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tamer is even weaker and more pathetic than we thought

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by irrelevant, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Rilok

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    This thread is a joke
     
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  2. CronoLuminare.tv

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    we ALL know Tamers real value. OP hasnt got a clue, its more "Git Gud" scenarios that are really needed here. OP doesnt understand that absolutes arent a thing in BDO. just because some skills have certain values attached to them doesnt make them accurate. they use google translate when they get updates from PA. I mean really..... "Flow Bite off: x7 hits from Savage beast" for striker. we have no skill called Savage beast.... OP has no basis other then butt hurt feelings and no real findings or testing of there own. End of line.
     
    #82 CronoLuminare.tv, Nov 11, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  3. Xenon

    Xenon Kallitren Ninja 60 NA

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    I quit for the same reasons you keep complaining about, but for some reason, you won't heck off and do it yourself. I ended up coming back because I was bored, though, sadly.. Stop making crap up, though, please. You keep making these stupid threads every other week to complain about something new, but it really just boils down to "muh tamer is weak even though it's the only class I'll play and I do well enough with it". You're a hotheaded, emotional boy (girl??? who knows) who can't keep his mouth shut and constantly attacks people because they don't agree with you, and then whine, and exaggerate about all your issues. You're selfish and act like you're the only one who struggles. And it's ultimately funny, because you play a mid-tier class and still find a way to complain about every, single, little, fricking thing.

    You know what? Thanks for showing you have absolutely no clue about balance, once again. Thanks for showing you have no sense of human decency, once again. Thanks for showing that you are incapable of no hyperbole, once again. Thanks for showing us, that you, will always be irrelevant, and not some productive member of this mmo community, once again. Thanks for starting a 1000 page thread that the devs will never see and the mods will only look at to figure out where and when they need to police for the inevitable flame war you'll start, once again. Thanks for being you, once again. Thanks for ignoring everyone's advice, once again, and starting this once more. I needed another thread to troll, obviously. You needed another thread to vent in about the issues only you and your supposed utterly weak class encounters, obviously. -_- Git gud, son, or move on. Pick one.

    Edit: Also, don't act like I should know what your class's rabam skills look like when they're not even implemented in our version. Wait, weren't you whining before that the new rabam skills were garbage for tamer? Look who should eat their own words.
     
    #83 Xenon, Nov 11, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  4. Columba

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  5. Tanaros

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    Ohhai, it's Lemon again. Shitpost by definition.
    Fails to mention Tamer has highest attack which is literally in the same table.

    You didn't read the table you're referring to now did ya?
     
  6. d00mR

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    it is true that tamer has the lowest% on skills but this come with a compensaton, because most of the skills you use in pvp have 100% crit chance
     
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  7. RoakOriginal

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    And since when does everyone know the exact formulas used in PvP? AFAIK there are no tests nor data showing actual skill modifiers in PvP... And every skill has a different one...
     
    #87 RoakOriginal, Nov 11, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2017
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  8. Rasta667

    Rasta667 Sorceress 61 EU

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    I think the OP never played a different class. This is just ridiculous, crying about one of the stronger classes in game.
    Not gonna read further..always the same BS about first world problems. Try some other classes and than come back with real arguments. Thx bb
     
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  9. Ashenvall

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    You didn't read correctly. I wanted to tell to fix each classes and then adapt them to get a valuable classe design. Finally classe balance based on SKILLS only.
     
  10. Faoiltiarna

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    LMAO, you know nothing about this guy it seems.

    How do you know it is a different one for every class? So far tamer has 3-5k% skills and ranger/wizard can has up to 10k% and the damage is actually visible and is comparable.
    We have to do multiple skills with multiple holes and other classes use 1-3 skills with 1-2 holes between them to do same or even more damage and the only reason u keep whining that its op is the fact that we are actually applying cc to the target so we can do multiple skills and do any reasonable damage meanwhile witchtards dont even have to care about cc because they have high enough damage to disregard special attacks... thats very rewarding for tamer skill based gameplay... not.

    Fun fact is that people of other classes who never played tamer tell Lemon to play other classes before he writes(he actually did lmao) and when asked about playing tamer themselves they are like 'no i dont like the gameplay'. Yeah suuure must be gameplay and skill animations that players are not choosing tamer and all flocking to wiz/witch/striker/warr.
     
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  11. RoakOriginal

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    "Damage reduced in PvP" in descriptions. Patchnotes mentioning PvP damage changes on skills without affecting their PvE dmg and vice-versa separatedly for classes and skills. Tables with class and dmg modifiers found in recent sheets.

    Rest of your post is just BS and crying so am ignoring that.
     
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  12. Faoiltiarna

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    Ignorant pleb, as usual. PvP damage reduced.. by how much? Inb4 "tamer has lowest pvp reduce on skills", lmao.
    Tables show BASE damage which means we need less AP to deal more damage but we are still hindered by bad % on our skills. So basically **** gear wiz will lose to **** gear tamer but on top gear level its tamer that is hurt, thats not too hard to understand even for such a blockhead like you.
     
  13. RoakOriginal

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    Ignorant pleb, as usual. PvP damage reduced.. by how much?
    Thats exactly what i am saying... We have no idea how much... And its different for every class and every skill... Yet you dumbasses keep crying bcs you have lower PvE modifiers than the strongest PvE class... No relation to PvP whatsoever, and no problem that both of you can pull twice as many mosters as other classes...

    As was said.. tamers aint any weaker than other classes... You are just the most whiny of the ignorants...
     
  14. Ashenvall

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    So agressive....
    You present no source, no argument just bla bla. So can you put now in this thread tangible information.
    Bloo didn't link any information about pvp reduced damage. So we don't know the exact % for each classes ( but we know AP/ DP increase or decrease depending on classe you face) and each spells.
    And we didn't know the % pvp reduced damage for this "dumb beast with shitty IA" if I use Tamer, lolicon and irrelevant vocabulary.
    To conclude this, Tamer has a kind of split damage : Tamer + beast. So it's normal to see reduced % damage on each spells.

    PS: Can you keep your scorn away ? Plz you are toxic now.
     
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  15. MalGuldur

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    I remember the 400 dp zerker getting one comboed by those little creatures.
     
  16. davidiven

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    tamer's still weak, she needs buff to be able to 1 shot people with 1 left click :o
     
  17. mad

    mad Witch 60 EU

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    such a wasted potential
     
  18. Narsi

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    meanwhile in KR are Tamers TOP class in every single Tournament winning every single 1v1 or 2v2 ....

    i write this first time on this forum but it suit so much for u :

    GIT GUT man !
    yes TEmer is not tank, yes tamer is not fastest nor the best in NODE warrs ...


    but very class has it purposse and TAMER is that class which is like BEST 1v1 class with HUGE benefits from HEILAG ....

    is unique class and in many aspects INSANE OP ... and i would say that HEILAG IS PRETTY godlike ....


    i really dont get u man ... if u want dominate NODE WARS why did u pick TAMER?

    and if u cry about 1v1 as TAMER just GIT GUT...
     
  19. Ashenvall

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    Irrelevant acts like a true sociopath. He can't be kind with others except him. Just another individualistic human being. Alicemimi is recognized like a very kind person on this forum and in game. Not like Irrelevant with "peasant", "moron", "quit this game", "pathetic", "you are useless".
    How can you take seriously his allegations ?

    PS :Irrelevant, If you have some agressive pulsion, make some combat sport and don't bother people with your toxic and narrow minded opinion. But you can change, I hope so.
     
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  20. Nyhver

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    I appreciate the more elaborate post.

    Yes, you can. Fact. Delusional people have less chance arguably at it because they have the delusion and lack of understanding hindering them but that doesn't negate the very basic fact that you can be good and wrong about something, or have some good values and some bad ones including delusion, or in the context we mentioned it, be adequately to any metric skilled but delusional. You can be, it happens, fact.

    Why are you assuming I'm talking about average and below average people? You wrongly assumed I assumed something. I didn't say that, usually in terms of PvP I tend to talk of balance and PvP in terms of 70% or higher skill and performance brackets, so the top end, not the average and lower. If you can pin point anything in my post indicating this feel free to but this ties into something else which you admittedly do, I shall illustrate this later.


    This actually sounds like you're making the argument of a class being bad therefor it takes a lot of skill which is an argument predicated on fighting inferior opponents to win because you have to compensate the bad class with more skill. That's not the same thing as the class being skilled at all. At a high level of skill whether the class is OP or not you can have more skill on that class due to class design, instead it sounds like you're making the argument that because a class, (tamer) is awful you have to compensate for more skill. In other terms; tamers don't require more skill or have more skill at the pinnacle of PvP, you can't get anymore skill, they're just bad. I'll also tie this in as endemic of your views if I don't forget.

    No, they do. I suppose you forgot but I explicitly told you that maehwas for example have both susceptible start ups and ends but it's not consistent on every move and the vulnerabilities of those moves also changes, if it was more consistent, say the 10% start up and end on a move on a seemingly stable and low internet connection then you would be right about it being a desync problem and not a class, but either EU and NA have more problems which you didn't think exists or you're just wrong on that. Chaining 100% protected moves on a maehwa can be punished when the CC is luckily or properly placed, that doesn't do much to explain 'desync' problems. This is more move specific vulnerabilities, again which doesn't explain the 'it's just general desync' theory, certain moves are more vulnerable for whatever reason despite being 100% protected during the animation part you can still punish them before the animation ends through the protection they're suppose to prevent against. If you say otherwise it's either because EU and NA as stated have more differences or you're being bullheaded about this.

    Irrelevant. This ties in with you wanting to go off on tangents or educating people, you are talking past me or saying a whole lot without saying anything when it comes to me. I know this, I punish others based on desync. I'm not talking about that. As above so below. You think that only tamers have inconsistencies with their skills and it's only desync that affects other classes. This is very redundant when we're also discussing how even if it's just desync when you chain 100%, in your words as it were, "reliable iframes sas protections" and get punished we're still talking about a very crucial part of PvP, they aren't so reliable anymore. That goes against what you espouse.


    This isn't very pvp applicable, even if I only look at the one example which I play, maehwa, our options for punishing people while being safe are bad, even if we have a back we have partial SAs and a bunch of frontal guards which are susceptible to the same backwards hitboxes. Unless you think top level high skilled maehwa play is just saving petal drill, (which vs competent people will still get you grabed and killed) and trying to hit the opponents back to win with only petal drill because the other moves are risky, and that's not the same thing as skill.

    Being a better player also means dealing with desync, but why are you talking about desync? We're talking about class specific problems like tamers not having anything that makes them OP in tool kit. Desync is general. However the delay being random point is different verbage than 'desync', if that's true it is very worrying and it does rob players, similar to RNG on CC.



    Realize what you did. You just recklessly abandoned your main thread point, that's shifting the goal post and something that goes along with just arguing because you want, or doubling down on being stubborn and double think in the face of evidence contrary to belief, it does a lot to damage your visage and integrity. Still, in the interest of getting to a point of the matter, most people probably agree with you here which is why they thought your premise was ridiculous to begin with. In a game with as many skill design differences and numerical value as we have, having higher or lower base stats probably doesn't amount to much reasonably. If you're going to try to claim being objective and serious people you need to come with gripes about doing stuff such as shifting the goal post and abandoning your argument midway hurting any claims to objectivity and proper conduct.

    This hearkens to Castastigma's botched english, (luff u bb). Are you saying "what is the tamer to do?" when every other class is better? Sure, from that proposition then tamer is just bad and can't do anything, because their class is bad. Which is different than the players being bad or good.

    It actually does seem that way. Tamer relies on predictions and making decisions hoping and holding on for dear life that the server rubberbands or desyncs in the Tamer's favor, and they can get someone on move start up or something, or hit them even when the opponent clearly moved away, but get them into damage and combos anyway, because classes like maehwa can dance circles around tamer if the tamer doesn't get a good prediction or lucky desync/rng opportunity. Though that doesn't mean it's good for anyone, maehwas have no grapple and have issues with getting in on people with blocks / that are durable, vs. tamers they're hoping the apparently more inconsistent protections prevail in the maehwa's favor and the pet doesn't work.

    Not much from maehwa counters high iframes or super armor dash, you just hope you have enough damage to hit through the super armor and outheal potions because you can't grapple. For classes that have grapple, it counters super armor dash. Well, when it's decent and maybe if they player doesn't get shafted due to server/rng, but that goes both ways. This statement isolated is very damning against you understanding anything. It's a basic concept; dashing around doesn't mean you win, on a blader you either dash or attack you can't do both, dashing around is to provide pressure, avoid damage and avoid things like grabs, but you can very easily grab them as well. If you say the contrary you either have no good ninjas on EU or haven't watched them, or something is horribly different from our regions. Still, this is also a example of your absolute statements and the perspective you give on them which is from a tamer. Hold your horses if you think of saying "but ninjas are op" ok, you tried talking in general rules of PvP and principles then you're now talking about how you can't punish super armor dashes, yes you can, but you can't seem to because you're a tamer. That's different. And dashing around a warrior as a blader doesn't mean you win the fight. Same with dashing away, that's not winning a fight.

    Agreed, I hope they did it for all classes but if they need to work on it one at a time or what have you, then I'm all for it as well. No one should have to work with a broken class or unacceptably laggy and unstable server. Yet this seems contrary to the way you do the political and sensationalist thing, deceptive thing and just clamor on about how everything's egregiously so, then provide more reasonable assertions and facts, like desync being too prevalent.

    That doesn't seem like an advantage. Other classes have animation cancels, too. It looks like tamers are even worse than you thought.

    On the split damage I'm conflicted, I'm not as interested in that as it overall applies to the result and gameplay, they could be 100% anything or completely divided and it'd still be fine, but they need to tinker around with class balance and the numbers on those abilities if the abilities are too one sided, that is if we're trying to balance so skill makes the paramount different not the rock paper scissors approach to class balance.

    That's with the understanding that it's basically impossible to be truly objective, you're trying to be objective but you and us don't know that for each other, I am not in your head as you are not in mine. Self doubt being so prevalent is a bad indication... but you are humble, so there's that

    [​IMG]



    You do like the argument of authority, as I've said. You, if you meant it in that way, think efficiency is skill which it isn't, efficiency is in everything it's not the same thing as skill. You say that you have a higher RBF score and do better in there because you're efficient, as having a high RBF score or being in a top siege guild or having a positive KDA means something more profound about skill, it doesn't, it's an indication. You're not as bad as the reprobate Ploonge that claimed the same things you do. I'll grant you that.

    While I would mention that you don't extend the same judgement to you as you do others, post 78 and 79, and I do like to try to understand this game, pvp and make it better through discussions or helping others, and playing it, I'm just a former-one-of-the-best-players-in-another-MMORPG-that-could-list-more-info-and-animation-cancels-and-combos-for-maehwa-than-you-that-has-5-GS-and--5-RBF-points-in-BDO so by such metrics I'm inadequate to such purview. Unfortunate.
     
    #100 Nyhver, Nov 11, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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