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Territory owning guilds dropping to sub-guilds.. ruining nodewars?

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by TeRRoRibleOne, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. TeRRoRibleOne

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    I'm not going through your VODs to find them. You literally cried this past week because someone who built on a T2 didn't show up to get 2v1'd against you an Illumanti. Go watch your own VOD, you can see it yourself.
     
  2. Askore

    Askore Sorceress EU

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    why not? castle holders are players aswell, nice logic you got there if they're the best they shouldn't be able to do nodewars? and sit in the castle without doing pvp for months? locking the best players out of pvp content is just a pathetic design but there's still a way to do it 4 days a week.
    you whine about people abusing this and want pa to lock them away completely? you got it the wrong way, it's the castle holding players that should be mad at PA because they have no way to do pvp content unless they leave their guild (no guild chat, decs, buffs and nodewars for 48 hours)
    if anything the system is rigged in favor of non-castle holding guilds but for some reason they still want more because they're too pathetic to put up a fight and want the better players locked somewhere without any way to pvp.

    and on top of that I'm sure they wouldn't mind if they could attack other regions and actually have pvp on saturdays but that's not the case, the joke of a company that is PA removed it more than 1 year ago even tho everyone has been complaining about it.
    if that's what you meant then you clearly don't know oldskool, they're one of the few hardcore guilds and have nodewars almost everyday, even if enemy/sov didn't drop guilds I'm sure oldskool would still be the one to do it.

    oh yes the """"advantage""""" of having acces to the pvp content of bdo 4 days out of the 6 available, i'll be sure to enjoy it.
    maybe someday you'll realize t1 guilds have been getting stronger because every single guild is getting stronger overall and it has nothing to do with castle owners
     
  3. Huntler

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    Thats not what you said though my friend who unhealthily talks about me way too much (reread your quote). You said I cry when we get zerged, I actually love it when we get zerged, I think the ideal number is 4 or 5 though, not 3 (although when we did the 3v1 with cho I will admit that was a blast)

    Also again to correct misinformation, illum stays out of the fights when we have them drop. They are there just to prevent us from getting locked out.
     
    Asakku likes this.
  4. devante

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    Sounds like the guilds are being political, forging alliances, while gaining help from stronger guilds. So my advice make an alliance that benefits both of you. Because to be fair I can still ruin your node war even if this was fixed. Militia system, or I could you know, spy on you for a friendly guild and what not.
     
  5. clangpicky

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    you can do node wars.. just drop siege and come to node wars with your main guild. oh wait, that free money is way better. so let's improvise. drop our main guild after the siege and join on our alt guild the next day so we can continue to seek that great "pvp" and take t3 nodes/give to allies. its brilliant and all thanks to 24hrs guild cd. whoever said "24 hours guild cd = intended for new players" nice joke

    no one's locking you out of pvp, you just have to choose between castle money or pvp and your choice is clear. yes the game should have more pvp content but unfortunately this is all we have and even that is being ruined by the castle guilds. props to Resilience/Zealot/VoS/Venari for not doing this, at least for now.

    maybe one day you'll realize there's a lot of t2 guilds fighting in t1 but you won't because your ego and braggadocio is too big to comprehend this problem.



    now back to what everyone's saying. change guild leave from 24 hours to 72 hours
     
  6. OddGD

    OddGD Ninja

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    The issue was guild absorption and over-recruiting. An ideal balance would be a geared core, with gearing members. The total geared core would be spread amongst relative strength guilds, allowing for suitable weekly combat.

    That didn't happen.

    Instead, we're left with a guild who has an uninterrupted payment stream, that solves a dire need for many players and therefore is sought after. This means that 'geared' guilds dying, attempt to get a piece of that silver pie, increasing the overall average GS of a single guild, rather than spreading the geared players across multiple rosters.

    I have no sympathy for ManUp members who feel they have a lack of PvP. They literally created the situation they find themselves in by excessive consolidation.

    If you hoard a resource (geared rosters), you don't get to complain about a lack of supply (other geared rosters).
     
    Nexius and clangpicky like this.
  7. Roxies

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    I just want to take this opportunity to put this reminder out there. Illuminati are summit's horse cucks. They were told to go pick up summit's horse, and transport it to pirates for him while summit was on someone's epheria sailboat. Just figured I'd remind everyone that this is a thing that happened. LITERALLY a horse cuck guild.
     
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  8. Askore

    Askore Sorceress EU

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    yea let's completely forget owning a castle is supposed to be the end game of bdo and the goal of any siege guilds and is rewarded with an absurd amount of guild funds.
    dropping a castle for nodewars isnt even realistic because a weaker guild will take the castle then you will attack it again (because it is the ultimate goal of sieges) and take it back to end up locked again which would make no sense whatsoever. also this alliance and giving away nodes thing doesn't exist in europe so I have no idea if this is an issue.

    and a reminder that 24 hour cd is a bdo thing, in any other normal game there would be restrictions on payout and players wouldn't be completely locked out of pvp content so dropping guilds shouldn't even be an issue in the first place but let's just forget about normal game design and just whine about stronger guilds beating you am i right

    "props to resilience/zealot/vos/venari for not doing this" maybe it's because they never owned a castle for more than a month? current castle holders didn't do it at first either but after months of not doing pvp you realize that you have no choice, either you lose members and practice due to lack of pvp or you just throw away money (which makes no sense)

    "a lot of t2 guilds are fighting in t1" then they are t1 guilds, do you have any problem with that? if you can't beat them then you are too weak for nodewars you should just stop (or keep trying to get stronger and stop whining about castle holding guilds which are worlds away from you)
     
  9. CasualNova

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    Couldn't disagree more. Especially on NA the amount of geared/skilled player hiding away in t1 nodes to play Dynasty Warriors is absurd. Pretty much the whole FML guild is on t1s now, split and in-fighting because of internal grudges, and they were almost there (top2 siege) in terms of strength. Ask those players why they do it and you will get one unified response, siege and large fights are cancer.

    Geared guilds are dying not because they 'attempt to get of that silver pie' but because the server lag is unbearable especially in siege and as such, siege has become the most unfun thing to do. When you play 2-3 sieges where the lag is so bad that potions dont register for an hour, the majority of players disconnect and can't reconnect, when you can't respawn, when skills don't work and enemies don't render in at all, you'll understand why NA siege is dead.

    For reference, I've been in the 13 castle Calpheon siege and in the 17 castle Mediah siege, as well as spectated the last 10+ castle siege on Calpheon.
    In the first siege, my guild literally managed to lag into FMLs base and take out pretty much all of their structures and their fort while they were disconnected from trying to take the siege port. The game was virtually unplayable for most of the siege and only Mage spells had any resudual impact.
    The second siege, we were attacking Snake and they decided to leave because it was so much worse. People crashing as soon as they got into the game, over and over again, until the very end of the siege.
    Third siege Hexis got axed down by an invisible force within 10minutes of start, unable to see enemies, unable to respawn, unable to do anything.

    TL:DR: Guilds die because this lag is absurd and nothing is being done about it. If there were more guilds still there might even be a t3 scene still where there would be any guilds to contest Manup and Snake, and those in turn wouldn't end up 'ruining' the t2 scene.
     
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  10. Sugam

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    normal guild = 7 days wait
    clan = 24hrs wait

    Those defending that's its fair to be 150+gs above new players don't understand what competition is suppose to be about. If this was over a grinding spot or something else in the open world then sure, anything can go in pvp. But node wars is NOT suppose to be like this. They have restrictions on people outside being unable to participate for a reason. There is reasons why the RBF have restrictions too (though granted quite lose).

    So people who like doing this ether don't grasp the different types of pvp other then griefing OR they do know and don't care how it effects the community or its costs on the game for just as long as they get their lol's.
     
  11. Tron C.

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    Huntler is pretty bad at this videogame
     
  12. OddGD

    OddGD Ninja

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    I've been in T3 guilds, and participated in siege battles. 'Lag' isn't the reason nobody contests Valencia.
     
  13. CasualNova

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    Have you been in a guild that actually had the strength and plans to go to Valencia? I have, two actually. They realize that to take out MU+MU's allies they would drop they'd need an even larger force. Large force = 10+ castles = unplayable siege.

    Lag surely isn't the only reason but its a really big part of the problem. Why did FML disband? Why is Hexis close to disbanding? Why did Vertex go close to dying yet again? Because everyone was having fun lag sieging Snake for more than a month and sacrificing their saturday for a horrible experience just to deny one guild a payout they will get back eventually anyway?

    Lag matters
     
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  14. OddGD

    OddGD Ninja

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    I've been playing this game since launch, and have fought multiple iterations of guilds, including ManUp at varying levels of recruitment.

    What you've described simply reinforces my original statement, power consolidation has limited the availability of options.
     
  15. Jeffythewise

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    ManUp here, boy do I love seeing these threads to help us celebrate our 6-month anniversary of taking Valencia Castle back from Vertex and BlackRose. Some good, some bad solutions in the thread. The underlying problem seems to be newer players not wanting to fight against fully geared siege players because the gear disadvantage is insane. Meanwhile these well geared players look around the T3 nodes and see literally nobody to fight, so we then come down to T2 and everyone vacates those nodes too.

    Here's my solution: Scale gear down for T1 and T2 nodes. I know its asking a lot from the development team, but it would actually fix all the problems if T1 nodes scaled everyone's gear down to PRI, and T2 nodes scaled everyone down to TRI. Fully geared players can still join T1 fights if they want to play with friends, but won't be one-shotting entire guilds in the process. Meanwhile, everyone who does have gear and wants to use it will be encouraged to fight exclusively in T3 node wars and sieges. One reason why T3 node scene is dead is because when a guild like FML or GoodFight disperses, several players spread out to various T1 and T2 guilds where they can be godly overpowered instead of keeping that server progression at the top level of pvp.

    Simply adding more restrictions to our ability to try and chase fights will only continue the downward spiral of all the top players wanting to either quit or permanently join T1 guilds because once you get up to the top, there really isn't anything left to do. I like the idea of making castle pay start at 100 and reduce from there, but that will probably just lead to uncontested castle rotations. Of course what we've been asking for literally since server merge is please bring back multiple territory drops - the NA region simply doesn't have enough participating guilds to have 5 of them locked away in their regions.

    In the end, I think we all know that Pearl Abyss will change literally nothing, no matter how much we complain on the forums. The real solution would have to come from a large effort by the community to create fair, meaningful fights, and avoid 13-castle server stress tests because we already know it will fail. As ******** as it sounds, I'd actually like the top guilds to go to the drawing board of scheduling fights and actually showing up to them. Surely we'd have to set up 3v1 or 5v1 situations for ManUp to get any content, but I'm completely ok with that, and would rather show up to an unwinnable fight than chop another snipe guild.
     
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  16. Nits

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    That´s what I think. "Wash me, but don't make me wet" doesn't work.
     
  17. WeaselPaw

    WeaselPaw Valkyrie 61 EU

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    There was a very easy way to make sure top 2 guilds had interesting fights every single week, practice AND castle money. And if you have one ounce of brain cells, you know it.
    Weirdly, both guilds preferred to dodge though and go the easy way (easier to stay on top like this, you get a steady stream of players applying to these guilds "for pvp").
    Oh and btw, when the top 2 are asked why they don't fight each other, they usually answer that they fight each other enough in GvGs, so, why are node wars required to have pvp, even more if you have to take the hassle of switching guilds and dealing with snipe towers etc ? They can just have fun GvGs instead ! No ?

    Not that I care though what these guilds do anyway, I just wish they would die faster. The usual crap about how "they deserve pvp too !!!" while people are joining them KNOWING they won't get any kind of challenge is just disgusting.
     
  18. nyn idc

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    I hear alot that ppl join for advanced tactics.. they do and they are not disappointed about what they get with us.
    If you fight and fought the whole server and when ppl dont even want to fight you anymore in gvg's you just start and fight urself. And honestly i dont think we could get much better pvp atm then fighting internal. Yep we play with ourself ;(

    We fought enemy in the last 2 month i think 3 or 4 times at nodes and had several open world fights and even a gvg. So what are you on about? The only ppl that had currently any chance of beating us in whatever circumstances are most likely enemy... and both sides know about the strengh of each guild so i can honestly understand why enemy is not interested to fight us with the current siege rules...

    We did not had one of these problems if they would not "change" the system always and think they fix problems... the only thing that happened till now to pvp are changes that lead us to what we have now.

    If crossbuilding would be still an option, we had no lockt regions like that
    If they would not had bring that shitty 2h def system and the even more stupid milita system we could still go for 1on1 sieges.

    What are they doing now? Make axes do more dmg to buildings etc... what is the answer to that? Guilds are now forced to stay in their base or die maybe in 20sec bcs your out of position.. but thats not even everything... for a guild like ours that get teamed on everytime its possible cant even go for 1vX anymore since guilds just bodythrow your tower axe 1-2 times and die.

    Cry about the changes they made to make the system how it is now.
     
  19. WeaselPaw

    WeaselPaw Valkyrie 61 EU

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    First thing first, I'm not crying and don't give a **** about you going to NW even though the game forbids it (that sound weird right ?). I still think it's retarded to allow territory owning guilds to contest potential threats on nodes though as it means you can just blue ball some guilds from siege if you try hard enough. I just can't stand the "we're the best and we love pvp thus we join guilds that don't have to pvp" line. "Joining for great tactics" is just a harder line to argue against but means the same thing. I like guilds that know their **** but I wouldn't join one that wouldn't have to apply them. What would the point be ? To be able to answer something along the lines of "git gud" in these kind of topics ?

    Now. You're just confirming what I said, you guys don't look into fighting each other in a NW/Siege setting (3 times out of 8 weeks isn't much), still argue that you don't get to pvp and are forced to step down to another guild to do it during the week where you have to deal with bodythrowing alliances of 300 people, while having shown you could fight outside of NW by organising GvGs. Not even talking about how you both split to your own castles as soon as it was possible instead of challenging each other (kudos for the handful of times you fought each other on castles though).
    And as I think I already said, it's ok, one have to do what's good for one's guild to stay alive after all and as you know, and as we all have seen, losing streaks don't help achieving this goal, so there is no point to risk it when what you want first is to stay on top. But if it's what one want first, it should just shut up and not tell people it doesn't get fights when it perfectly knew that it would be like this.

    NA & EU situation, while similar, are a bit different I think, I fail to see how allowing enemy and sov to crossbuild would make the game more enjoyable. Or are you saying you would fight each other when "you" (not a "you" as sov but "you" as you both) weren't keeping doing it when you had the opportunity ? Why not just do it right now then ? Both of you could have used your alt guilds to drop the castle when ever you wanted for a while now. It would be a full week of NW + Siege. Eventually it may even lead to another week of NW + Siege, amazing right ? If you are able to jump to these guilds every week, I think one of you could do it ONCE (since there will obviously be a winner and a loser, no need to switch again later). Again, I'm not saying that's what you should do. Just countering your "views" on the matter as it seems obvious to me that people want their cake and eat it, despite having been told it wouldn't be possible.
    But I agree, most rules added since siege launched feels kinda dumb in the light of the amount of players/guilds interested (axes' buffs are retarded in every way though). It looks like they've been made for huge alliance took take on castle owners while we barely have enough guilds available for each castle siege.
     
    #79 WeaselPaw, Jan 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  20. Grizabella

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    The bigger issue is that guilds are working together secretly to predetermine outcomes. They divide up the nodes and then 3 of the 4 contesting a given node are actually all working to make certain that node goes to one of them. The one non-allied guild gets face wrecked and then the other 3 just stand by while the designated "winner" kills 2 of the 3 remaining strongholds.
     

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