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This is why you need reduce geargap

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Zendeo, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Asato

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    We have to also consider that the Korean version was released in 2014; most of the players would have by then already past the soft cap (I guess). And yes, it's logical that you could beat anyone if you're at softcap as it is reasonably hard to get there and it's already a good gear. PEN is hard to get as the success rate is low. So, it seems logical that you would stop at softcap.
    And if it is about gear progression, why couldn't they still stay and get that PEN? Without having that "big advantage" with RS? They're playing the game for the gear and not for it's PvP or content.?

    To me that RS just seems like a quick "fix" to get people stay longer. It would compensate the lack of content there's to play in end-game.
    I don't know if you're getting what I'm saying... I'm not denying what you've said. But it just seems that the devs are really bad. And it would seem logical that if they don't add new contents, people would quit (Specially after 4 years). New actual contents.


    I don't know if you're talking about western MMO or western games or whatever kind of genre. I would say it's logical for a singleplayer game (with multiplayer function) to die after a few months.
    For MMO's it quite not true. I mean who would spend like 3-5 years to develop an MMO to see it die after a few months...? (well wildstar guys did xD). If I'm taking GW2 as an example, they would release PvE contents like a looot ... soo tons of it. And they already have 2 expensions out. They are releasing contents.

    And for BDO, they should have release more PvP contents before most of its population got softcap. If they started leaving, it's due to actual lack of content. Not because they didn't have reason to get PEN. I'm sure if they got introduced like much more PvP modes, for example, Arenas with elo ranking that would give you huge rewards based on your rank and that they would reset every months (or x months, / seasons), more people would have stayed in the game and played it even if they're softcapped.
    GW2 got like a huge boost of players playing PvP after they introduced the ranking system.

    But I guess they wouldn't do anything because it might not give players more reason to buy more AM! Anyway, they could have thought of more items to add to CS instead of basing it all on AM.

    We're not talking about making it easier to acquire gear or upgrading it.
    We're infact talking about these renown bonuses, as they give really huge bonuses. All it does is to make lesser geared players useless and even demotivate them.

    For instance, Aion (a Korean game) had PvP gears (which has different tiers and levels) that give X% bonus damage to PvP. If you wanted the highest gear possible, you needed a lot of time and actual PvP's. It always motivated PvP players to play and get them but it required a lot of time as you need the PvP points to get them.
    If you didn't have the highest but lets say the middle PVP gear, it was still good and you could be competitive in PvP, you could kill the highest PvP gear if you were skilled enough.
    The highest PvP gear didn't make you a god. But it was still a monstrous gear to get.

    Now don't mistake me, if I was facing a really good player with a high PvP gear with my alt with the lowest PvP gear... there was no way I could defeat him (or really hardly) because the gear still counts and specially he was good.
    Gear can make the difference between equally skilled players. Gear won't make a noob PvP player win against a good PvP player.
    Let's say it helps to really show your skill.

    You could even get the highest PvE gear and go PvP (or mix PvE and PvP gears).

    You never were denied access to PvP because you don't have the highest gear !

    In fact you start PvP'ing really early in the game and you could have a lot of fun while leveling.
     
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  2. Noth

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    They actually could have done quite a few things to our version that would have helped the issue. They could have upped the rates of the enhancement and many of the rng mechanics in general to reduce the effect of rng the game has. It is simple enough that private servers without dedicated coders do this. Granted I'd expect a bit more of an indepth change such as increasing rates up to say TET, and leaving pen as it is now, or removing degradation on failure, or allowing failstacks to reach 100%. These are not complex things and should be able to be inserted with minimal effort and would help with the gear gap issue. It is called tailoring your product for the market most businesses do this.
     
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  3. AZzalor

    AZzalor EU

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    There you have exactly the reason why they introduced renown. Koreans complained about the worth vs investment for getting the past softcap gear. They were losing players as there was no real reason to upgrade past softcap and so the content was lacking, as all content in bdo evolves around getting more money to get more gear, so yes, most koreans actually play it for the gear and not it's pvp.

    Yes, the renown score is a quick fix that does not really fix the issues, so as i already said in a previous post, i think the boni you get from it should be toned down a little or even removed fully.
    While renown gives you reason to push past softcap, the way it works right now, it also ****es up the meta and basically fully destroyed evasion and it's barely useful anymore.

    And i was talking about most multiplayer games that are released by western publishers. They get hyped, the game goes crazy for a few months and then it already is forgotten as the new game hype takes over. This also applies to most (not all) mmos. They are not really created to die soon, but most of them are rather created to get frequently new players but don't really hold old players. Even WoW basically works like that. You are full gear in a few weeks if you play a lot, then there is not much left to do and you take a break -> the next expension comes out, makes your previous gear bad and so you do the expansion, get new best gear in a few weeks and leave again.
    Bdo is created to keep you busy at all times (which it certainly manages to do) and don't let you take a break if you want to stay competitive, as taking a break for 1-2 months will throw you behind in progress.
     
  4. AZzalor

    AZzalor EU

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    What you're saying is totally true, but it doesn't change the fact that the devs don't want to do it, as keeping you struggling to gear up and keep up with others is what makes them money as you have to play a lot and invest into artisans.

    But i think that instead of the caphra stones, they should've just removed the cap of failstacks, so eventually you will get it, no matter what.
     
  5. Asato

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    Yeah the failstack cap removed would be a nice thing and would make it work as intented. (given the description you get ingame).
    And make it scale differently for some hard enhancements (like PEN).
     
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  6. Asato

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    If they only play it for the gear... it's damn dumb. And they definitely are weirdos ! (Joking; I don't think less of races or population).
    I can't tell do if they really play for the gear or if they were conditionned to do so as the game designed it in a certain way.
    If they're not interested in PvP... what do they do? They just AFK lifeskill or just grind mobs? And why the RS bonuses? To grind more easily?

    Imo if they had actual real contents than just gear (keeping the gearing the same) they would less complain about gear (here being the lack of content or progression past softcap).

    It doesn't apply to most MMO's. If it's the case, the MMO is a failure. This is not what Westerns want as MMO to play.
    To hold old players, well they have to be old you know, so means it would last at least a year. Anyway if they lack endgame content at release, it will fail. It does apply to any game. Just like you said when the players were softcap in BDO KR they left because of the lack of content.
    I don't really understand what you're trying to say by Western games (which has much more quality games than KR or Asian games). BDO just casts an illusion on that "endgame content" as it lacks it by making sure that people will just never reach "endgame" with RNG's. It's not really a interesting content in itself and the fact that people in BDO would go for that gear is because they believe they can get access to PvP contents (which is not existent as you've mentioned it; "Western").

    And I don't understand what you're saying with WOW. Because it's the same with BDO, as you said people leave after softcap. At least WoW releases new contents. BDO is, as you've imply, designed to never release new contents?

    With whom do you want to stay competitive? Why? When you don't play it for it's "PvP" ?

    If BDO was like Aion, I would have no problem. But as you present it : it just seems like their manipulating players like really manipulating. Instead of being devs who would create a real MMO that would last a longtime with real contents, they just hide it behind insane RNG and that's it.


    Anyway, I think you gotta test GW2 and make yourself a proper idea of what a real MMO with contents is.
     
  7. AZzalor

    AZzalor EU

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    1) Yes, if the actually had read content, maybe people wouldn't care so much about gear. Especially content for all kinds of geared people.
    2) BDO releases new content as well, but that content is not really new, but just old content in a new skin. I personally would love to see a survival mode where you have to survive against hordes of more and stronger getting monsters from all around the bdo world. It would be endless and have a leaderboard. It would give people something to do and actually work towards/theorycraft for some time and always try to beat the next one on the leader board.
     
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  8. AZzalor

    AZzalor EU

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    failstacks already scale different for difference enhancement levels and armor/accessories.
    There is a formular which calculates how much worth a failstack is.
    I don't want to give wrong numbers, but it's based off the basic enhancement chance. For example (those numbers are just for example), a pen has a base chance of 2% to succeed. Each failstack increases the chance by 0.1*basechance, so for pen it would be increased by 0.2% per failstack.
    For a pri, let's say base chance 15%, the 0.1*basechance would be an increase of 1.5% per failstack.
     
  9. Asato

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    I meant in case of removal of the FS cap.
    I'm aware of the FS scaling.

    As it it actually... it just some basic requirement to get to the "real" base chance. It's not a real Failstacking.
     
  10. Findubar

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    no lol. it will add so much power creep bdo will weep for ages.
     
  11. Arzurag

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    Elaborate
     
  12. Findubar

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    its another 20 lvls of enchant over the base enchants. yes, at 20 you can force enchant the wep but how will that work, maybe keeping it at 20 provides more bonuses. and its another 20 lvls of enchant on every single item. (wep and armor afaik)
     
  13. Arzurag

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  14. 2Cents

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    That is the worst thing they could possibly do. You don't increase the chances on Loot Boxes!!! The revenue stream shows people are gullible and the highest revenue is generated from taking full advantage of them.

    If your objective was long term customer retention that would be different. The business model is highly focused on today, now, this quarter, NOT next year.

    Only a wise community can prevent this by practicing better spending habits, but good luck with that.
     
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  15. Asato

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    I can't believe what I'm reading.... and specially finding myself agreeing with you ! :O

    People like Dryed who spend 1000$/€ like nothing and thinking this is like really low for a hobby... they're separated from reality and supporting this kind of bad business practices.
     
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  16. Sizer

    Sizer Kilgannon Maehwa 62 NA

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    it's simple as '' some people like grinding '' . It can be a way to relax after a 8hours work day . just smash monsters w/o having to think too much.
    but I guess you believe everyone must play games like you do or they are retarded or something, it's ok , you're probably young.

    what's AION pop ? 5-6k ?
    BDO is already better than AION.
     
  17. Asato

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    It's an old game. Why are you being butthurt? lmao. BDO didn't exist back, bdo sucks ! boom bam in yo face !

    And btw, we're talking about koreans here, who grind more than 6h per day; and I doubt it's just for "relaxing". You're not concerned. We're not talking about you sizer. Cya.
     
  18. thdsm

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    This is such contradictory nonsense, even you should see through it. Unsurprisingly, you don't even have a source for this, except the ******** explanations from PA.

    "Most koreans" who supposedly play only for the gear would not need any incentives to keep progressing until the hard cap. That's because it's how progression junkies work: they only care about the little number that increases, or a bar that grows longer. Whether it provides some actual benefit in the game is irrelevant. Basically the people who push 63 or Guru X lifeskill levels. All PA had to do to make it nicer for them was to make the renown score a number on the gear sheet that doesn't do anything else.

    Furthermore, saying that players didn't want to progress past softcap is a lie. It is true that many would slow down with their active grinding, but they would still play the game, while earning silver with passive lifeskills/login rewards/payouts and attempt to progress their gear. Obviously, since progression past softcap is slow unless you're RNG carried, it would seem like a lot of players stopped progressing their gear entirely. Truth is most players don't like grinding, so getting to around softcap meant you could actually play the game how you wanted it to, instead of how PA wanted you to play it.

    When a competent game dev notices that players stop doing what they are expected to (here: grinding mobs like retards) at a certain point and prefer to do something else, he would think "hmm, perhaps the gameplay that gives progression is not very entertaining for players in the long run, we should improve it". When PA notices that they think "hmm, players prefer doing pvp stuff like rbf or arenas over grinding mobs, outrageous! Force them to grind mobs by making pvp trash!!"
     
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