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tamer is even weaker and more pathetic than we thought

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by irrelevant, Nov 10, 2017.

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  1. damascus

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    Holy crap man, WTB some punctuation please!! :)

    That said, OP has some valid points regarding Tamer class. It's a shame people are forced to play a more relevant/working class instead of the one they want. From my end, I found after awakening that Heilang dies too easily when grinding mobs, even though I've maxed out that skill/summon. Anyone else have this or am I just doing something wrong?
     
  2. Tronkun

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    Zerkwr have lowest evasion and lowest total dr of all classes said by datamined stats, and dmg is pretty low and boring , zerker can only oneshoot if the enemy has much less gs
     
  3. That may be cause of the humidity, are you fighting near small puddles? [​IMG]

    BTW totes agree about punctuation heh typing emotionally does that to me too sometimes ugh just did it [​IMG]
     
  4. damascus

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    Is that a real thing? Does Heilang not like water or something? Funny you ask though, it's really hot and muggy where I live atm!
     
  5. No really, seriously, if heilang beastie touches even little puddles it may disappear so um there was a little trick that worked consisting in swooshing swiftly forward with one of tamer's sprinting skills to avoid puddles even if it touches water it won't disappear but um I am not doing that anymore #lazy I'll just call beastie again since now the recharge is waaay shorter #happypetlife
     
  6. damascus

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    Oh wow, I never even realised that. Some mythical beast, roars like a lion against all manner of foes but melts like a witch when he touches water. Go figure??
    XO
     
    Alicemimi likes this.
  7. Poko

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    Yeah and his opinion would be valued if he didnt personally attack everyone and behave like a complete maniac.
     
    RoninLee, Xenon and (deleted member) like this.
  8. UltraHeaven

    UltraHeaven Tamer 61

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    Here we go... again... 25 more pages before being moderated and closed.

    Meanwhile, here are first 4 pages statistics :
    • MY class is worst : 7
    • Tamer, it's OP : 16
    • Lemon, u suck/u mad/gitgud : 12
    • Lemon's quotes : 18
    • Serious response : 1
    • Lemon's support : 2
    • Meme created : 1
    • and a number of off-topic answers.
     
  9. Nyhver

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    Irrelevant doesn't seem bad at all, but as you mention on he has a huge issue with sweeping hyperbole and acting as if it's the only class with the listed problems in any relevancy which is untrue. He also likes the argument of authority which is almost always a bad or mediocre argument. It's difficult to tell whether his posts are contrived, satire or he's genuinely a player that has some skill- very impressive or not- that is highly selective, inconsistent and delusional with a superiority complex. Such a thing is possible.

    Unequivocally true.


    Wrong. Thinking you're something doesn't make it so. You are or you aren't regardless of what you think. Political trends and being polite or politically correct doesn't change reality. Your biological sex is what you are until we can actually change it- if we get to that point or can actually do it with science not some half attempted hormone treatment and cosmetic surgery. Biologically identifying as the opposite sex or something you aren't is equivalent to identifying as a muppet. Neither are true. Facts don't care about your feelings.
     
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  10. Shadowfibby

    Shadowfibby Tamer 61 NA

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    I'm a softcap tamer with 13k rbf points, was 1v1ing a manup wizard and after our duels he was like 'why are you so badly geared', like LOL? this is just the average similar geared person's view of tamers, we can do OKAY against people of lower gear but NONE of you people who say tamers are HAHA deleting everyone in rbf realise that any other similar geared and practiced player of ANY other class could do what tamer is doing, kiting zergs and diving into them but TWENTY times better because their damage and aoe isn't trash like tamer's and this is coming from someone with 230ap with kutum. ALL of you people saying tamer is strong are undergeared plebs, I have watched the other top tamers all on my server do trash against guilds that are actually near their gear with the exception of one or two tamers, and even they do horribly compared to others in their guild.

    Please tell me how tamer is op strong when we need to full combo, dash, sa, forward guard, grab (full vulnerability no sa, guard), bolt jolt combo (also full vulnerable) to kill a similar geared hybrid witchard? When any random witchard in their zerg can just ACCIDENTALLY kill us in 2-3 spells because their aoe and damage is so ridiculous. The only thing you can do is small scale but every other class can do it but 10x better.

    So please, stfu if you don't do pvp go back to claiming karma bombing doesn't exist or something else we don't care about.
     
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  11. Maxi.BS

    Maxi.BS Tamer 61 EU

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    Now this is legit ****

    I accidentaly kill so many people in node war with Cataclysm and Aqua Jail while playing the wizard alt without even noticing them, when complety protected by super armor. With tamer, best you can do is engage a small group of enemies and can back attack half of them before having to disengage to protect your ass.
    I know how toxic and salty Lemon is, but in my opinion, if a class requires more combo management and faster reaction than a class with only a few buttons to hit, then the previous class should perform better in every situation. This is not just about tamer, but pretty much every lower tier classes compared to wiz, witch and striker aswell
     
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  12. Ashenvall

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    Here we go again... Complaint, salt and whatever you think with a large amount of pride and despise people because certain persons think to know better.
    Like usual, every player on this forum is narrow minded by "my class is weaker nya nya nya" or "I can't kill 10 players at the same time, it's not fair"

    EACH ****** CLASSES HAVE ISSUES.
    TAMER IS NOT THE CENTER OF THIS WORLD
    EACH CLASSES HAVE DESYNCH.

    Tamer is not a priority, but fix each classes is a top priority. Make them equal or give to them a specific role with clear information.
     
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  13. irrelevant

    irrelevant Fiery Tamer 61 EU

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    all my threads start with me talking about a real issue and i don't "attack everyone and behave like a complete maniac"you have some bias but if you take a step back and read things more objectively you'll see that you're wrong

    and that's where you're wrong,

    you can't get good while being delusional unless you're severely carried by circumstances (rng, class, whatever) which isn't the case for me, you need to be reasonable and objective otherwise the first person you fight that has some gear will smack you in the head with a reality check

    You assume that i'm talking about average and below average people, which by definition is 50% of the population which is actually a huge number and when you meet a person there's a 50% chance that he's one of those because the number 50% is huge. I'm not talking about the average person because average tamers are even worse than average other classes and in any group pvp (or even 1v1) you don't see an average tamer do well. The only tamers with higher score consistently in rbf are tamers that have been playing for awhile and if a bad tamer has higher score then he just got a lucky last hit and it won't happen again (and yeah i've actually witnessed these things more than once). In node wars you have people that play tamer for more than a year still have negative kda which is completely ridiculous.

    The point is, i'm not talking about average skill level cause tamer is actually really hard and requires general game knowledge and some mechanical skill and a lot of class knowledge to be able to do anything other than backstab someone and press 1,2,3 (which is easy, even as tamer). I'm talking about the highest skill level that i've seen and that i can imagine (since i know how other classes work and i've even taught many people how to play their own class despite me not having played it, simply because they give me information on how their class works and i mash it with my general game knowledge and with my imagination and tell them X or Y and then suddenly it works. In the old forum i said that warrior/valk have SA on grab as much as half a year before the lingering SA thing became popular and ofcourse everyone called me crazy maniac back then but it turns out i was right. I also said there are lingering iframes and SA on diffr class abilities and after a few months people actually learned how to do it). To do anything more than backstab 1,2,3 as tamer it requires above average skill or you'll simply fail. So when i complain about the class i envision how things are played on at max skill level and i combined that with my game experience and the results are my complaints

    You think that other classes have SA inconsistencies but that;s simply not true people don't understand how delay desync works in the game so they blame their class design but in that case its not class design. I didn't invent delay desync but it's true and anyone doing pvp regularly should've figured out how it works ages ago. Basically, since the game is client based for half of the things but it's also server based for the other half of the things, there's a moment in which the information is traveling from your client to the server and if you use an iframe and get hit 0,2 seconds after you used it there's a good chance that your iframe will go on CD (since that's client based) but you'll still get CCed (since the server didnt receive your information yet so your enemy never even saw you cast iframe, for your enemy you were standing still on one place and in some cases the game bugs out completely and your enemy sees you teleport but still get hit anyway). That's how all the teleports happen too, because client 1 says that you dashed to spot X and client 2 says that he CCed you on spot Y and then the server gets conflicting information and then it's like a coin toss on who wins the desync war. Sometimes you desync into grabs, sometimes you desync out of them. Delay desync is like the default desync and it's horrible but when you get good you can somewhat account and factor for it and expect and predict it, which is why if you are aware of it and if you know how it works and if you use abilities properly you can mostly negate it. I know it sounds like a train wreck but this is how the game is and when you're competitive and you want to win, even if you make excuses you still have to accept reality for what it is and work around it. I don't like delay desync but knowing how it works makes me able to work around it as much as i can.

    and thats the part where my tamer complaints come, because other classes have MULTIPLE OPTIONS with how to approach things while tamer is limited to use moonlight and legendary beast power both of which horribly designed and broken. Tamer skills simply do not propel you forward except those 2 so they are the only skills you can use to reposition and to actually hit anyone because otherwise you wont catch them. Rangers don't have this problem because their skills have medium range, and it's the same with sorcs. Sorc's skill that has melee range (violation) actually propels them forward while tamer skills dont so you're forced to use Lbp and moonlight as movement because lbp is the only way you can move in combat but the skill is only 75% SA and the last frames of that skill are not SA (bug or design, it's horrible either way) and now that we know this and we mash it up with delay desync you realize that there's no outplaying this because the only way you outplay delay desync is by using reliable skills because the delay is always random, so when you take a skill as bad as LBP you can't ever time it right because the timing is always different and it's always rng. Obviously i try to go around this by using one of the very few advantages that tamer has (which is animation canceling) so i cancel LBP early to avoid this risk but even then it often still doesn't work because the skill simply isn't reliable enough and with delay desync you don't really see things as they are. Another thing is that LBP stops on collision with anything and instead of running 10 meters with SA dash you stop after 2 meters (if there's a person there) so you lose the SA early just for people walking by left and right and sometimes if a maehwa is dashing in front of you the server stops you in the air because it thinks you collided with the maehwa, even tho the maehwa is long gone by now, and when you stop your CD's are all off because as tamer managing your SA cds is everything. The design of this skill simply doesn't work with our ping and with our server and with our game. I don't know if korea is different or not and it's not possible to tell by watching a video and i don't trust any other players except myself, and 1 more who has my respect who isn't playing any more so i can't tell anyone's word for granted.
    The other part is that moonlight is sa while charging and block while hitting and you often just get cced during it because the skill's design is completely inferior and because it moves you forward really quick (which is good) and the sa part disappears but hitboxes of other classes in this game are completely and absolutely insane , (almost all classes have even hitboxes BEHIND them) so they often end up just hitting you in back as the skill moves you very close to them as you're melee so using moonlight EVEN IF YOU'RE BACKSTABBING SOMEONE can get you CCéd and theres absolutely no way to play around this because tamer has absolutely no other skills to use unlike ANY other class in the game, and that's the part where ninja/kuno players don't appreciate their range and their propels but if they played tamer they would). Moonlight moves you (sometimes) too close to enemies, and you can get cced completely randomly with it and you're usually not protected while moving (before the moonlight) because tamer's only way to move is with SHIFT +W and LBP (but that has NO SA at the end as we've established) so there's almost always a vulnerability window before the moonlight itself and that's why when you become higher level as tamer if you're approaching someone that expects you, you mostly have to use block > LBP > ani cancel the lbp with another block and you can only move really slowly before getting into somewhat close position so you can use more skills else you'll just get cced . Being a better tamer means being better at dealing with desync which is actually really stupid if you think about it but that's how things are and the problem here is that your ability to deal with desync isn't completely up to you due to skill design and there's nothing you can do about it, even if god player tamer he would still get randomly CCed in group fights because the timings are always off. Even if they designed an AI that played the game perfectly it still would be much weaker as tamer than as any other class (even if the AI would still be better than any human, it would lose in a group pvp against bunch of AIs that play non-tamers and that know how to abuse the class - just spam skills at it until the server robs the tamer)

    almost all classes have SA engage while also having multiple engages (and range) on their skills while tamer has only moonlight, which is just broken

    and then there's the other thing which is a bug where a/d sidesteps simply don't activate randomly even when they are not on cooldown and it's been here since release. I made a bug report ticket about it with a clip included that someone was generous enough to clip for me but i don't think they'll do something about it, one can dream. These three issues combined that are beyond player control and the lack of alternative will ruin you

    other classes have reliable skills and alternatives, if you're playing another class and you're getting cced it's either delay desync either the thing you're using is horribly designed but at least you have alternatives.

    Even if we exclude the horrible skill design, tamer's damage values are simply lower without buffs than other classes with the same gear are. I don't care about any hidden stats or about pets or anything, with the attack speed a tamer has and the damage it has their damage is slower/lower than other classes and while tamer might have some high damage combos (that only work in 1v1 cause they're not protected) they rely heavily on so many things - landing perfect cc while having cds to follow up, having your float work, having your air attacks work (cause they don't always work cus of delay desync probably), having your hits land with low accuracy, having your pet not hit the air and even then you still RELY ON THE ENEMY FAILING AND GETTING CCED IN THE FIRST PLACE. While a wizard/ranger/ninja/striker/valk/zerker can simply onecombo you with a grab engage, they can do SA > Grab because tamer is melee so you'll ALWAYS be in a grab range. There's no part where you failed except not predicting the grab and iframing it (but then again, there's desync so even if you predict it there are times where you get rubberbanded and die, it's not always cus you usually walk out of grab if you do it successfully but it does happen) .A class such as ranger or kuno can backpedal and use an ability and be 2 meters away from enemy's hands because their abilities simply have more range while a tamer doesn't have this. Your average player might not be good enough at abusing and using these things but i'm talking about what classes can do on higher level. Maehwa is absolutely a class that does this, they backpedal and hit from a slight distance cause their spear has longer range than tamer abilities. Tamer's damage suffers without buffs and at the same time tamer is the squishiest class in the entire game (and has always been), the only class with no defensive buffs (except heilang berserk which is bad and kills your pet and has no sa on cast and has 'long' cast) while sorc/striker have the best defensive buff in the entire game for free with 100% uptime. And then there's the part where tamer has no kd, downsmash etc, sa on grab, these are all visible/ should be more known

    so if you're a max skill any class if you know all your lingering skills and all the animation cancels and how to press buttons and have high game knowledge (cause i can absolutely guarantee you that i know how to be in SA for a longer time than most rangers on the forum do as a ranger when i've never actually played the class, i simply have general knowledge + have seen the better people do it so i know how to do it) all classes in this game have multiple options on how to deal with things ,unlike tamer, and at the same time all classes also have better stats?

    and even then everything tamer can do can be countered/predicted as tamer isn't the fastest class (can be caught or kited) and is fairly limited

    unlike a sorc or maehwa or even musa, you simply cannot counter the iframe spam and the dash unless they fail or unless they get greedy (which is part of fail) or they simply trade with you wrongly because they have less brute power but more finesse and the actual control of the fight which is what matters. I'm not even complaining about that right now and this is still a thing, an argument, a fact

    my requests for tamer "fixes" and "buffs" are to reduce the inconsistencies because this punishes the player and skill
    if you have an event that reduces the skill level to 20 for all participants and you have participant A with 40 skill and participant B with 80 skill, participant A only loses 20 skill while participant B loses 60 skill. Chaos and randomness punish the more skilled player and that bothers me because i don't wanna play 50/50 because i want to win because that's the point of games ,even if you play for fun. My main requests have always been to make the class more reliable and if ive mentioned stats or damage or CC's or anything that was just to show that the class is lacking in every single department so having less reliability is even worse than usual because it has absolutely nothing to make up for it

    the only advantage tamer has is that it can animation cancel and even that's not as good as it could be because of the coding/desync of this game and because of again (LBP, which is the main cancel skill by the way but you can do it with other things) and the other unique thing that tamer has is that the damage is split (between tamer and pet) but this isnt necessarily an advantage because the tamer (the girl)'s damage is actually quite low by itself and because the dog can hit the wrong target or the air and essentially its wasted so it's not an advantage to have your damage split, just a different concept (which is what classes should be anyway - different concepts )

    so yea, i've thought and been objective about these things and i'm constantly doubting myself and the things i say as my daily experiences update but this is how things are right now at least, and things change over time but sadly for tamer things mostly get worse and not better.. hopefully rabam will fix issues (like the other issue where tamer has no mobility on staff and it has no way to swap to shortsword with SA so its harder to do in grp pvp) but knowing how things are and how reality works out - tamer's rabam will probably be worse than other classes's rabam skills
     
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  14. Shadowfibby

    Shadowfibby Tamer 61 NA

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    Lower tier classes SHOULD be a priority what the hell are you on about, you think already overpowered and overbuffed classes like witchards and striker should be prioritised over classes that require tremendous amounts of effort for very low reward while meta classes can reap high reward with low effort?

    Should this class have it's problems fixed when I've never done this before despite playing probably a thousand+ rbf, then I hop on my wizard alt with 11 days play time and be able to do this?
     

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  15. The_Lord

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  16. Malgorr

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    tamer is the strongest class
     
  17. Xenon

    Xenon Kallitren Ninja 60 NA

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    Oh, look, another thread by irrelevant. Second highest base melee damage tied with wizard, but behind valk, warrior, striker, and mystic. But guess what? It has the highest ranged and magic damage types, tied with wizard, being 55~59. Still complains that his class is weak, because some new numbers come out supporting that it has the lowest dr tied with ranger, sorc, wizard, and witch. Guess who has the lowest base damage while having the second lowest DR? Ninja and Kuno. You don't have any room to complain anymore. Just git gud already. Tamers are monsters in small scale. If you use that to your advantage, you could top kills even in sieges. But nooo. Wahhh. My class is so weak because it takes so much damage, even though it has more reliable survivability and more options in group fights than Ninja.

    Also lol @ the whole needing full combos to kill people thing when in the kr clips, a Warrior gets instantly deleted via moonlight into fire staff midblock.
     
    #78 Xenon, Nov 11, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  18. irrelevant

    irrelevant Fiery Tamer 61 EU

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    lowest in every single statistic except damage and then lowest skill value but yeah keep humiliating yourself with this display

    didnt you quit because you couldnt even get positive kda in siege and over 4k rbf score despite trolling the forum for over a year?
    bye

    he used rabam skill

    thanks for showing you have absolutely no clue how tamer skills look once again

    i wish we get the same thing here but we all know that we wont get anything even remotely as ridiculous as that
     
    #79 irrelevant, Nov 11, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2017
  19. Roechacca

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    That's why you should never be a moderator anywhere. You can't moderate people just because they don't agree with you. What's the worst that person said to you, that you're emotional? You post the same complaints a lot? lol BFD. You don't have to give a response to everyone you don't like feedback from. It's not trolling if they always disagree with the same subject. Buck up skippy. I can tell you get upset every time someone disagrees with you in the short time I've been here. I've butted heads with people but not on every subject and don't hold a grudge as to never agree with someone just because we don't see eye to eye on another. If ya shut people down completely because ya don't always agree on video game stuff, you maybe losing out on knowing someone that agrees with everything else in life. Make your topics, defend your position on them and let all the rest ride.
     
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