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the game is NOT fine right now

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by irrelevant, Jul 27, 2018.

  1. T800

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    Feels like they are turning the game in to simple Hack and Slash MMO. Which is what usually happens when they launch it on Console.
     
  2. Buxx

    Buxx Lahn 62 EU

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    Why dont you just look for another game dude?
     
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  3. Tjaranis

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    Removing RNG resist: i doubt there is any effective way to accomplish gear not becoming even more “godlike” than it already is if we changed the RNG resist. I personally hated the RNG resist, but to change it they would have to redo every awakening weapon and all skill effects need redoing/balancing as some classes would be completely untouchable and others would be such easy mode kill its not even funny.


    Streetfighter with 15+ people on each time would properly also be pretty terrible. We can’t really compare a fighting game designed for 1v1 specifically with a role based mmorpg which are based on minimum 10-15+ players role based balance.

    ___________________________


    Ranged Attacks, the only class I can come up with right now where I feel the ranged dmg is not ok is high geared zerkers spamming cannon shot. Not that the damage is insane, but that it is insane when it is coming out of an immortal melee thank ;P

    It’s the type of damage I would expect from a burst class like the sorcs doom-ball to do (long windup,casttime, very vulnerable while doing so, slow moving ball giving reaction time etc), not an instant hit from a tank class :P


    Besides zerkers the only other classes I can think of which applies heavy ranged damage is rangers, which obviously should apply heavy damage from range, and Witch/Wizards in none-awak if they have 2500sp+ (or give up their awakening skills upgrades for it) which both have more than enough handicaps to make up for them having ranged attacks which applies medium damage, got long cast time, roots you, some are not cancellable making you insanely vulnerable, no SA/B for the vast majority etc.


    Removing either the wiz/witch or the rangers ranged damage and CC potential would be absolutely backbreaking for the class, or at minimum in the wiz/witch case making them into an “off-tank” setup which has nothing to do with the original concept or class design (and personally that would be a really sad decision imho).

    _____________________

    Pulls, there are so few classes that has this and I personally think it is a fine tool as it forces more spreadout fights which is a positive experience (clumped up fights is generally not fun and to much of a clusterfck for anything but gear to matter in it as there is little reactionary going on in a blob of colours).


    When I think pulls the only one that really comes into mind is the valk, which if pulls are giving an advantage vs agile classes such as tamers (assuming so as op seems irritated over it) then it is doing what it is supposed to do as plate>leather, leather>cloth, cloth>plate, as most know/expect a tank is supposed to be at an advantage vs. an agile class, while agile classes are supposed to be at an advantage vs. mage classes (and you cannot deny that agile classes played on equal skill equal gear does not start at an advantage vs. a wiz/witch).

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    Def+CC+Mod skills:

    I believe all skills that does high damage should not have protective capability (no block, SA, invuln, evasion, etc.), if you are doing high damage you should be CC’able so teammates can reliably safe their friends and players would be forced to try and tactically decide who to jump and when to go for the high dmg vs. staying safe from CC.


    Still believe Grabs either need to follow troop of all other CC and not be applied on SA or through Shield, or all classes need to be given a grab skill (as currently grabs are so ridicules strong because it is uncountable for some classes, even at 105%=always 60% resist, keep in mind you are sacrificing 10ap+ to insure that and even vs. zerkers you’re going to need a bit more for cap, successful grabs seems to still be the most guaranteed death I experience).

    _________________________


    However I see a big difference on “very annoying and aggravating to fight against” and “OP”.

    As example as a witch I find it incredibly annoying and aggravating fighting a good agile class, constantly trying to avoid its hit and being unable to land even chainlightning because of the near perma immunity and the fact I can’t do more than 1 “instant” cast per dodge (or I get CC’ed and died, gotta move Constantly or dead in 1 CC vs. high geared).

    However I do not find it OP, neither do I find it OP when a musa/mweahwa are running circles around me, being permanent SA, almost instantly out of range everytime damage lands and reheal, rinse and repeat forever and ever and ever.


    I find these thing incredibly annoying to deal with, BUT not OP and played correctly it can be entertaining to test rl-skills with it.


    Besides the cannon hand and the passive MR of some classes there is actually not anything I find “OP” or “bit to strong”.

    Imho the hardest classes to fight I have always found to be Zerker and Warriors, as a witch, simply because overgeared they become immortal and their damage is so high it’s impossible to keep outhealing and they got so much movability repositioning from them is a very short window, and it takes 2+ full CC chains to fully kill them (so disengage re-heal if they know how to play).


    I actually find Sorcs quite fair, and easier than most agile classes to fight, but again the difference of which class we play will have a lot to say of what frustrates us in the fights ^^

    I’ve always found tamers to either kill me in 1CC while being almost impossible to land CC on, or pretty easy to kill (I’ve rarely mead tamers where I felt it was a fair/close fight.)

    edit:
    when all that is said some of the older classes need a "coolness upgrade" at minimum on the animation sets for idles, movement etc... witch still using wiz animation set is just grrrrr, and tamers could use some coolness buff as it's all about ninja's and stealth...
    think maybe it's time to make their pet become "pets" and make them a true terror and protector of the tamer ;)
     
    #63 Tjaranis, Jul 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
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  4. Tjaranis

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    more reactionary play, less static rotation play...
    realise diablo is static rotation play. we are actually moving away from the "close your eyes and push your macro rotation bottom for win" gameplay which was far more common before the changes
     
  5. T800

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    How do you find to be more reactionary now, when they resist your CC and all you do is Hack and Slash until the next atempt?
     
  6. Tjaranis

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    you can't SA/B dmg rotated nearly as effective anymore, you need to use skills that makes you vulnerable for CC and bad positioning for the vast majority of your CC (making dodges and evasive skills more powerful/useful/needed to use more).
    this creates a far more reactionary gameplay as you need to React to what others are doing instead of just doing your own rotation thing and only reacting when you are losing the "dps trade" and about to die.
    position means massively more now because without safe SA/B on CC and some damage skills you will die a lot more bc of bad positioning, again reactionary gameplay to where and what others do around you, both allies and enemies.
    because of the ability to safe others by CC'ing their attackers again reactionary and more mindful(as most of the time it is not possible to 100-0% someone while staying 100% SA/invuln)
    etc etc.

    in general, it has become more about using your brain and thinking about the smart way to approach a fight, compared to before, and it has created far more tools to punish "unthoughtful/overeager/faulty" tactic and gameplay. While also raising the max for RL skill ceiling as you need to take a lot more decisions on skill use and positioning than before.

    and even though renown was part of the big overhaul and it made strong people stronger it actually made the weak vs. strong a LOT more fair as now you can actually CC godgeared and realistically kill them given enough medium geared people piling on CC for a 10-15 seconds slowmotion HP decrease until death, which would have been absolutely impossible before because CC didn't last nearly long enough and couldn't chain long enough to remotely damage a godgeared enough to kill them even with 10+ people on them.
    etc.

    -----
    what is your argument for it becomming more hack and slash than before? and define what you mean by hack&slash as it doesn't apply to the general mmo genre as it is in all dungeon crawler games (such as the diablo series).
     
    #66 Tjaranis, Jul 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  7. RealXared

    RealXared Witch 61 EU

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    Irrelevant (Lemon) is complitely right.

    The changes suck. I have been playing Maehwa for 2 years now (1,5 years on my old acc, 0,5 on my new acc). I loved her. I still love her in pve. But she sucks at nodewars, and in PvP in general. My engage skill is complitely ****ed up. I got FG on it (lmao), the moment I try to jump on someone I get CC'ed. Or the other scenario, I jump on someone and I get CC'ed after that because I have no CC on my engage skill. And I have to go back 1,5years in time when Maehwa had no awakening yet, and had to spamm Stub arrow for CC to engage on someone. Ridiculous.

    The stamina consumption increase on dash was also ridiculous. If I disengage out of the fight, I run out of stamina after 17 dashes, meanwhile the ppl who are after me just simply catch up. Ranger/Mystic/Striker/ lol even Witchards catch up on me, like there is rly no escape now once someone turns on me. (befor the nerf, you could do that in nodewars when like 10ppl were chasing you, you just dashed away, put away your weap and croch and u could hide in a bush or smth, now you cannot do that, now you just simply die.) Same applies to Bladers.

    funny thing is, they advertise Blader/Maehwa as the best mobility classes in the game. LMAO. Ok. In close range fights, every class has better mobility than maehwa, and in the long run, everyone just catches up. This game has become a ****ing joke. And Maehwa has become complitely useless in all sorts of PvP action.
     
  8. Prim nw

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    Nothing even about the damage from 270 ap ppl? A witch with 275 can just onetap ANYONE with a simple elixir rotation. No cc's or anything even needed, just TP in and onetap anyone in a 360 aoe around. A 270 sorc for example can just perma iframe spam and kill u with abilities that are normally used as poke. A good high ap sorc can legit 1v10 as they mitigate all dmg while having the ability to onetap anyone.. Them removing iframes from certain classes, without any compensation and then doubling all outgoing dmg, kills pvp for me.
     
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  9. T800

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    It's actually the opposite. Before you had to learn the skill rotations of all other classes to know when to CC them, so not to hit them during SA/FG.

    Now they fixed that problem by removing SA and FG from most Awakening skills. So you don't have to react as much as before, because they don't have much of them left.

    They didn't removed PA from from the game, so you are still safe to engage as long as you get your PA rotation going with Wiz/Witch. There was not much change there at all, even on individual levels.

    The changes that they made in April, made you more AP gear dependent, creating a bigger rift between player. And in doing so, they removed the efficiency of Evasion and DR gear. Where before you had to react to a player that was wearing an Evasion or DR set, by adjusting your own set with Accuracy or AP items, you don't have to do it anymore.

    The CC core mechanic change, made Combos shorter, and skill changes created even less skills you would use in a Combo.

    By Hack and Slash i mean, you don't have to think much now, all you do is slap on your 269 AP gear + Resistances, and combat become RNG. And if you meet players below this new Soft cap AP, you just delete them with easy, with out the need to CC them at all.
     
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  10. Rayin

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    How can melee even get close too fast to a ranged classes if they can CC them from far? or do you think that a melee class should have the same mobility of a class that has the range from its side? it's no more the FG/SA era, probably it'll never be, so there's no thing such "a ranged class can't CC a melee class because it's too agile" as pretty much everyone lost also its stamina so kiting is even less effective than before.

    With those facts taken into account, ranged CC are something stupid to begin with.
    Do you want ranged skills? good, they should do less damage except for 1-2 skills, for CC you should go melee and your CC should be unprotected, not like it's happening right now, with some classes having CC in SA or FG, some having those protections lasting even longer than others and on top of that even a good mobility.

    The only CC i could accept it's Stiff as it doesn't last so long, but KD & bound certainly not. And Renown is an issue, but it's small when it comes to balance per se, as it can be perceived more or less depending on what's your gearscore and what kind of gearscore your enemy has.

    No, that's exactly what he doesn't do, he belittles whoever has a different opinion and in past - before he has been roasted so much - he was used to point out grammar mistakes and how he couldn't understand your english to diminish your argument while other people could read pretty much everything with no problems whatsoever.

    What he does is talking of the same gibberish from a different point of view in disguise, but it's always the same, they always have the same conclusions or take into account the trend of the moment for easy likes and suddendly it's an expert of every argument even tho he didn't knew anything of it for months and only when an issue is called out loudly by others, he steps in "drowning" us with his laughable knowledge:

    "Sea hunting? gotcha bro, i can cover that argument even tho i knew nothing of it for 9 months"
    "Payouts? why not, no one listen to my rants about leveling being too easy, so let's beat that"
    "Hackers? i see that people are bitter about it, let's pour more salt on those wounds"
    "Witch being weak? let's absolutely ignore mass PvP and talk only about 1 vs 1 only, even tho i don't know anything about class balance nor i PvP"
    "Every argument you can come with? hey fam, i have some philosophical remarks to do, i'll throw in it even the meaning of life and some other kind of shìt taken from a fortune cookie, in BDO everything can apply as long as you're vague enough"

    Open your eyes, he just say populistic craps to grab some attention, likes and make propaganda.
    It's like talking about politics and saying "They're all robbing us, we should just kick them out of those parlaments and give the power to the citizens!" when 3/4 of the citizens would do exactly the same if they had power and the rest doesn't even know in which country they live in, so figure out how good they would be as rulers.

    He acts like the Messiah but he's not even a prophet, he's just a troll. He tries to cover arguments - covered and exhausted for good by other users - in a less detailed and more philosophical way just to get beneath your skin and fuel his own craps with your approval. He explicitely said that could make an AAA game in a month, he did it, but he doesn't want to release it because he's fine with his job and doesn't care to become billionaire, yet what he does is bullshìtting the entire community and play a game that for him has "potential" but he'd never be PA CEO because is too busy.
    And if you don't believe me i have the screens, he's just a buffoon, wake up.
     
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  11. irrelevant

    irrelevant Pixelstorm Tamer 62 EU

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    lol what, that's absolute bs cause they effectively reworked the entire kit of every class so you have to re-learn everything on top of all pre-awakened abilities that are way more op and in the end you STILL absolutely have to use FG/SA or you'll insta die in pvp so the gameplay is the SAME as before, you just have less skills and now they are different. They didn't fix the problem at all they made it way worse than it was before

    cause the dmg in this game is so ludicrously high, if they removed PA you would see random ults from random ppl 1shotting 10 in combat and you'd die in 0,3 second every single engagement in a bigger fight w/o PA

    they didnt remove the efficiency of evasion and DR, they increased the efficiency of gear and rng carry and all sort of skill-less bs. If you get good gear you don't have to play full damage you can go with some evasion and you'll be way tankier cause now the less fortunate plebs are forced to go full AP or they miss out too much while if you have good gear you're not forced to be full ap and you can get defense which has increased efficiency cause no one is running accuracy and if they are they're losing on a ton of much needed stats, which you're getting cus of how stupid the rng carry is now

    and that's another false statement
    the cc duration is MUCH longer right now than it was before and that's one of the MAIN REASONS why kuno and ninja got much better. Cause they lacked damage in the past since most of their engagements or CCs were bounds and knockdowns(grab mainly) with low damage and not stuns

    before stun was the best combo cus (and it actually made sense) and if you wanted to get the longest possible combo you had to engage properly, now you just mash buttons and you get a longer than before combo especially in a group fight with random ppl adding downsmashes

    you can get knockdown > knockdown and it'll last much longer than any combos before and im pretty sure theres a clip of a sorc doing 20-sec+ cc from a few days ago in the new system
    \
     
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  12. T800

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    I have so much easier time CCing players with out Resistances now than before, because they removed so many SA, FG from Awakening skills.
    Mystic is a prime example of that, so easier to CC now, compared to before.

    PA was always a problem, even before Renown system was introduced. It made Mass PvP easier, by giving the victory to the party with most PA. It's was dumb mechanic before and it is still now. You can't battle Renown DMG buffs with PA. That's is a terrible way to try and balance mass PvP.

    The only thing that makes them, no might make them longer are Down smashes. Other than that they are shorter than before.
     
  13. nolasigns

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    My class cannot perma-CC people until they deaded, nerf nerf nerf!!!
     
  14. irrelevant

    irrelevant Pixelstorm Tamer 62 EU

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    not sure what your point is with that? It's easier to cc people but it's rng based and not skill based while before it was fully skill based.

    i attack people that are standing still or that i've cced and my next CC fails so they turn on me and kill me, that's complete idiocy


    the average cc duration now is at least 2 times longer than before and i'm not even exaggerating. The longest possible combo before might've been longer (altho i doubt that) https://clips.twitch.tv/FunnyObedientRhinocerosHeyGuys this is on the new cc system

    before to get a proper combo you had to have a stiff/stun initiation and now any combo results into at least 6 sec cc and that's if youre not even doing it right
     
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  15. Schönfeld

    Schönfeld Warrior 61 EU

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    It's already the case you get cc for straight 8 seconds now unless you have " resistance " & wait for that " rng to proc "
     
  16. nolasigns

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    Either way, the balance is screwed according to some people when the game isn't a "who gets their combo off first" FTW game.
     
  17. Cold_Darkness

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    which should explain to you that every topic he opens will go to **** eventually. that doesnt mean he didnt start a valid discussion before that happens. since people are only looking at what the threads will up as eventually, they skip the interesting discussion part nowadays, though.
     
  18. LightsOut

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    You forgot to say perma stealth & stealth engage into grab are OP as well.

    Oh yeah I forgot, you rerolled to KUNO.
     
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  19. Rayin

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    It's from the get to go, since he made his forum account, i dunno why you're climbing mirrors defending him and can't go past Lemon's attitude when he makes instead detailed threads with valid points.
    Everyone can make a good valid point as long as he stays as generic as he can and speaks about known issues, is like saying that touching the fire can hurt, you'll get people to agree with you no matter what because it's something known.

    2 cent work.png 2 cent work 2.png 2 cent work 3.png 2 cent work 4.png
     

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  20. Wollbert

    Wollbert Witch 61 EU

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    no thats skilled, everything he does is skillplay, everything else is abusing op stuff. may he should play ranger, than rangeCC's are absolutly ok and skillbased. thats the mindset of an average 250 IQ adult
     

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