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This is why you need reduce geargap

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Zendeo, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Alicia Dominica

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    Even if the part about skill-dependent pvp was true (debatable), it will remain inaccessible at large: Be it months of pve-grind-gate in order to "catch up", be it the random nature of owpvp cluttering all kind of GS/levels together, be it the renown-system not allowing for much of a gear-gap anymore, these are all dominant factors that will prevent the imaginary skill-dependent pvp from happening.

    Sure, you can go match gearscore with your opponent in an arranged arena-duel or something, but this is community-made artificial "pvp content" that offers no actual progression and is no different from players picking this game for role-playing or whatever. Whenever it actually matters, be it in order to win node wars or grind-spots or generally progress or whatever, such arrangements are dismissed instantly in favor of the gear-advantages.

    The whole "this game requires skill once you have equal gear" is just a last straw people grasp when they want to keep feeling elitist about their "accomplishments" in this game that are entirely based on simple attendance, repetitive pve-grind-chores and lucking on rng. If you truly cared for "skill-dependent pvp", pretty much every half-popular western MMO title out there does a better job at it than BDO. Not that it would be hard.
     
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  2. Szakłak

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    I saw people say it was created for pvp specifically, been playing since launch, never actually saw anyone from devs or creators saying that.
     
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  3. AZzalor

    AZzalor EU

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    Get over 535 gs and with skill you can beat anyone, you can even do that with only 500gs.
    We have a guy in our guild who is just crazy and all he does is pvp. He trials the new members for our guild and easily wins against people 30-50gs higher than he is.
    Last week, a Musa wanted to join us (523gs/lvl61) and our guy switched to his musa (473gs /lvl59) and just destroyed him completly, to the point where that other musa was just triggered and left cause he couldn't win.
    It is definitly possible to win, if you put int he effort and time to learn your class and other peoples class. Yes, with the renown system this has been made more difficult, but all we need is to take that away and then it's fine. There is no need at all to increase the gear progression of newer players.

    Nowadays it is so ****ing easy to get 450-480gs, you can do that within 1-2 months and you can already fight 90% of the player base.
    Only if you want to be the top 1% you will actually have to work crazy hard for it, playing this game as a full time job.

    It has already been made casual and easy, but for westerners it's still not easy and fast enough. They want it even easier and faster than it is already, they want to skip all the time you need to invest and others invested to get to the same spot and this is nothing more than them thinking they are entitled to have the best and be the best just cause they bought the game.

    If you want such a game, go play a game that allows you to be max geared within 1-2 months and don't take a game that is working perfectly fine and try to change it so it pleases you while completly negating the effort and time spent by other players.

    I'm so happy the devs don't listen to those whiny children who for once don't get put everything in their mouths from day one but actually have to spend time in the game to get stuff.
     
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  4. Alicia Dominica

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    Sure, the usual "people want everything handed on the silver platter" and should "go play another game" kind of BS. Here's the thing, you get handed nothing for free even in fully equalized PvP. On the contrary, running in circles grinding PvE mobs and getting gear-carried will look completely carebear compared to actually having to progress through PvP and performing decently at it. But anyway, not gonna repeat myself here, stick to your fantasy hardcore PvP utopia in your arranged arena-duels that won't let you progress and feel good about bullying people in the OW as you suffer the karma penalties for all I care.

    And just for reference, I do have over 535 GS, nothing to feel proud of, it's all mindless repetition and luck, but I guess people who never performed in the top tiers of competitive PvP wouldn't know anything about real PvP accomplishments anyway.
     
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  5. Draconnix

    Draconnix Berserker 62

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    OP go back to ****ing wow/gw2. We don't take kindly your type around here.
     
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  6. Sizer

    Sizer Kilgannon Maehwa 62 NA

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    YES

    if they wanted to win PvP with skills, they'd play an actual pvp game, not a time-investing pve MMO with pvp in it

    YES again


    I still dont get any of your points, you're like saying.
    if NHL players wanted to play football they'd agree with us NHL2019 needs more NFL in it.

    pick a friggin pvp game if you want your pvp to be skillbased.
     
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  7. Sizer

    Sizer Kilgannon Maehwa 62 NA

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    that's not my point .
    I'm saying , no content is locked behind anything,
    sure it won't be much fun at lvl 1 and 0 gs but you don't have a mecanic in game, made to lock you out .
    exemple : you need XXX gears score to do this dungeon or can't join X red battlefield because your pvp ranking is too low.
     
  8. Asato

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    Then your "NHL players" should stop saying "BDO is the most skillful game". (I don't know much about US Football and I don't like the other football).

    I wouldn't give **** if they didn't go and started claiming "noobs want their gear instantly, they're lazy carebears; they have to respect us in order to compete with us in PvP". They're joke thinking that they deserve any respect. This is not a game where you obtain the gear via PvP nor a PvP ranking. If they think that they deserve to win because of the gear, they have to admit that they have a poor mentality which is nothing like PvP players mindset; actual PvP players would find it non-challenging and wouldn't be proud of it.

    Like you said, it's not an actual PvP game, and that's what they fail to see and they like to live in their illusion.

    Anyway you've read and is agreeing me. I don't understand how you're failing to see my points. You can go read again. But tl;dr : they are sucker PvP players who like to hide behind their gear, in others MMO's they would be considered PvE chickens.
     
  9. Zaolee

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    bdo is for carebears who have stamina to 1-shot mobs 8 hours per day to get carried in pvp.

    end of discussion.
     
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  10. Asato

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    Contents are locked behind gear. Even skills are locked behind Level and Skillpoints.
    I cannot go and farm at Kamasylvia without a required gear.
    And in order to not get OS or at least enjoy yourself, they need to have a comfortable GS. Even for some quests you need certain level.

    Unless I've been playing the game completely wrong ! I should have sticked to my lv1 at 0gs, damn I knew it !


    Anyway, why do you care?

    It seems like you don't do much of PvP and wouldn't care much if anything happened to it.
     
  11. Asato

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    When was it ever hard? Gambling and spending time OS-ing mobs is hard?
    I like grinding and I can grind upto 10h/day and I've never considered grinding as an activity that was hard. Anyhow... in BDO I haven't succeeded to grind more than 3h per day, it's extremely boring. (Maybe on my ninja it would be different, I'll try again after exams). And I don't like the idea that I'm grinding... maybe for nothing? That it could just disappear. I hope they release their caphra stones fast. Anyway, ffs, I have like 10x more fun grinding in ARPG's.

    Maybe those westerners can see more clearly than the Koreans? They don't see meanless grinding and gambling as time worthy or as "challenging" as Koreans.
    Maybe they don't see the point of doing 2 years to not even be softcap? They don't see why they should do 2 years of BDO to see what the PvP is.

    Anyway, you can't come in a western forum and try to reason with them your Korean mindset. As you've already said, it's different. I don't see what you're trying to do by repeating yourself over and over.

    I'm not pretending to know the game's endgame PvP. So I have no idea, if a 500GS can beat everyone above 540GS with enough skill; and if you can do that with every class. My ideas are infact based on what I read on this forum, maybe they're are all noobs who can't PvP and only whining and maybe I shouldn't base my ideas on them. And maybe this kind of threads shouldn't exist. Maybe forum shoulnd't exist if there's nothing wrong anyway.

    The number of threads complaining and the one with a poll (https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?threads/gear-enhancement-ptsd.217982/) show that there might be a reason for them to exist.

    Initially, I've started investing my time in the forum trying to give my insight as new player (who can have the time and put the "effort" to catch up, if its possible) on why I thought it didn't seem worth to invest.
    And I still think that's there no much interest to play the game further than trying the classes or until to the point where you hit a brick (gear gap). That's when new players should stop, it's healthy for them to stop there, it's not worth the "effort" (I'm not talking for all new players) But if I were to advise this game, this is what I would say. The game already has a bad business practice that shouldn't be encouraged (tbh it's the root of all evil here), so I wouldn't encourage any new player to play it unless they have like a huge amount of time and isn't expecting much from a game.

    A game needs new players... don't you think? Otherwise it's just a sinking ship.

    So I didn't really think of it as "They should give free stuff to new players, cuz they want best gear instantly".
    I thought "They should do something to bring more new players and give them a reason to think it's worth". Because as a new player, I don't see any reasons why this game would be worth. I know I will hit a brick and it will be frustrating; and specially if the gear gap is assumedly huge (Renown score and some "vets" experiences tend to point toward that)
    So, I thought the "reduced gear-gap" could be one of the things that could bring new players and give them a reason to play. Make it worth in the long run.

    I cannot even recommand the game to a "hardcore gamer" friend, just to show you how bad things I think there are in the game.

    Anyway, after seeing the "vets", the community. This game with a bad business practice clearly seem to deserve their playerbase.
    If you think you should demolish every effort going toward a possible new player friendly game as you see them as evil. Fine.
    I honestly think that a new player can see everything he needs to see in a week or two. And if he's objective enough, he wouldn't play the game more than necessary (CS grab being the biggest annoyance).

    That's what happened with me last year when I tried BDO. After hitting lv56, I was like "nope thanks". This May, I've only started to play because I wanted to waste my time and wanted to try more classes. I'm not decided yet to play again MMO's, as I happen to like a lot R6S. But if I wanted to play again MMO's, I will try again GW2 for sure before giving BDO any further chance, I might even get back to Aion (as it was the best game for me; I've tried a lot of MMO's searching for the same feelings, none succeeded. Perhaps that's why I'm forcing myself to try BDO further and see for myself (they're both Korean games). So calm down with your "go play back GW2" you simpletons. It's my ****ing life, who the **** are you to tell me what to do?
     
  12. AZzalor

    AZzalor EU

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    Anyways, you can't come and play a korean game and try to play it with your western mindset. As I've already said, it's different. I don't see what you're trying to do by repeating yourself over and over.
     
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  13. Asato

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    LOL. Nice copy paste.
    Let's try this : Then that Korean game should in Korea.
    If they're trying to do western releases, they have to adapt their game (Oh wait they already did with Kakao).
    You do understand that in the NA/EU versions, most of the playerbase are western right? The potential new players are also western.

    Anyway, maybe you should get some English lessons. It seems like you're just not understanding what you're reading and you keep repeating yourself. To a point to copy paste me. Lmao
     
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  14. AZzalor

    AZzalor EU

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    I'm sorry that english is only my 4th language so i can't perfect it. Maybe you should learn korean first before you complain about my bad english?
    And you know what? Originally this game was not even planned to be released in the western market, but as so many people here wanted to play it, they decided to release it here as well. You can be happy that at least the cash shop is not the same as the korean one.
    And now they are ****ing up the game a lot just to have one build for console and pc, which is retarded. But you'd really think they would make different games for different regions of the world? Nice joke.
    I'm sorry to say this to you, but PA doesn't give a **** about EU/NA, for them it's just a cashgrab here and sadly, it will stay like this, as long as there are enough people buying stuff from the pearlshop. Balancing and changes will always be made around the korean playerbase in a korean game. If you don't like that, then maybe you should not play a korean game after all.
     
  15. Shastalya

    Shastalya Warell Musa 50 EU

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    Dont be serious about a hobby my dudes.

    The game is fun unless you seek competition, then you get milked hard.

    If you don't like that leave, simple.

    Personnally i enjoy grabbing randoms at Gyfin making them losing expensive crystals.

    See ? FUN.
     
  16. Asato

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    This has nothing to do with English being your 4th language or not; it's my 3rd language. It has to do with your reading capabilities and understanding what you're reading. You should use your brain before starting posting just for the sake of contradict other players.

    If you had read, you would know that not once I have thought PA was giving a **** about EU/NA. There's nothing to be sorry about.
    It's a cashgrab here and there(In Korea); F2P's like this only exist to get as much money as possible from their players and they never care for their players but only care about their revenues, specially in the asian F2P MMO mindset.
    So the only way to make it change is to hit their revenue right? Make people stop buying stuff from the pearlshop etc.
    This kind of topics, they don't really hope for the devs to read, infact in many other games devs rarely read or listen to the community. They exist so we can list the problems and make aware of it the most people, make them realize something.
    In this case for example, new players would read and see little interest to start the game or keep playing => this will hurt their revenues.
    Anyway, the possible impact of this kind of topics is to make not enough people buying from the pearlshop.



    As someone stated it already and few people read it : In Korea, there's an arena for internet cafe players (new players) with equalized gears and directly lv60.
    So ... what happened in Korea? I thought they were all hardcore gamers !
    Anyway, I doubt even in Korea all players would be fine with those kind of gear gap, RNG enhancement etc. And the crone, caphra stones are enough proofs that they're sick of it too.
    Otherwise, why did they ever introduce them? Why did they change? Why are they making changes?


    All I am asking from you AZzalor, is for you to stop stating obvious thing that have already been stated and try to participate in a constructive way. You've always been avoiding the most annoying questions for you as far as I know. You only answer those you can answer with the "go play another game" kind of simpleton responses.
     
  17. AZzalor

    AZzalor EU

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    That arena has nothing to do with them wanting equal gear or easier gearing. It was in the first place only available at certain pc cafes so people could try out the game, but you can't actually play with it anywhere else, only this one arena.
    This feature is ONLY there to try out characters, that's all (and we might get that feature sooner or later).

    And yes, not everyone is fine with a game in all aspects, no matter what game you will have, some people are unhappy about that as well, but don't forget, the renown score (and with it the widening of the gear gap), was actually made for the koreans as they wished they had any reason to progress past softcap, and the devs gave them the renown score and overall they like that update.

    The caphra stone update generally is not liked at all and most korean players want it to be taken out again, so your argument is invalid.
    They are doing those changes (and all the recent pvp changes), after a new lead game director took over, to generally make the game easier to attract more customers, that's all.
    Is it good for the game? Time will tell, but so far it has not been good and especially people who have been playing this game and supporting it for some time already, want those changes to be reverted.

    And all i want for you, Asato, is to stop repeating the same statements over and over again and give me some real reasons why the time someone spent in a game should be devalued, just cause you are too lazy and want everything get handed to you for free and without any effort.
     
  18. Asato

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    Good to know. And it would be good to have yes! I would love to try out all characters with a proper gs.

    Yes, it is hard to satisfy everyone.
    If what you said about renown score is true... well here goes the little respect I had left for Korean gamers (concerning BDO mostly).

    Hmm suprising huh? ... Why would they attract more customers ! How dare they !:O

    Okay, you got a point for the "most" korean players opinion on caphra stone, wasn't really an argument but merely guessing. As I don't care enough to search for it. You got any ideas why they're not liking them? Too easy?


    That's the thing... no one ever asked for them to be devalued. A reduced gear gap isn't going to make their value = 0. They still get gear advantage. They still got more experiences. A reduced gear gap would mean that the gear will have less impact on the outcome of a PvP fight. It is still a huge impact if the better geared player one is a good player. It still will matters.

    And that's just plain ignorant to think we want everything handed to us for free and without any effort. That's the kind of thinking I'm asking to stop repeating. It's not an argument. It's your assumption.
     
  19. Noth

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    The basics of this is that Korean and Western markets are vastly different. While Western MMO can do very well in the korean market, korean MMOs start strong in the west but then taper off. I stand by the idea that MMO companies need to adapt their product to the region and market they release it in just like many software developers do. Until they do that Korean MMOs will always bring interesting concepts but sputter out in the west.
     
    #279 Noth, Jun 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  20. AZzalor

    AZzalor EU

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    That's a point we can agree on, it would be good to have it.
    The problem in korea is that most players didn't see any reason in progressing past soft cap, as you could beat everyone if you were at that point and further upgrading was not something you needed. As bdo is mostly about gear progression, being at the place where you don't have to progress further to beat the game (if you can say it like that), takes away the reason to further play, as there is no real goal you're striving towards to. Thus, the devs wanted to encourage people to push past softcap. Is that a good change? I personally don't mind it, but taking it out (or at least letting ap scale a little less) woud be fine and a good change.
    I think you fail to understand that most korean people enjoy that kind of games and new players do as well. They don't see the gear gap as a problem, but rather as an encouragement to get better and to progress (as this is what this game is about).
    About the caphra stones, it's basically what i already mentioned above. The korean people like the rng upgrading system and have it in pretty much every game created by them. It's just a different mindset and preference than most westerners have.

    The problem with that is basically why they introduced renown. BDO is neither a pvp nor a pve game. It is a pvx progression game, which means that gearing up is your ultimate goal (at least the game is designed for it be). Reducing gear gap, while it helps newer players to be competitive faster, it certainly reduces the will to progress and this is what BDO lives off and makes money off.
    I personally think that removing renown or at least reducing it's effects a little would already fix that problem, but making it easier to aquire gear or upgrade it, would maybe get more players, but most of them would also don't stay as long, as the long time motivation is taken away.

    That is generally a problem of most western games, they are meant to only be played and enjoyed for a short time and then a new game will take its place. Most players in EU/NA are used to those kind of games and thus are used to get everything done in a few months without big effort.

    It basically comes down to koreans having created a game for koreans after korean gaming standarts and preferences and westeners are complaining about it not being made as other western games.
     
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