Other classes have been hit much more than other classes, that's why they nerf damage from Rangers on top of crippling the mobility with the stamina changes.

    Other classes went through roughly unchanged, that's why we have Ninjas and Kunos - and Sorcs.

    You see, there's a lot of logic behind which us mortals do not understand.
     
  14. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,707
    Likes Received:
    8,046
    u r delusional.
     
  15. Rysingmoon

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    558
    Likes Received:
    176
    Please answer me these questions:

    - Had the stamina change effect on your damage and DPS?
    - Had the stamina change effect on PvP (group or 1vs1)?
    - Had the stamina change effect on mobility?
    - How many (useful) skills can be casted in SA and have CC and high damage?
    - Did your damage noticeable decrease because some of the balancing effects?
    - Did you get a block stance in addition to having self heal and self protection?
    - Do you have to use more MP and HP potions than before?
    - Die you more often in PvE due to having less FG and less SA on your skills?
    - Has your original role changed in group PvP?
    - Do you have to employ completely different tactics and skill combos to be more effective in grinding / PvP?
    - Are there any combos/tactics that have been made impossible due to the changes?
     
  16. Rysingmoon

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2016
    Messages:
    558
    Likes Received:
    176
    I suspect Ninja? Understandable then.

    However, please consider not everyone is playing a Ninja.
     
  17. Spartakatz

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2016
    Messages:
    6,799
    Likes Received:
    4,102
    FOTM rerollers fully deserve all the nerfs. seems you can't play without being OP huh?
     
  18. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    9,707
    Likes Received:
    8,046
    Cc only on first hit affected our dps and survivability. Way less special attacks(down attack) due to it. More people reaching us and deleting us.
    Blizzard damage nerf is huge(like... what damage?) in mass pvp. Water sphere split damage nerf also lowered ranged damage.
    PA got longer cd. Loss of cc on some skills means people can walk to us while we are animation locked and simply grab us and delete us. Rabam heal was nerfed. Rabam eq lost cc. Freeze combos were ruined with cc changes. Summons have fixed ap boost. Hellfire losing fg was big hit as well. Grab lost protection. Ulti got nerfed. Probably forgot some other crap as well. If anyone thinks we werent nefed, I will repeat - they are delusional.
     
  19. Spartakatz

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2016
    Messages:
    6,799
    Likes Received:
    4,102
    Thing is, if one class has a significant advantage, it's much easier to nerf that, instead of trying to buff other 15 classes at once. That will most likely never work and creates just more imbalance.
     
  20. Hypotermia

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,113
    Likes Received:
    1,117
    Too bad that insta kill was always part of game at higher AP's. Currently when player has PEN armors with caphras levels its not insta kill anymore.

    Also renown score or the hidden AP part was in game way before we saw it. They might have done adjustments later on but it was definetely in game and ppl at high ap still insta killed others.
     

Share This Page