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This is why you need reduce geargap

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Zendeo, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Dropkicks

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    At this point, I wish they would ADD a "gearless" RBF. Just to put all they crying to bed. It would be the best way to appease everyone. That way people could "put up or shut up"
     
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  2. Ricardo

    Ricardo Mystic 61 EU

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    It already goes wrong by the fact that you think this game is 100% gear and 0% skill.
     
  3. Asato

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    Did you play Aion and been the leader of "Bloody Requiem"? If yes, you should have remembered me by now. Anyway I suppose you're not the Hayate I'm thinking of. He wouldn't have said such things. Or if it's the case, it's sad to see what you have became.

    Wow 15 button combination ! Yeah because other games just go to 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,..,etc.

    Becaus guess what? other MMO's have more than 3 skills to hit on. I had at least 30 skills all keybinded that I had to use in PvP.... And guess what? There animation cancelling in other MMO's ! It's like you're discovering MMO.

    :D
     
  4. fenzz

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    you just proved my point.

    if the game was equalized you would still be bad and would cry about it. so why do it? does it even matter to you? will you do pvp if it was equalized?

    i think you're only here for the sake of crying and moaning. which is fine i guess if that's what you're good at
     
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  5. Nyhver

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    I don't consider anything hard or skillful because I'm the best at everything, it's simply too easy, nothing is difficult. Your move. Do you see how silly your understanding of measure and skill is?



    No, generally tab targeting does make it easy, e.g. DoTs or fireblast in WoW, you are right about there being difficulty in tab targeting but this is also akin to the less skill = more skill argument which is completely untrue but if you don't know skill or obfuscate it, you can make people think it's true. Take a character in BDO, remove everything, give them 1 damage max, can't move at all, has no health, no GS matters, just 1 hp, 1 damage. In your idea this difficulty means it's more skillful, it isn't, this is difficulty due to a lack of options and control, it is not the same as giving a player lots of control in movement and options and decisions or knowledge or mechanics and having the class be difficult because it's hard to master or play at the skill cap. You confuse difficulty of simplicity and being bad with difficulty of skill and mastery. This is a very common argument in BDOs current pvp change era, and I'm sure if, (it likely won't happen due to a myriad of reasons) you or anyone else on the "bdo takes more skill when you remove options like cc + sa being on one move" even if you were amply prepared to argue it to the greatest extent one could argue, your entire side would lose, not because you're bad at arguing, but because you're simply wrong and all me or people on "bdo changes take less skill and the direction of pvp is bad" side would have to show it's how it's true, this is also possibly mathematically roughly and if you deny it at that extent there's not much else to say, you can't be reasoned with. Sorry to be so dramatic but it's quite true.



    Making it free aiming being more skill intensive is an argument, you're not good at this which is why you're not getting it.

    123etc is fairly true, that's what you do in retail afaik and it's boring, and dull, and not very skillful you just button mash your rotations and shout "hard switch" while pretending pvp in WoW takes skill, go back to when it was impressive and mattered, like vanilla at a high level or WOTLK and rogue vs. rogue.

    You can also simplify anything to that extent, you think bdo is just aiming and moving your hand? That's any skill, ever, and any game, ever, and in life, ever.

    Tab targeting is just pressing the buttons, what's so hard? It's just being aware of what button you should press or whether you should 'click' the portrait of the person instead, what's so hard? But clicking is just moving your mouse it's not difficult at all, to you. Apparently it takes no skill or very little.


    You were the one that claimed "free aiming takes no skill and tab targeting takes more skill" so I interjected



    I've argued with people here before and may continue to do so, tab vs. non tab target is a bit rough to get into as far as skill even generally goes but you started barking off at me and shouting roughly true generalities, (as well as untrue ones) before you even read that much, it would appear.


    Hopefully you rest on this point. Linking me something that doesn't even contradict me when general sources are behind my knowledge of skill isn't going to end well for you. Gear does not influence skill cap unless it gives something to skill cap e.g. active items. Irrelevant. You can play skill capped at 0 GS or 5000 GS, skill is decided by game play, speed, precision, knowledge, decision making, aiming, timing, not by gear, it's bloody irrelevant for skill, but it makes a huge impact on result, still not the same as skill. Someone can be gear or class carried, someone with class equivalent better skill can lose due to gear or class, that's not a 'skill' issue on behalf of the one who lost because the other guy got carried by class or gear, and it doesn't affect skill cap at all.





    Yes, however BDO should have made this the fact from the onset. Gear didn't matter and wasn't as difficult to get and it wasn't as big of a difference, probably, theoretically and I understand it as I'm told back on release, because when everyone had greens and +15(?) was max with everyone grinding catfish being end game, gear wasn't as time or rng intensive to get as now. Even if BDO back on release and throughout it's history was as fast or short as it is to get gear now, generally, BDO should have began with gear mattering little and kept it that way, now they'll stab loyal players if they flip it, and they already have with the PvP system. Instad of any betrayal being necessary for action they simply should have always had gear be a very small advantage, an advantage, but a really small one.





    Reread above, anyone that's going to defend your argument of skill = gear I'm going to annihilate if I care to do so. Skill cap has nothing to do with gear.

    You're plainly wrong.





    Because it very well may be. You can't even evalulate it properly and you're going to claim other games are better. They might be, they might not be, but it's hard for you to have any accuracy or good basis with your judgement when you can't even judge the height of this game properly.

    CC breaks would be nice but they're not necessary for high skill at all, again you're sort of just throwing things out there and saying "well, you know, kind of, sort of, this is more skill...." You say other people have weak and non-arguments but you certainly are the same. CC breaks help add a level of player control and strategy, decision making, knowledge, etc. But this is one thing, while it should be added in BDO, and RNG on CC removed, this is just one level, you can easily point to the lack of control or mechanics or skill in other areas, e.g. no league of legends champion or cs;go mechanic has the same degree of control of 360chase into really fast 360 dragon bite + specific dragon bite properties that make it skillful and cool



    No. This deserves harsh rebuke for you, you deserve rightly so to be mocked extremely hard to the full extent of anger and vocabulary for this foolishness.

    McDonalds is really popular, does that mean it's really high quality food? Stop reeking of the weak "it's just an opinion everything is subjective" ethos and start properly having refined taste and judgement, you clearly do not understand it

    Most people at one point thought the earth was flat, does it make it true? No. Most people can think BDO is the most skilled game, does it make it true? No, it either is or it isn't regardless of what people think, sometimes people are right and sometimes they're not this is a incredibly weak argument and the way you tie this idea together is very illustrative. You and most people do not understand skill and that's emblematic by what you say, actions speak louder than words but where no actions are possible or necessary words shall suffice. You are confused about gear and skill, they, again, do not have much to do with skill cap at all, they're irrelevant. Yet you think you can clamor at me and call me ridiculous by your hoard of sheep who mimic what other people do, sheepish sounds and not much else is the result. You and most people do not understand skill, you and most other people can with your terrible idea of skill judge anything you want, you wouldn't know what good is if it came up and bit you.

    I've dabbled enough into League and can properly look into the systems behind it which is why I know it's a joke. If League champions on general or even if a few of them had the complexity of ninja in the same moba top down style with laning and team fights, everything still emphasized to that extent, then it'd be impressive, but as far as mechanical skill being impressive which is one of the most impressive skills, league and mobas in general are yes, a joke. What will you say now? I'm not qualified to judge it unless I'm high diamond? Or why not a professional player? Why not? But then, what difference is the argument on the system and skill input vs. skill allowed vs. skill outcome? Is my argument any different from someone high diamond or a professional player that thinks league of legends should emphasize skill more but it doesn't and most people think it's extremely impressive and competitive but that's because they're potatoes that don't understand the basics and that's why low bronze looks like trash and it always will? Well, is it any different?

    One of the only impressive things in League of Legends is kha'zix multiple jumps before landing, one of the only impressive things for skill cap League was Zed vs. Zed with Faker and Ryu, that's not even a thing in ranked. You and anyone else no matter your prestige if you have an issue can call me up and kiss my rear.

    You can play any moba you want, any shooter any fighting game if you dare. Skilled MMORPGs are my domain and you'll remain at the bottom when skill in a MMORPG actually matters and I care to dedicate some of my time to then enter the ring. Prove me wrong if you'd like, I bet you can't. Not because you don't want to, you'd like to flex your ego, it's because it's beyond your abilities to do so. You don't even know who I am, but you should, for your sake.

    I've given you lots of time but this is also why I dislike spending exorbitant time on you and others at least at times. You give weak statements, don't understand the words that leave your mouth and then scurry around to the next corner only to regurgitate the same filth. Come now, stop being glib. Stop being pretentious. It doesn't matter how much you plug your ears and say "no but its a fact BDO takes no skill" or "no but its a fact gear = skill cap" it doesn't make it true.
     
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  6. Asato

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    At this point, I'm starting to believe you don't know what you want to talk about anymore. Or that you're not capable of doing said analytics.
    If you're for a skillful game, then why are you taking part of the "gear dependancy" ?

    So let's do some analytics on what you said right here. Let's see if you can find the flaws.

    I'm not denying that to see deep combat mechanisms specific to a class, you have to play it a lot. It's like that in everygame, you play your class, you have to master it. Thus the definition of "skillcap"; at a point you have mastered everything a said class has to offer, well you have reached the skillcap.

    So this guy says that :
    1. I don't know his GS. But I assume it's lower than 520 but enough to deal sufficient damage to his friend.
    2. Tells to me : "How can you tell it's not skill just gears". And then he proceeds to take as an argument a case where he did a fight against a non-PvP player, a lifeskiller, against whom he has won.
    3. He asks my gear to prove a point? Which might be same than yours. I'm not above full TRI so I'm not allowed to have an opinion. An opinion that's based on my readings of the forum and observations, my personal experience as a new player; giving maybe some perspectives that players (said "vets") might not have anymore because they're not enough outside of the box.

    Again. I'm not saying the game doesn't take some skills to play properly PvP. All PvP games take time to master a class and brains to outplay the other players.

    I'm saying that the requirements are high and it's gear dependant to have a proper access to PvP for new and/or returning players.
    You just said that we don't matter because we're full TRI or below. What does it mean? That means that it's gear dependant.

    Hell... even 500GS players are complaining about a 40 or 50 GS differences.

    I'm not denying that you can outcome the gear differences by outskilling the enemy player. But in game like BDO without PvP gear or instanced PvP modes where gear don't matter,... well you gotta admit there's a limit to what a player can overcome or not by being better.

    If you don't think there's limit on that, well you're denying the impacts of having gears and thus saying it's not gear dependant.

    You're just confused because you don't know what skillcap is. And I believe what they're more saying must be "gear capped".

    If they're saying skillcapped and talk about gear differences, they don't know either what skillcap is.

    That's exactly the point.

    How could I when I haven't experienced any high level PvP?

    I don't know if at this point... you're realizing this but... That's what it's all about. People would like to see the high level PvP. So how do you they achieve that?
    1. Grinding a lot without knowing if it's worth. And that's what makes new players quit the game. Maybe you don't care about new players; good that means the game will die slowly.
    2. They may one day ease the access to high level PvP?.

    The skillcap is about what you can do with your class at it's highest potential. When you reach it, you can claim that you've perfected the class. (thus why we say some classes are highly skillcapped, because they're harder to master).
    And how can we try to do that when we don't possess the highest gear possible? (Highest damage / Defense your class can have. Highest potential). One has to have the highest gear and would have tested the class with said gear to talk about skillcap.


    I'm sorry when did I say that? When did I think that? Specially. When did I talk about skillcap? Except when you started talking about it.
    I have like no idea what you're trying to say or talking about.

    It's like you read something else when you read other people's posts when you decide you don't like it. You seem to be having arguments with yourself. Maybe try understanding what skillcap is. Thanks.
     
  7. Nyhver

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    jfc

    Reread what you said and what I said and then see if what you said makes sense again

    What do you mean why am I taking part?

    You don't know what skill cap is here's what you quoted

    "
    "Skill cap (in our case, of a class/spec in WoW) is the point where a player is so good at using his abilities/class/spec - he cannot become better at it because he is limited by its mechanics, thus making him(her) skill capped. In other words - it’s the maximum level of play that can be achieved with a given spec and how much of a difference there is between a good player and a flawless player of that specific class.""

    Gear is irrelevant, even your quote had nothing to do with gear because the definition of skill cap is as it sounds, it's skill at a high level or the highest level, gear is irrelevant





    gear does not = skill, you don't know what skill is, as I've said, or the words coming out of your mouth

    you can have high level pvp you just need to fight good opponents and it should emulate high-gs, (e.g. more ap than dp at lower gear levels) you haven't fought any which is your problem and you aren't very good which is another problem and your analytics are trash which is a big problem

    I've always had worse gear than avg and 'well equipped' average pvpers, I still experienced pvp and I'm pretty skilled at my class and very knowledgable despite them reducing skill gap between players

    Is this you trying to be cute? How can you post stuff like this and think you'll get away with it given the exchange that took place? Are you drunk?
     
  8. Asato

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    And do you see how silly yours and others' are in this post?

    The argument of "tab targetting" or "free-aiming" is just void. It depends on the game's mechanics and to personal favorites with what you're at ease with or not.

    Anyway you just missed completely the point.

    I don't find the free-aim hard and I do think it shouldn't matter when you're judging a game's difficulty.

    Others think tab-targetting suck and prefer free-aim. But they shouldn't take it as an universal fact. It's upto personal favorites. There's plenty of examples.

    Read my answer above.

    But what the hell? "No" but "generally yes"? ...



    So I'm right about there being difficulty. What else is there to discuss? I'm not the one who's claiming that tab-targetting is "tab, 1,2,3, easy peasy". I was merely trash-talking those who cannot see that there can be difficulty in tab targetting.

    I gave my opinion anyway. For me, free-aim = easier than tab targetting. But hey... Am I taking this as an argument to say anything about BDO's complexity?

    What less skill = more skill argument ? Like guildwars 2 have only 10 skills that you can use at same time and thus easier to play? Meanwhile WOW has +40 skills that you can use etc?
    I really don't get what you're trying to say. We're discussing something that shouldn't even be discussed because its personal favorites. And then to try to prove your point (which was what exactly?) you open new discussion about something people didnt even talk or care about. You're drifting off-topic.

    So take a character in BDO, remove everything. Give them 1 dmg, 1 hp, and make them immobile. What are they supposed to do? What are you trying to say. What's the difficulty here? I don't get your point. Bad example. Pass.

    But you can find a lot of simple but difficult games if you want.

    It's also nice to know that you think I have an idea about something in your mind. So in your mind, I had an idea about a "said" difficulty, that I didnt understand at all, would mean it's more skillful?
    Hmm okay. So who said what was similar to "giving a player lots of control in movement and options and decisions or knowledge or mechanics and having the class be difficult because it's hard to master or play at the skill cap" ?

    Are we still talking about "free aim" versus "tab targetting" ? Or did I say something else to upset you?
    If so the lack of the option "free aim" would make a tab targetting game easier ? So then just say it. Talk about examples concerning the "free aim". What options and more complexity does it add etc. Until now, sorry I fail to see those (maybe cuz you have given none?).
    To me the free aim gives you more flexibility and bypass the complexity or "annoyance" (to certain) of the tab targetting (or should I say the simple mechanism, or the lack of complexity). Thus making it much more simpler.

    You only move your camera with your mouse(A thing you're already doing in a tab targetting game) and just move with WASD + Skills and combos you do in BDO.
    Meanwhile, with tab targetting game, you have to move your mouse to look around (and aim for those who mouse-click) while moving in the opposite direction or any direction. While doing this, you have to then use more buttons on your keyboard to "target", "switch target" and while skilling at the same time. It can be pretty reflexe demanding. You guys imagine that tab-target = staying immobile? ...


    I'm sorry... whaaat?? XD
    It's like you imagine I've said something about something and you have a whole monologue...

    I beg your pardon. I'm supposed to deny what?
    Well okay I guess I cannot be reasoned with about something I didn't even talk abour or have an opinion about.

    I don't care yet about the "CC+SA on on skill". Simply because I don't know all the classes to a reasonable stat. I cannot comment on that.

    But it's good to see that you're so TRUE about like a lot of things. That's good! It means you're a lot flexible! (Yes sarcasm.)

    I mostly already answered above.

    I cannot relate to WoW. I've only played it for a month (full of arena PvP, not PvE like in BDO). It was already older than Aion and looked ugly, and it was slower.
    So I cannot tell if you used 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 as your keybuttons or if you used macros (I'm all against macros).

    But if you think it's true just because of wow? Wow... Anyway, so you think WoW doesn't take skill ? Good for you. That's your opinion. From my experience I calculated that I would need more than a month of PvP to start being good on Hunter(or Ranger was it?). I could only imagine that having a higher rank would mean it's harder? So you played a game just button smashing... not cool for you I guess?
    Again I cannot comment on WoW.

    But it's funny to see some contradictions. You said that I was good at aiming and I said so too. Now you're saying that I don't think free aim is skill intensive because I'm not anymore good at it? xD okay. I guess everybody their own standarts anyway. If you think it's difficult or skill demanding well okay cool. I think it should be so basic that it shouldn't be considered as difficulty. I mean.. the hell? Are we playing an FPS?

    Or do you think you're playing a FPS game?

    Anyway, for the "button smashing" yeah it's pretty low to imagine that people play a game simply by doing 1,2,3,4,5,6 in order.
    For Aion, I had my buttons on 1,2,3,4,5,6, Q,E,R,T,F,G , Alt+1, Alt+2, Alt+3, Alt+4, Alt+5, Alt+Q, Alt+E.... Ctrl+1, Ctrl+2, Ctrl+3,... , Ctrl+Q, Ctrl,E,..., etc. And in addition I had like 11 buttons on my G700 mouse. And I was using F1, F2, F3, F4 for pots. And even Ctrl+F1, F2 etc for things I can't remember. But I was using almost all most of keyboard keys in an optimal way I thought it could.
    You think I was doing them in order? Like a bot? Nope man. I place the skills on the buttons according to how it was gonna used, how fast can I reach it, which are the most used skillls, and which are not, for which situations. Etc. And then it takes you at least a week or 2 to be familiar after you optimized them for you and even more time to be fully efficace. Don't forget that you have to be quick and efficient with your skills.In Aion, the most a skill could get as CD was like 3min (in average, maybe some exceptions for DP(Black aura here) skills, like 10min) and often skills that you would long CD was like 1min. So to say, you needed to use them all the time. Those are buttons I was constantly using. And there was a lot more, like animiation cancel, jumpskill, weaving etc.

    And now you're going to tell me that's 1,2,3,4 I win? ... Wow.

    You know what? By using your logic : in BDO it's even simpler, I have less buttons to smash. Once I've been used to the buttons to smash for specific skills, it will be doing them by muscle memory. I have to smash even lesser buttons than I had to in Aion.
    I'm gonna take the exact words of yours "It's just being aware of what button you should press or whether you should 'click' the portrait of the person instead, what's so hard? But clicking is just moving your mouse it's not difficult at all, to you. Apparently it takes no skill or very little."
    And it's the same about BDO. You just need to be aware of what button does what and you should not even "click" on the portrait (I see you're a mouse clicker) and you just have to aim. What's so hard?

    I don't think you read the rest of the topic or anything I wrote.

    I just didn't claim that out of nowhere.

    People here were saying "tab targetting takes no skill" which would imply that free-aim here on BDO takes skills.

    So nope. You just felt offended.

    Nope again. Read above. I didn't bark off at you. You did at me. Or you just felt offended.

    And if anything.... it's you guys who are claiming stupid generalities. I'm simply contradicing them. Plain simple. But if you can't tell the difference. Well that means you don't read at all the posts I quote and I reply to. So anyway, why are you on this topic if you're barely reading any?

    Seeing what quoted for your answer... it just proves it. You truly didn't read or try to understand at all and you talk off topic.

    I demonstrated how you w

    It doesn't contradict you? I just quoted how you said "despite having big impact"
    I'ts not going to end well for me? xD Let me doubt it and have a big laugh.

    So lets see... skillcap = skill of someone for you?
    It's the potential of you can do with a said class. And we can have different skillcaps for different classes. Lets say if warrior is easier than ninja to master, well the skillcap is lower.
    Skill = how one plays. He can be good or bad. Very good. Very bad.

    I think you're just confusing skillcap with "skill".


    Anyway let's do this.

    For the precision ,how do you do it? How can you know exactly how much damage you're gonna take or deal ? you gotta have a steady referencing point right? Generally those are made by "hitting" or getting "hit" by highest gear while being highest geared. For the skillcap, you gotta know exactly the potentials of your class. You never can know them if you're playing with 200GS against 500GS.

    Well I just realized you were really talking about the skill of someone. So I'm just gonna stop here as I agree with you. The skill of someone isn't defined by his gear, but how would you define the skills of players if you don't give them equal gears? I always said in this favor, or did I say something else? But people here think they're better PvP players or should I say they deserve to win because they have spent more time making gears and they're not in favor of skillful plays could the game have.



    Well I think we're on the same page then.

    OP's should generally make a better and revelant post than this to get more attentions to the matter. Instead of making "hate" or provoking posts to only tilt the gear dependant veterans.

    Subjective things are subjective. Facts are facts. G-force 9,81m/s^2 on earth isn't subjective.
    McDonalds can be high quality food for someone from a poor country without McDonalds who hasn't eaten such food. It is not for you, because you're used to see it as poor quality food and you have the options to go to more fancy restaurants with healthier or tastier food.
    McDonalds is healthy food? Mostly not if you look at scientific researches and the used ingredients.

    I cannot even imagine you really brought this kind of example to prove a point. And failed.

    Wow... Very nice. Very polite and refined man you are! :)
    I just told you a fact. And even then you add your own personal judgement and claim it false.
    You're not gona say that LOL or DOTA 2 are successful? They have world tournaments with millions of prize pool. And it's the most viewed game on twitch. I'm gonna use one of your stupid arguments and I'm gonna say : if it's easy and doesnt demand skill, why don't you go participate in the worlds? You're gonna win easy.

    Anyway, I've started really reading when you started comparing different genres.
    You seem pretty much tilted by the mention of LOL (wait you brought up LOL and DOTA2)... I mean... wow all this? xD
    Is it possible that you were a bronze and people have been mocking your skill?

    A fact is, league of legends possess a proper system to quantify a players skill. If you're bad due to lack of knowledges, skill etc you will drop leagues unless you improve yourself.
    If you're good enough. You will climb. Simple as that.

    Can you say the same for BDO? Does it have a system to measure your skill? I doubt.

    You know what? I think exactly the same thing about you. I don't even think you understand what you read. Let alone your weak arguments, your weak examples are laughable and really bad.

    I think the pretentions ones are you and the other who think that having better gear makes you a better player skillwise.

    Yes. I cannot say that "it's a fact BDO takes no skill". I think I have more refined idea about what a fact is. I'm not gonna believe your said "fact" just because you've said it. Who the **** are you? I'm the pretentions one? If anything, this BDO post is filled with pretentions ****ing "VETS". You're the PRETENTIOUS calling people "noobs not even past full TRI". Again who the **** are you? You're even contradicting yourself. Calling us noobs because we have TRI and then you say that skill is irrevelent to GS etc.

    You're reading something I did not say. And you take as personal offense things I say that aren't related to you. But hey if you're identifying yourself as a "vet" (note the quotes, this means I'm not including all vets) who think they deserve to win because of gear and not skill; well what can I do? You're right to be offended.

    To believe that "fact" if it's one, I'm gonna have to test it myself right? I'm just asking to make it easier to test that fact.
    Summer holidays are coming. I can farm a lot if I want to. The hell... I even made a ninja and valk in one day, and I opened my zkarka on my ninja and made it PRI, I'm willing to make it TRI and maybe TET, and I'm willing to take time to get a dande and some boss gears and acccessories (the most difficult ones, I still have Asula, I didnt have much success enchanting to TRI my ancient set.). All this (well ninja seems very nice) because I've read that Ninja is powerful enough to compensate for the gear gap difference unlike other classes and that his skillcap is highest. I'm gonna test it and have a proper opinion.

    And you just thought I was saying skill cap = gear.... wow. I never even said skillcap in this topic or any others I could have posted. Simply because I don't know about the skill cap in BDO. I'm not claiming to know things I don't.
    But again you're thinking skillcap = skill. Those are different things.


    The rest of your BS about MOBAS, I'm not even comment. It's your opinion. Not a fact. You think it's a joke. A lot of people think not.
     
  9. Asato

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    Read my above post. I mostly answered.

    Anyway let's go again.

    Skillful game = skill cap???? Is that what you understood? One is about a class. One is about a game. You started saying skillful ffs.

    Gear is irrevelant yes because it has to in an environment where the gear shouln't be an factor.
    Skillcap is what you can do with your class. You're only limited by it's potential. If the class would allow it, you would keep improving. Skillcap is when you attain the point where you cannot be better with the said class.
    For example, assuming Ninja has higher skillcap than warrior: A player who has a lot of skill could be capped with warrior and be perfectly playing him with ease. Meanwhile if he had played Ninja, he could never reach the cap and just be an average ninja.

    Skill cap =/= skill.

    But to say that one has reached the skillcap of a class : He must have played the said class to it's maximum potential. And when do you reach that? At maximum gear or at a point where the gear isn't a factor anymore. Anyway, imho it's the case for a gear depending game such as BDO.

    You would be mocking me if I started claiming I've reached the skillcap of my lv58 DK at 398 GS, wouldn't you? And you even said that yourself, it's because I haven't played at high end game. Ffs, you're mocking people who are full TRI and calling them noobs. I doubt you would believe of one those "noobs" said to you that he has reached the skillcap of his class.

    Sorry I assumed you were. But what you were saying and considering what others were saying... It would be logical for me to assume that you've been taking a part. Specially when you call full TRI noobs.

    So to have high level pvp... you just have to emulate it with people with similar gears while having no idea at high level pvp ?
    After my readings on forums and what veteran peoples say... a class can completely be different, stronger or weaker, past some point. Like at lv61 you'd deal more dmg. You'd shine a lot past this much AP etc. Because classes have different AP scales? Dunno... I just can't imagine myself doing duels with similar GS and then believing it's high level PvP...
    I mean it's okay and cool if you were believing that. I don't judge. But it certainly isn't my ****ing problem.

    And why would you assume that I haven't found any of similar gear? I've fought plenty but they're hard to find tho. I just didn't happen to think those were high level PvP...

    And my analytics are better than yours tbh. As it seems you're giving none of that would be considered readable or understandable.
    Ffs, you're saying
    "Most people at one point thought the earth was flat, does it make it true? No. Most people can think BDO is the most skilled game, does it make it true? No, it either is or it isn't regardless of what people think, sometimes people are right and sometimes they're not this is a incredibly weak argument and the way you tie this idea together is very illustrative. "
    I mean flat earth? Really bro? Are we living in the 1600'? You saying this and then say that my argument is weak? When you take **** examples as this one. Anyway, I'm not the one going around and claiming "BDO is the most skillful game". And you think there's a truth to be found? Because some are right and some are wrong? Like black and white? ... Wow. This just demonstrated your intellect. To think one game is most skillful and keep it as opinion for yourself or show it to say why you think one game is the most skillful for you is one thing. But to think that and start claiming it's a truth to be found ... it's another thing.. Like another level pretention or stupidity whatever. If we take your example, you would be one of those who'd think earth flat. Because you start claiming things that are subjective to be truths


    And are you mad?

    Or maybe scared? That if they closed gap between gears, the noobs might defeat you?
    After all you deserve to win because you've earned that gear by grinding or afk-lifeskilling hard, don't you?
     
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  10. Asato

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    Please, ffs. You had no point to be proven to start with.
    If anything, you just proved my points with your assumptions.

    And you're good for one thing. To not read and still being able to come to a forum. To be honest, it's damn impressive !
     
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  11. Nyhver

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    It's nice that you went into as much depth as you're capable of. It's unfortunate that such matters are currently and perhaps always beyond your capabilities.

    You're reprobate, frivolous and glib.

    You're a potato.

    Furthermore, no one needs to respond to anything plainly wrong when you say things like this:

    I rest my case.
     
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  12. Asato

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    Ok last thing @Nyhver ,

    You should re-read this. I've quoted yourself. And I copied what I've already answered.

    This is what made me think you didn't know what skillcap was and why this contradicts yourself. Afterwards you said that a player with 0GS can be skillcapped ? You don't even believe your sayings. Maybe I misunderstood it?

    I understood it as : "and they think they're skill capped in PvP" . Which would mean that they wouldn't be able to be skill capped with full TRI after your sayings... Is that right?

    You're just confused because you don't know what skillcap is. And I believe what they're more saying must be "gear capped".

    If they're saying skillcapped and talk about gear differences, they don't know either what skillcap is.
     
  13. Sizer

    Sizer Kilgannon Maehwa 62 NA

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    thats just your opinion.
    and it's ****.

    here what is BDO and what it is not.

    BDO is , a time sinking MMO with some pvp in it.

    BDO isn't , a leet competitive pvp game.

    debate is over .
    bye felicia.
     
    #93 Sizer, Jun 7, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
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  14. Asato

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    Go read my last 2 replies about you.

    It doesn't concern you how I respond ignorant people with ignorant answers. Why ignorant? Because they start assuming things. And they're the ones who cannot go in depth. Why should I bother with them?
    I'm already wasting a lot of times with. After all, you're as ignorant as they are (see what I did here? I assumed your were ignorant when you were the only giving long replies... which would suggest that you're aren't this much ignorant, no?)


    Anyway, you're just here to "win" an argument. You even stopped looking at my replies. You just grasp the little things that aren't revelant, like my answer to another. And even then, you don't take a larger look at those "little things".

    Should I say "I rest my case" to give myself ... hmm a "win" I guess?. You're a potato xD anyway you had me laughing, thanks. Laughing at how mad you got and how pathetic you are.
     
  15. Luvinne

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    I like how some people are saying, "this game isn't for you", "quit troll", "you suck at this game"

    And then minutes later, another post that says "is black desert online dead?"

    You guys are getting exactly what you are asking for, a dead game.
     
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  16. Sizer

    Sizer Kilgannon Maehwa 62 NA

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    TLDR
    2- publish a ****** complain book.

    here what is BDO and what it is not.

    BDO is , a time sinking MMO with some pvp in it.

    BDO isn't , a leet competitive pvp game.

    debate is over .
    bye felicia.
     
  17. Asato

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    Debate over? Really ? this fast? :(

    Wait... was it ever open to you? I don't think so.

    Next time, don't even waste your time if you come to forums to post such things. We're talking about how they should reduce gearcap or not. If you have this level of argument... You're saving both you and others some time. Thanks cya.
     
  18. Asato

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    which one? :)

    Edit : I misread. I thought the one who said those created such post. Mb
     
  19. Sizer

    Sizer Kilgannon Maehwa 62 NA

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    level of entitlement 10/10
    I bet your parents loves you.

    and TBH gearcap is perfectly fine, you need to adapt and stop crying, if it's so carebear and easy why don't you do it,
    why don't you go play an actual PvP game instead of wasting your time in this 90 % PVE / 10 % PVP time sinking MMO.
    you're trying to convince yourself that BDO is an actual pvp game which is clearly isn't, you are 100 % delusional.

    but hey have fun .

    joined 30 may, probably a troll account.
    should play a pvp game instead of pvping on the forum of a pve mmo.
    perhaps you ain't the '' leet skilled pvper '' you claim to be.
     
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  20. Nyhver

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    I'll have to disappoint you. I'm not mad at you, I'm not upset, I'm not even frustrated, I'm just really disappointed that people like you think they have anything worthy to say, or some knowledge at all, because the problem with you isn't that you know so much, it's that you know so much that isn't so.

    I read your garbled replies including the ones just now where you double posted at me essentially saying the same thing for whatever reason, your actions lend itself to emotion more than mine. Either way.

    I never called you some tri-lord peasant, but you say multiple times I did.

    For some reason you don't understand what skill cap is or how gear relates to it, I rest my case, not much more needs to be said.

    However, I would like to point out that you call me a clicker on WoW which is funny. Would you believe me if I told you I was one of the kings in that game in a certain version of it? One of the best to have ever played and that may remain true even when Blizzard releases classic servers again.

    On this game I've dueled with and watched a lot of the best and really great PvPers. I know what it looks like. Again- I know my own class very well and can execute it many things with it well.

    The reason the clicking thing resonates with me like so many of your far fetched and hazy points is you have an inability to properly understand skill or what it is, you pull one thing and the thread shows itself through many things. I am not a clicker, but if there is a certain limit with tab targeting, (and there is in WoW, and is in other games) then there can easily be an overwhelming amount of people to 'make tab targeting difficult or slow and imprecise' suppose there's many close targets next to you, just one example... depending on their proximity and how close they are or blocking each other, the one you want to target can very easily and more efficiently 'clicked' instead of 'tabbed through many times'.

    You don't consider moving the mouse a skill, people not wanting to bother with you is probably because they gave up, might as well add tab targeting to shooters since mosue movement isn't a skill, might a well remove hands and brushes from painters, too, and clearly any form of shooting, darts or guns or bows or crossbows is unskillful because it's 'just moving your hands and i don't consider that difficult'

    Now, it's other things too but are you going to bog yourself down with that or stop being a chuckle clown and address the argument?
     
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