1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Succession wizard needs a serious nerf

Discussion in 'Witch/Wizard' started by Basic, Jul 31, 2020.

?

What is your opinion on succession wizard?

  1. Perfectly Balanced

    21 vote(s)
    12.0%
  2. Too weak and needs a buff

    15 vote(s)
    8.6%
  3. Too strong and needs a nerf

    139 vote(s)
    79.4%
  1. GuiltGuy

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    473
    Likes Received:
    129
    I forgot the skill it is either FG or SA. Go on hiding.
     
  2. sajdas

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2020
    Messages:
    683
    Likes Received:
    650
    Its actually only FG when charging it, the protection drops when you start to dmg
     
  3. Kurtferro79

    Kurtferro79 Maehwa 63 EU

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    392
    Forgot iframe on tp :)
     
  4. JammyPastry

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    9
    Being able to instant cast off of teleport and also being able to split tele is the biggest issue with Wiz imo. Seems like they got Succ Witch in a better spot now (but still not as ridiculous as Wiz), just make succ Wizard the same. Also remove PA or add a debuff that doesn't allow players to receive the effects of PA for x amount of time to avoid chaining. Mage succ's balanced ezpz, that'll be 10k pearls please.
     
    Kurtferro79 likes this.
  5. makis

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    87
    Nah, thats the only part that keeps wizard relevant, if you nerf that that they should also look at lahn ranged grab nerf, or ninja mobility nerf for example. Mages arent even that special combat wise, guardians get mroe kills than them by far, people are just irked by the presence of PA which noone likes
     
  6. Kurtferro79

    Kurtferro79 Maehwa 63 EU

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    392
    Well also the extent of his AOE is a bit exaggerated and ranges, and also poorly represented by its graphic effect, an improvement especially for mass pvp where it is necessary to deactivate all the effects, and therefore the wizzard acquires an additional advantage, would be add the circles of the aoe skills to the ground, as happens for the bosses or in GW2, and that the CCs did not start immediately but often even before the graphic effect, you must give at least a chance to be able to block it, because they are almost all KD that it means you don't get up anymore and the V doesn't work either, it is the combination of all these things that makes it strong and makes mass PVP a bundle of spammed skills and you lose the beauty of the combat system, practically only enjoyable in the duel. These are not to be considered the advantages that a class must have to be at a good level, these are equal to improprieties, the balance must then be found with correct skills. Obviously, skills of other classes should be scaled accordingly, and perhaps PVP would once again be more enjoyable even on a large scale.
     
    #86 Kurtferro79, Aug 28, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
  7. JammyPastry

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    9
    I have to respectfully disagree with you here. This is all my opinion, but I think the protected CC's that also have really big damage and massive AoE's along with ranged abilities and healing utility will always keep Wizard relevant/in a good spot regardless of split tele/instant casting off of tele. Those two passives are specifically what gives them the advantages in 1v1's/smaller scale over Witch succession, which I feel like is a bit more balanced after the recent buffs. I think everyone agrees that something needs to be done about PA though.

    I couldn't say whether Guardian's are getting more kills in large scale or not, but I do know it's still a hell of a lot easier to pull off high KDR than a succession mage, but that's a separate issue anyway.

    As far as Awakened Lahn goes, she's pretty unprotected on a lot of her mid combo skills and has pretty mediocre damage/accuracy scaling with awakening compared to other classes. Sure she is still REALLY strong for 1v1s but falls off pretty hard in all other forms of PvP, so it's hard for me to say what nerfs/buffs would be appropriate for Awa Lahn without just making her ridiculous or complete trash.

    I have no idea why they buffed Ninja mobility again :|
     
    #87 JammyPastry, Aug 28, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
    Kurtferro79 likes this.
  8. easay9

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    487
    This games pvp is a joke period the fps = DPS and faster animationd alone ruin it.

    I have been off and on grinding on occation and i can tell just from 2 matches in rbf where each class sits in tier.

    Classes that Need buffs:
    Ranger ( awakening) increase range of succession to be on par with archer......
    Zerker( awakening, in general make this guy tanky please!)
    Shai. stronger buffs
    Mehwa
    mystic
    Striker (awakening)

    Classes that are fine and need to stay where they are at:
    Warrior
    Musa
    Witch
    Guardian
    Tamer
    Lahn
    Archer
    Ninja
    Kuno
    Darknight

    Classes that are needing nerfs
    Sorc( iframe spam is just a bad way to balance any class)
    Wizard( litterally what this thread is about....)
     
  9. Xenon

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    2,148
    Likes Received:
    2,133
    @Basic Ayyy, we're really back with another one of these threads, huh? Lmao. At this rate, you're going to have a serious nerf thread for every class subforum. I'll coincide you're right this time. Succ Wizard is hilariously and stupidly broken. I swear PA just doesn't give a flying f*ck anymore. With succession, it's like they just let go of their last f*ck to give and went all in on making things as broken as possible. Like everything they've done was really cool in terms of concept and ****, as well as fun to play, but it just made the overall balance so much worse.

    Then again, they were quick to nerf some successions while they've rolled back anything they had planned for wizard. I guess most of their whales are wizards? Hell if I know. They brought back the Warrior painal train for more gaping, too. I just don't get it. Can we go back to the awakening meta again from 3 years ago? It was way more balanced than this shitfest, even when everybody lived in super armor and frontal guard 24/7.

    Yes, because abusing ansel for invincibility is such high skill ceiling. Or using 520 dp builds so you can take screenshots and talk sh*t to people who can't kill you with full accuracy setups makes you so skilled. God, you're such a joke. Just stop talking already and excuse yourself from the forum permanently. Pretty please.

    Fixed that for you. Blockjump might as well as be our only iframe at this point. Even mobs can disrupt ghost step and ninja step easily enough. With the succ nerfs and the damage rebalancing, our damage is pretty much gone now. Awakening can still pull out the big damage every now and then, but the meta is different and awakening isn't that good anymore (never was, but serpent really helped carry the kit). Geared Warrior just shuts us down because they're protected, fast, and have just as much damage, succ Wizard is succ Wiz, and all the new toys succ classes have make the meta much different than when awakening Ninja was a domineering class. I left stealth in with an additional note:

    *You can literally break it with any damage skill now. Meaning those rangers and wizards spamming ranged skills on the field? Yeah, they pull you out of invis if they so much as touch you with any of them, cc or not.

    Warrior is actually busted, though. They have been since they got awakening. All the buffs they keep getting are just making it worse and worse. The only way to beat a skilled Warrior right now is to either have enough damage to oneshot him through his block (which isn't happening unless he has no gear) or if he makes a mistake and lets you land a grab on him. He does have gaps in protection, but most skilled warriors I meet play conservatively enough that the window is extremely small and very hard to find. That, or they're so aggressive you have no room to breathe.

    Actually, man, them changing mach explosion to stiffness is actually a benefit. It has 0 use as a bound skill. Like you said, it has bad damage and is bad to commit to. Right now, you can use it to cancel stance dancing into a stiffness, then cancel into another skill like serpent. It's also not bad in pve. It does pretty good damage in pve, just the cd is really bad. The only questionable change they've made is to change Serpent to be the transition variant only now. Everything else is arguably good. The kit still needs plenty of love and lots of changes that I could go on and on about, but I won't since this isn't the thread for it. Everything else, I agree with.

    All I have to do is keep suiciding myself at the other team until I land the last hit on a high score enemy to get a very good score in rbf. Despite what I say about how bad stealth is now, I can still occasionally line up a very nasty kill on the other side and get a dickload of points. RBF isn't an indication of balance besides seeing how many of one class is stacked on either side. If it's all X class, then that might mean it's the current fotm.

    Really? You don't know why? Maybe it has to do with the fact that you don't know that they nerfed succ Ninja mobility into the ground to begin with? And that they walked it back because it was too much? Hmm, yeah, I wonder why.

    Made some changes. C:
     
    sajdas likes this.
  10. makis

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    87
    So make ninja a god king class once more, gotcha.
     
  11. JammyPastry

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    9
    I did know that they nerfed it and also that Ninja's seemed to still be doing just fine, which is why I don't know why they rebuffed it especially when accompanied by all of the other buffs they have recently received. I'm not a Ninja player so my opinion is only based off of how I see other's performing ofc, but I don't accept an answer like "well they obviously needed it back since PA buffed it again," because all of these same types of threads over the years have established that PA doesn't know how to balance their game. This isn't the Ninja forum, but I'd still be interested to hear the reasoning behind it from someone who actually plays a Ninja (I did read the entirety of your original post, but didn't see much about the mobility specifically).
     
    #91 JammyPastry, Aug 29, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
  12. easay9

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    487
    HUH your changes suck...... YOU DONt mention 3 classes also ya this is 100% opinionated towards a ninja player wtf!
     
  13. Rekch

    Rekch Krid DarkKnight 62 EU

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    178
    The mobility really got gutted down to ****. He went from being able to move long distances fast for engages to not being able to jump 3 meters. So he had to play relatively a lot more defensive, and with classes hitting you from afar, it wasnt a pleasant experience. Now if you add to that damage nerf and succ wiz meta...
     
  14. JammyPastry

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    9
    Fair enough. I knew it was nerfed but not the extent of it. Doesn't make sense for an assassin class to play passively.
     
  15. Xenon

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2015
    Messages:
    2,148
    Likes Received:
    2,133
    Nah. Right now, succ can kill people, but with all the nerfs, some people can survive a combo without being a meme. Adding in the extra accuracy on skills or restoring air attack damage on moonlight will ensure the kill in a combo unless they're some kind of evasion meme. Awakening still has a lot of issues that need hammered out before it can be considered a good kit.

    Ok, so, alert stance is one of three mobility tools added in succession. It's activated by pressing rmb after using evasive malice or smokescreen. It's an unprotected teleport into a stance animation with frontal guard. The other two tools are Fatal Blow and Evasive Malice.

    You know what ghost step is, right? Prior to the nerf, Evasive Malice + Alert stance is about 2x the distance of ghost step. After the nerf, it's 90% the distance of ghost step. Evasive malice is 85% the distance of ghost step, while Alert stance was roughly a bit more distance than ghost step. Alert stance got nerfed so badly that it basically moves you a step forward now off malice, and is 1/4th of the distance of a ghost step off smokescreen. It's awful. You can't get to the back of a Kuno, Musa, or Maehwa now, unless they really mess up and let you.

    With the exception of succ witch, no ranged damage class needs buffs. At endgame gear, if you gave them anymore power, they'd be stupid broken. That's why they need their damage reduced at maximum range. You shouldn't be able to delete someone from half way across the map where they can't touch you. On the flip side, I think ranged classes should do more damage when people are close. Like 10% or 20% more than base? That has some potential to be stupid, too.

    Other than that, not really? I said that classes I didn't mention are fine. Shai wasn't mentioned because she's fine. She does what she's supposed to, and is even really good at being a support class. I guess you could say awakened DK still needs buffs, but her succ is really good. Do you want me to say your changes are opinionated towards your class only because it's the first thing you mentioned?

    Awakened Ninja still needs buffs to be good again. Succ for all classes just makes that much difference in pve/pvp, including ninja's succ post nerf. Succ just needs a tiny bit more love on damage after the movement buff to be completely fine. Anything else would just go towards improving the life of the class.

    Everything else I listed under needing buffs are classes that need buffs. Berserker is so meh now that every zerker I know is rerolling or has rerolled off the class. Succ Witch looked like it had really bad damage and was completely overshadowed by Succ Wizard, but I'm not so sure since ingame testing seems to contradict the global labs videos I saw months ago. It's definitely overshadowed, but that's only because Succ Wiz is so stupid op in its current state that it makes every class blush in embarrassment. Maehwa is a dead class that needs a lot of love. Musa is just better in every way rn. Tamer is Tamer. Need I say more?

    Funny enough, ninja awakening's most ideal playstyle is probably a defensive/passive playstyle. That's just how bad the kit is overall. You don't have any tools to trade with anybody. Your goal is to exploit gaps in their protection and weave in and out of frontal guard with a few iframes. It has one grab bait super armor.
     
  16. easay9

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    487
    If your talking about archer then sure I agree with you for range distance weakening damage.

    ranger I do not since her range is much shorter and in succession she is completely unprotected.

    I also agree awakened ranger should have the damage from swords either buffed up or give her back her entire before rework kit with daze on rushing wind and all the blocks she had and super armor back on vineknot. even with these changes shes still an average class..... this is facts. The only thing I would like to see outside of that would be call to the sky the flip skill given a iframe but on a cooldown and not spam-able.

    Zerker I agree with
    mehwa I agree with
    Tamer I dont agree with theres many good tamers out there. ( just not a common class)

    Ninja nope hes fine now he was OP for far to long he finally needs to actually combo more then 2 skills again to kill people.

    witch and wiz awake are fine succ witch shouldnt get adjusted because we could just have another succ wiz appear which we do not need.

    Gaurdian add split damage I can maybe see

    Sorc needs a rework again I dont agree with spamable Iframes unless they damage they do is nerfed hard they should have to rotate different skills to stay protected like everyone else. ( obviously this is an opinion it will probably never happen .)
     
  17. Leontothymos

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    34
    You must be kidding about Lahn. The class does nothing in end game. Sure we can stomp if its tet vs tet, but going end game Lahn's damage and **** accuracy modifiers scales off bad, awakening worse than succ. Try fighting around the battlefield with covid, and the saving grace is S block or lingering SA to a nonexistent DP coz every class does way more damage to the class after that PvP balancing.
     
  18. easay9

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    487
    IDK if I agree with that I see many good lahns they go in kill targets and get out lahns probably the most high risk high reward as an assassin as it should be the only thing stopping lahn right now is the huge AOE from these witchards its mostly succ wiz though...........
     
  19. Leontothymos

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    34
    Do you know the dp of that target? What's your dp? Coz I've talked to so many Lahns with ap 281-301 and it's basically in unison, anyone over 350+ dp (eva>dr) does not take damage from Lahns. Swapping to acc oh or dawns for lower ap also doesn't do justice. Maybe if we see a Lahn with 300+ap with dawnsx2 to actually voice an opinion, but you dont see a lot of players with that, neither do they stick to Lahn coz any other class does way more damage than a Lahn.
     
  20. easay9

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    487
    Still disagree lahn hits very hard if your going for tanks with a lahn your doing it wrong most high damage targets won't be at that DP to begin with shes an assassin she should be going for the squishies in the backline and she does this with ease. multiple classes get countered by evasion builds this is not only Lahn
     
    Stealthe likes this.

Share This Page