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STOP the Marketplace bots!

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Tiresias, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. Andaro

    Ambassador

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    Actually I'm surprised you can't craft hards and sharps....you can craft blackstones, so I see no reason we shouldnt
     
    Atron likes this.
  2. Atron

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    There are tons of options for to deal with all this crap.

    Put bundles of mem frags on night vendor.
    Make it as a world drop from any monster mems/hards/sharps.
    Increase drop chance when gathering / farming / etc
    Make it so its craftable
    Put mems as a chance to gain them while fishing
    Increase drop rates of relics / scrolls
    Put memes into Voo doo scrolls.

    I mean the list is endless and would eliminate all market place frustration.
     
    Kn0xxPT likes this.
  3. Kn0xxPT

    Kn0xxPT Striker 62 EU

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    Kama with direct Mem drop, and Voodoo with Mem. will definatly clear up Valencia over-population. Simple as that.
     
  4. GamePois0n

    GamePois0n PootyPoot Ranger 61 NA

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    captcha system is bad because you can call the game function to complete it or bypass it completely.

    you cant simply just add googles captcha because then you will be lagging on bidding since the users need to load a webpage first.
     
    NannaOgg likes this.
  5. AlnilamE

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    Also keep in mind that everyone has at least one maid now, so it's easy to keep an eye on the MP and snipe things while cooking/fishing/horse riding.
     
    NannaOgg likes this.
  6. Tiresias

    Tiresias Witch 59 NA

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    Do you build software? Have you ever built a captcha? Do you know how the functionality works?

    No, you don't. If you did, you would not be making this statement.

    The solution to your problem is beyond trivial: you don't make the client the trusted resolver of the challenge-response. The client simply sends the decision data of the captcha input to the server, and the server authenticates it. In the exact same manner as, you know, a password login system; the challenge-response method is almost identical for both solutions. You don't even have to trap every single transaction; one out of every 3 or 5 would be fine, with multiple failures locking out the client from the marketplace for a certain period of time that scales up on subsequent failures.

    If the original iteration of the marketplace captcha depended on the client as the trusted resolver, then the developers should have expected that it wouldn't serve any purpose at all because you cannot fully control the client.

    Now, as to the matter of increasing drop rates... that's something that can have serious impacts on the economy. Since I'm not an expert on the BDO economy I won't try to speak to that specific issue. The point of this thread was to address the issues with the marketplace being overrun and controlled by bots.
     
  7. Graviera

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    The solution is trivial in theory.
    In practice the thinner the client the more the server load.
    In an MMO it is crucial that there is no lag. Market bots is a far less crucial issue from the Dev perspective than lag is.

    BDO Devs prioritize less server load with a less safe, more trusted and thicker client.
    Without the whole source code/net code and actual servers load we are really not in a position to know if they do well or not.

    It is very possible that the whole project on a code level is very bad and needs rewriting for the most part. But again, in practice it won't happen any time soon. They did make major improvements lag wise and performance wise compared to a year ago. So they do improve things. They are just slow to do so.

    You got every right to complain but in my opinion you are wasting your time. The Devs know very well all issues. They just manage resources and prioritize fixes according to their own agenda.
    The exception is community outcries (like hysteria speed hacking) where GMs are allowed to make ban waves based on players reports so that people get calm again. Maybe even throw a dirty fix in code for specific bots. After that it is business as usual.
     
  8. cofused

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    they cant do it. like in many other games cheaters win and most likely bdo will shut down due to hackers like many other games
     
  9. Jensen

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    the problem aint the mp, its the focking scarcity
    event based economy
    enhance materials coming only from gathering
    etc etc
     
  10. Prochilles

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    It's not a captcha that we need, it is higher prices. Shards, frags, pretty much everything is stuck at a price that is way less than the value of the item. That is why people are willi ngto buy a 15mil item to melt for a single shards. I have loads of shards/hards, but I don't sell them cause it isn't worth it, so I chose to hang on to them forever just in case I want to try my hand at enhancing one day, which is still super unlikely to ever happen.

    You don't see any boots buying out all the items that can be melted in shards, as the price at some point exceeds the worth. Uncapping prices would create an entirely new game for us.
     
  11. Tiresias

    Tiresias Witch 59 NA

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    That's... a horrible idea unless you fix the scarcity problem. The prices are locked because of how scarce everything is.

    How the marketplace should work:

    -Rare items are found infrequently in the game world.
    -If the person who found the rare item doesn't need it or wants money to buy something else, they sell it to the marketplace with the knowledge of how much they are going to get in return (fixed price).
    -Another player who is VERY serious about acquiring a specific item can place a preorder for ONE item at whatever price they are willing to pay -- even billions of silver over the fixed price -- but the seller only realizes a fraction of that value; the rest of the silver is lost to the void in a valuable and necessary economic drain.
    -Anyone else can gamble on sniping the item from the marketplace, waging against whomever is also interested in the item and online.

    How the marketplace ACTUALLY works:
    -Rare items are found infrequently in the game world.
    -Sellers try to demand Pearls or Pearl Shop gifts to post items, knowing full well that it's impossible to guarantee a certain person will be able to win the item from the marketplace.
    -The one preorder works as intended, but a great many players also use marketplace bots that automatically bid on items even when the player isn't at their computer. This results in a dramatic inflation of people a bid has to be waged against.
    -Marketplace bots can also be set to direct-buy scarce items like black stones, and can manipulate the marketplace system to ensure that it's impossible to bid on any item not posted at minimum price and then use their machine-level response time to shut non-botters out of the direct-buy process.

    The whole bot economy can be destroyed with simple Turing tests like captchas. As a more effective but labor-intensive method, the bots user can be banned. Regardless of the solution, something needs to be done.
     
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  12. RageAgainst

    RageAgainst Mystic 61 NA

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    We don't need higher prices. We need people to stop hoarding like you do. The prices are controlled for good reason.
     
  13. Lemon Crush

    Lemon Crush CreamLemon Witch 62 NA

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    You do realize thats not why items are being bought up at all hours right?

    It's because this game is heavily populated and people are playing all hours of the night and day..... they get a notification on an item wait 14m stop what they are doing log to an alt or use a transaction maid to buy said item.

    I get you are frustrated and need to blame something but fact is you aren't the only person bidding on something.... EVER. EVEN if its a bot, you still lost the dice roll. You have this odd assumption that at 3am you are the only one bidding on something period. Do you really think this game is that dead?? Especially for the items you listed LOL they are the most in demand items in the game.

    PS. We had captcha before, it made it even easier for bots because they could input faster than you ever could by hand.
     
    #33 Lemon Crush, Jul 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  14. Prochilles

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    My freakin work went into getting the items, I'll do as I please with them. Why ask me to sacrifice my efforts for you or anyone else?
     
    NannaOgg likes this.
  15. RageAgainst

    RageAgainst Mystic 61 NA

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    You may do as you please, but your hoarding is part of the reason they are scarce. Which is causing the inflation you are using as your excuse to raise the prices. So how exactly are you sacrificing anything?

    Not selling them or using them basically makes them worthless, thus making the work you put into getting them time wasted.
     
  16. Lemon Crush

    Lemon Crush CreamLemon Witch 62 NA

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    Wrong wrong wrong.

    What is causing inflation is seamonsters insane silver injection into players pockets. People are being paid out a billion + a week just to sea monster hunt.

    That is why the game is in a state of hyper inflation currently. There aren't enough silver sinks removing silver from the game vs the intake from that particular venue.
     
  17. RageAgainst

    RageAgainst Mystic 61 NA

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    It's not helping that payouts are ridiculously high now, but it's not the cause. They need to increase the drop rate substantially to combat the rate of silver income. Raising the prices of items fixes nothing.

    Sea monster hunting just might actually ruin this game.
     
  18. Prochilles

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    The value of the silver sinks are due to prices that are fixed, which allows people to buy high-demand items for way lower than their worth. So, for instance right now since silver is so much easier to get than a year ago everyone can afford cheap shards/frags/etc as their prices are based off of a much lower income, which is why people are willing to buying 15mil accessories for a single shard.

    If sharps were able to go to their economic value there would be more on the market as selling the item would match the cost for them to be obtained and sold.

    The silver sinks would be natural for example: Person A bought a 15mil sharp off the market and used it to enhance a piece of gear, Fail>Success, so instead of 3.6mil per enhance attempt it would become 15mil.
     
  19. RageAgainst

    RageAgainst Mystic 61 NA

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    People are willing to pay 15m for an accessory to melt because we have an abundance of silver currently thanks to the last event and sea monster hunting. We have a lack of items on the market for several reasons, one of them is people hoarding. Another is lack of reward for actively playing the game. The prices are fine exactly where they are so that all players new and old are able to buy them if necessary and progress.

    Just think how much you'd be profiting on hard/sharp sales right now due to high preorders on them.
     
  20. Prochilles

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    I would be sacrificing an item of worth for an amount that is largely unequal to that worth. I could save and eventually they may add something in the game I want to enhance, like the Manos Clothes, for example and then my patience would be well worth the wait. I don't make excuses I simply take the best course of action, if I saw a better investment for the low amount of silver it could bring by selling them and I had no other financial resources I would've ditched them long ago. If I was a poor bastard, which I am irl, I wouldn't demand the 1% to sacrifice their hard earned achievements or their parents hard earned achievements so I could have a better life.

    Not selling an item makes it a long-term investment with higher risk, and it's my decision as the rightful owner to decide if I want to take that risk. And my time was never wasted as they were simply a byproduct of the main focus of my work.

    My, and others, hoarding of such items is only a symptom of a problem within the game, it is not the problem itself, and this symptom is seen as larger to others than it does to some. I don't think about hard or sharps, if I get them I throw them in storage and forget. But, if all the hoarders did throw there sharps/hards/frags/etc they too would be gone in an instant. Observe the events that give them in mass for free, where are they?
     

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