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This is why you need reduce geargap

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Zendeo, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Asato

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    Level of arguments 5/7.
    Level of originality 0//10.
    And I guess your parents love you too? Huh? Not sure what I'm supposed to say to such nice things!

    So your whole argument is why don't you go play an actual PvP game? xD like many others here "don't like it quit" "there's a better game? go play it"
    Yes. I will go back to play GW2 when I've had my fun on BDO. Don't you worry about that.

    And btw, I've never claimed to consider BDO a PvP game. If anything I've always it was mostly a PvE game. Thanks to the grinding and the gear gap, it was easy to come to that conclusion.

    But there are others, vets like you, you went there even saying "BDO is the most skillful PvP game". And many many seem to think the end-game is PvP oriented. Don't you agree with them? What's your end-game content ? Gambling to get PEN? Playing farming, trading, fishing, simulators?

    Yeah sorry about my account. I've bought BDO on Steam. And I needed to create an account and send ticked to support, thus linking my steam account with BDO. If you want precise infos, I think I started playing around 8 May 2018. I've already had a lv56 DK from last year, when I played like a week and half before quitting, because it didn't interest me enough. It just seemed like a F2P game... And this May... well I wanted to play some new games, I've had enough of R6S so I put it on pause. And well I had BDO already bought and I had pet already, so I thought maybe give it an another try? Maybe the game has potentials, maybe I didn't try it harder?

    To hell, with your argument "so carebear and easy why don't you do it". I can do it and I might well, I will dispose enough time in summer. I just don't think the game has many flaws and might be going to the wrong directions with renown scores and such (It's never good for a game to just give more and more powers to balance classes. In the end it becomes "the first to OS wins") Anyway. I'm not convinced yet that's good time investment.
    The game has already a very malicious enchanting system, addicting and nefast as it can be just like a casino. And then they apparently nerfed the scrolls? Which means they're making people more dependant on Artisans... Anyway, if they go in the direction that makes players more and more gear dependant for PvP. This can only be bad for the players health. They would be kinda forced to get the best gear fastest and prolly making them spend more money.

    Anyway, I'm not into this kind of developpers or politic behind a game, which is to milk as much money as possible.



    Oh.. how so? Care you explain your deduction? :)
     
    #101 Asato, Jun 7, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  2. Asato

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    I can exactly say the same thing to you. You think you know every truth. Like "BDO is the most skillful game" etc. And you didn't even try to understand my arguments. You're so stubborn about your stupid "truths". I just demonstrated how stupid and false they were.

    You can't just go and take an opinion and think it's the truth. Well... you can do that, but just don't go forums and start claiming those as "truth". You're not even capable of know what an opinion is and how subjective some things are.

    So you're not even capable of reading your own quote?
    I say you did because you did say. Proof? Go read your own post.

    For some reason you're not capable of understanding what a skillcap is and what is skill of a player, or even what is "skillful".
    I exactly explained everything you need to understand them. If you can't read. Well it's shameful.
    If you have anything to say about the definition of skillcap. You have to first read mine to be in disagreement right? Just do it. And tell me which part is wrong.

    Now watch who's being pretentious ! And yes, I would very much doubt that.


    Okay cool. So what are you trying to say?
    That you've reached the skillcap? What's your class? I believe it was DK? Do you think DK has a high skillcap? If yes, why? If not, why?
    Tell me the story of your life !

    But again, you know what it looks like? But what exactly looks like what? I'm not sure what I'm supposed to understand. I cannot read you mind. But I can read your posts and I'm certainly doing more effort you understand you but you're just being obnoxious, stubborn and pretentious.

    I've told you that we're agreeing on that skillcap definition, did you read it?
    I don't even understand why we're having arguments to begin with. It's ****ing off-topic.

    Because of the tab-targetting and free aim? I told you exactly why I thought that. But I'm not going there and claiming things.

    And omfg, your comparison with LOL.... just LMAO... I'm sorry, you're telling me that the best WOW player cannot even see the differences between two genres? Thus make a conclusion that the other one is a joke? That's your opinion. Keep it for yourself. I usually don't support league but... wow man you have just gone too far in the direction of stupidity.



    Are you capable of understanding what skill is or not?
    Okay maybe you should learn ways to demonstrate them. Instead of just claiming things. Or taking 1hp, 1dmg thing that you didn't even utilize. What was your point? I even asked you more details. You didn't care or were incapable of answering.

    I'm sorry what? Why would people try to make tab targetting difficult or slow and imprecise?
    And I get what you're trying to say with your example. But that's an example from PoV of you thinking there's only "close or next target" options... You want to know how we did to be precise and quick in fight? We would do callouts. Usually the team leaders marks (you can do it if you're solo too) the targets with specific numbers or signs. And those numbers or sign would be keybinded. And when you click on that, you have in target the one you want who's been marked. It even exists in GW2, but much more simpler (not same PvP modes).
    So no... I didn't do "tab-tab-tab-tab" until I get the right target. That's a very limited PoV to think that.

    And to me... if you're aiming like you said with the mouse like in BDO. Well you cannot be in constant movement if you're trying to look behind you or aim (like musa/maehwa's RMB, with them you can). The camera is locked to your char's aim. You would be constained to "take a pause" to aim behind and then you have to go back where you were aiming and going, but by doing that you stopped. See? Now that looks not very efficient. Maybe it doesnt matter in BDO. But anyway.

    Sorry if I assumed you were a mouse clicker. I will not do that again. Nor do I think it's bad. It's your preference.

    So what I'm saying is : it's stupid to think that a game is easier because of tab-targetting. It's an stupid argument. Like I said, the targetting/aiming mode of a game is proper to the game and most likely the most adapted one to it mechanics.

    Now, were you capable of understanding that? It seems like not.

    If you're a firm believer that "free-aim" takes more skill than tab-targetting, I already demonstrated how I think it's false.

    Yeah I consider it doesn't take this much of a skill to be claiming "tab targetting is easy and sucks and makes the game easier" around wherever you go.
    It sure does take some skill. But again this is considered to be a basic requirement for me, as much as you should be able to easily tab target if you're a said PvP player. If you're considering you're a skilled player just because you can aim in a MMO? Well... that's pretty ****ed up imho.

    You might as well go play FPS games then. (Sorry to use your argument; it's yours to say go play other game) Because you're talking about shooters and adding tab-targetting to them. This just pretty much confirms how inconsistent you can be. You just don't do any differences between genres.

    It takes some skill, but not that much and pretty basic. Probably not enough to be a "good" FPS player.


    Yeah prolly. If you started by taking better examples and not comparing different genres. That would be a big step to address them.
    Maybe stop assuming things.

    Okay maybe I'm asking too much. Or it could be that you're just too smart beyond my understanding and you're perfectly telling some universal facts !
     
  3. Leionhearth

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    Okay. Name me BDO's Endgame Content. Except gear progression. pretty please. "hint" there are 2 answers here.
     
  4. ForeverFriends

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    PvP

    Difficulty Level Expectation

    Easy Mode = Opponent Lower Gear
    Normal Mode = Equal Gear
    Hard Mode = Opponent Out Gear
    Insane Mode = Opponent Has Multiple Pens

    I believe they should add the Renown or GS icon/titles in the beside the name so we will now what difficulty level are they at?

    Unmatched Gear
    [​IMG]

    Same Gear
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Asato

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    Haha nice idea ! There should be some indications about the GS of someone... Like the renown titles... It exists for some reason right?

    And the fact that the game doesn't want you to inspect a player's gear or to see his level etc... It just simply shows that the dev's are supporting the kind of mentality that favors "gear dependancy" "gank of low geared/ lower players".
    I mean... the fact that some people come easily to the conclusion as such "He easily killed me. He must be highly geared" is because of this stupid system.

    This system would mean something if there wasn't a gear dependance...

    Anyway... I loved that you took Sumos as exemples ahaah !
     
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  6. Nyhver

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    Tab target recent pvp changes shooter moba mmorpg fighter game

    Concept of difficulty due to skill mastery vs. limitation

    Tab targeting tends to be a clunky limitation, just like having a 1 hp chat that can't do anything is 'difficult' it's not the same as difficult due to being hard to master. Is that spelled out enough for you?

    You are using a weak argument of "there's no equvialent between x and y because i said so and they're technically different things"

    weak argument

    As far as DK skill goes at really high level they don't have much afaik but they can still be impressive due to how much skill goes into the very intricate timing on bdo, and they do have some tricks and movement they need to do like the ones where they go invisible, worse DKs utilize this ability worse, better ones utilize it more. I do not main or play DK.

    Here's incorrect and fatuous your argument is

    Proposition & Argument: Rock paper and scissors doesn't take much skill compared to a lot of other things and especially mechanically intensive complex games like Tekken 7

    Response using your logic: You can't compare them, they're different genres, don't tell me the best tekken 7 player doesn't realize they're different genres so they're incomparable? omega teh luls

    But anyways, as I say and you haven't properly responded to it- if league of legends had every character roughly the same as BDO's ninja vs. ninja, then league of legends would take a hell of a lot more skill, but it doesn't, they're simple champions with few buttons with few impressive things to do as far as skill goes. This point is lost on you. MOBAs are a joke as far as skill goes.

    For anyone who cares, or you if you want, please direct me to where I say what you think I said, going off memory after I looked at it, I once again looked this time for when I called you a tri lord noob this time using ctrl+f and you're the only one who is mentioning "tri" and you are using put out the fire debating tactics where you throw out 50 thousand bogus claims a minute and say "oh, see he didn't respond properly to tell all he must be wrong" in the exchange you say something and then say "so you must be saying noobs are tri right???" this is wrong on many levels, I never said it, I never agreed to it and I wouldn't normally call someone that is full tri noob unless I was jesting, as I've said in this thread- I believe- my gear has never been tet or pen but even if I never said that, my stance is perfectly undergirded by the fact that gear is irrelevant to skill cap, I've said to you that someone can be playing at the skill cap at 0 GS or 900 it doesn't matter and for some reason you think the exact quote you gave me verbatim means gear because you conflate number potential of damage to mechanical and practical skill potential.

    Let me know what you think of this guy, he's one of the best rogues to have ever played vanilla.



    You don't know vanilla well, and even 'pvp vets' might have a really hard time dissecting all the skill going into that, so a lot of it would probably go over your head. Still, let me know what you think of it.
     
  7. Sizer

    Sizer Kilgannon Maehwa 62 NA

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    your whole argument is
    '' I don't like how the pvp system is in this game, so instead of looking for a game that suits me , I'm gonna spend all day on the forum of the game I don't like , crying how I could make a much better 100 % super elite equalized arena PVP so I can play once every 3-4months and compettteeeee hurdurrrr ''.

    - pick a damm arena game with equalized pvp / ranking and with skill based combat ?!
    - NHAAA too easy , let's screw everyone who thinks BDO is fine , complain enough so they change how the game plays, so I can feel good when I play for 2 weeks and leave.

    which is exactly how ex-wow casuals, 2018 gamers, thinks.

    Perhaps the game's pvp is exactly how it is because the devs simply intended that way and not to suit the taste of casuals who plays , like you ,a game for a month, quits, come back 6months later then play for another month and only complains in the meantime , but that's just me.

    that whole '' BDO pvp should be equalized '' B.S. topic is getting old.
    if devs wanted to make pvp equalized, guess what, they would've in the 2.5years it's been up.
    and a ton of people wouln'd play it

    BDO isn't a PvP game, it wasn't advertised as such.

    have a good day.
     
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  8. Asato

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    I'd really like some more explainations on that 1HP 1AP, 1DP, CAN'T MOVE Thing, before I read further. You literally just said "there was 2 BDO chacters" that we remove evething, make them not able to move, 1HP etc.. And you didn't fricking say what we were supposed to do with them? If this was part of your explanation. I don't get it.

    It's like saying "There are 2 training dummies". And that's it. You said nothing more.
     
  9. Sizer

    Sizer Kilgannon Maehwa 62 NA

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    the end-game content in BDO is all of the content. from start, you're in the end-game.
    stop thinking like your WoW themepark clones.

    you can siege at level 1 with 0 GS if you want.
    you ain't locked out of anything.
     
  10. Asato

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    Nice explanation ! :D
     
  11. Arzurag

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    Why do such threads always end in personal attacks ?
     
  12. Nyhver

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    that's...the...point....

    what are you going to do with a 1 hp char that has 0 moves and does 0 things?

    nothing

    ergo

    vis-a-vis

    stop thinking garen in league of legends or most champions in league for that matter are difficult or impressive they aren't they suck and they're simple and limited

    by

    design

    This is a popular concept of some people, confusing difficulty of limitation and lack of skill with difficulty of skill mastery

    it's not the same thing

    This might be the fourth time I've said it
     
  13. Asato

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    Forget that 1hp, I doubt any body understood what you were trying to say.
    Nope. It isn't spelled out good enough for me. Maybe someone who understands you could explain it to me better.

    And all you're saying is ... it's not difficult because it has limitations? Wouldnt the difficulty be to overcome the limitations?
    Anyway, you're better off to go propose a new definition of the meaning of "difficult" at https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/difficult or https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/difficulty . Maybe add category "meaning in gaming"


    There's no equivalent between x and y? You mean "relation" ? Or maybe you should explain your definition of "equivalent" https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/equivalent

    I said in my opinion. For me. My opinion.
    Contrary to you and all the others saying "free aim" is difficult as in like a universal truth. You know what? I don't think it's the case. It's much more easier to play with "free-aim" than tab targetting. As there's lesser limitations and more possibilities. There's no constraints. Nothing makes it difficult except maybe your lack of ability to move your mouse.

    And your argument is what? So weak that we don't even understand what you're trying to say. I made some inhuman efforts to understand you and overcome your lack of expressing ability.




    Lulz, are you really comparing Rock Paper and Scissors with Tekken 7?
    LMAO. That's the level of your arguing ability.

    Anyway, so we're now into Fighting games right? Let me guess, you think they don't require much skill as the "free aiming" of BDO.
    And if the best tekken 7 player was to say such things and starting to compare Tekken 7... well I would say he's damn stupid. That's it.

    I didn't think it was worthy of an answer as the comparison so stupid and as you didn't properly respond to most of my revelant arguments. It's like you didn't even read most my posts. And you think you deserve to be considered when your argument is comparing MOBA to an MMORPG?

    Does that really need an explanation?

    League of legends difficulty and complexity comes from the fact that's an unforgiving (mostly) and snowbally game where you have to understand a lot of things. Your knowledge of the game and as well as your ability to "predict enemy team champions", "which champion to play", to be "fast and precise with your movements" "where to gank" "which objective to take" etc. Imagine like a Q-Q on a minion to gap close, Ward-W, and R-Flash on Lee-Sin. You can train these on dummies and be able to execute them. But it's much more to do in a real fight or gank. Not everyone can do easily. Even in the worlds you can see fails. That's just an example of a champ, and there are 141 champs. Anyway it's an strategic team game kind of.

    Your argument is like saying a chess isn't a difficult game because each piece doesn't have more than one move.

    So you cannot go compare the possilibities of a class of an MMORPG with the one of an MOBA.



    Okay this is my bad. I completely misread. With all the other "vets" calling those tri players noobs asking for ease. I thought you were of the same kind. My bad, really sorry. It was infact a wrongful accusation.

    Althought, don't get me wrong. I've never said such things as knowing what the skillcap of my class is. And I might have some difficulties to understand completely what you're claiming here. Anyway I dont see why you have to mention my gear. And it seems like yourself you're full TRI if you've never gotten any TET or PEN?
    Skill capped PvP is or was sitting in block forever? Concerning what? BDO?
    If skill capped PvP that you're mentioning is if the game's PvP is based on skill. Yes I don't think it is. As Gear has an important impact.
    And I have to mentiont again that you said "How well could you know PvP when you haven't done any high level PvP or seen it?

    I have never claimed to have reached the skillcap on my characters. Maybe you thought I was claiming BDO doesn't require skill to play in PvP?
    I wasn't. All I did claim was that they should close the gear gap so "more" skilled players would stand more chances to win if he is indeed skilled.

    A game that Favors skill-based PvPs make it so that the gear becomes a small if not very small or inexistent factor that would determine the winner, so the more skilled player wins by pure skillz to put it simpler.

    I'm not claiming PvP in BDO doesn't require skills. I'm only saying that BDO doesn't seem to favor a skill-based PvP based on the fact that they give much more importance to gears and even more with the Renown system.




    I'm not sure about what aspect I'm supposed to give my opinion. The fact that the rogue is dying a lot eventhough he's one of the best rogues? :)
    Is it you by anychance? :o
    Or the fact that he's often or in range of doing his spells? And that there's messages like "not in range" etc? Well melee classes have ranges... he has to be in range. If he's not capable to do so, or if the games doesn't allow him. It means that the game has flaws that needs to be fixed. By either giving him more range or not being "clumsy". It isn't the tab targetting fault...

    Anyway tell me about this one, it's from Aion : (One week after the release of 3.0 I had to quit)

    From 4min50 I think they start doing shoutouts to focus etc. Anyway that's the tab targetting what I'm talking about. Most classes have to run and kite. As I've played Ranger, I'm constantly on the move in a fight.
     
  14. Asato

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    So... if it's nothing. Why would you create them? Is this kind a standart kind of arguing in your country?
    You're supposed to give an argument and demonstrate it with examples.

    Things you're not doing.

    You could make them mobile and give them an ability that could dodge and another that can defend an incoming attack and the last one being "attack" ; The first one to touch the other wins?... I thought you were going to follow up with something like that.
    It could still be skill demanding. The timing with your dodge / block, an counter attack , predict the other players movements etc.

    You're thinking "more buttons to smash" = "skill" ? Is that what you're trying to say with your league of legends example?

    Okay... so what are we talking about here? You're the one who brought up DOTA's.
    You're talking about the skillcap of the champion? Vs difficulty of the game?
    Yes Garen's skillcap is low even if he's played in plat+ leagues. Is he difficult? No. Did I say he was difficult? No.
    But if you take Lee Sin for example, his skillcap is pretty high and he's even more played. Is he difficult compared to Garen? Yes. Is he difficult compared to ninja from BDO? I don't know but if your point of comparison is "more clickable skills available" then yes.
    The fact that you would consider even comparing them... is just beyond me.

    It's like asking "is Chess" more difficult than BDO? And giving an answer such as "Yes because each piece can only have one type of move".

    Confusing difficulty of limitation and lack of skill with difficulty of skill mastery ?

    -So define difficulty of limitation? I don't get it. It might as well be a concept you just invented.
    It's not difficult because it has no limitations? Wouldn't it be easier if it had no limitations?

    -Lack of skill ? So the more a game has skills, the more difficult it is? Then Aion or WoW is far more difficult than BDO as in BDO most of then you don't use. (I'm doing simplifications like you)

    -Difficulty of limitation and lack of skill.... I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to understand. Difficulty of limitation means that it's hard to put a limit or that it's difficult because of limitations?


    -Difficulty of skill mastery? The difficulty would be the limited by whatever the limits you put as a possibility to master a class?

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/difficulty
     
  15. Asato

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    People are butthurt in forums. And that's where people are the most stubborn.
     
  16. Asato

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    If all you can understand is :
    '' I don't like how the pvp system is in this game, so instead of looking for a game that suits me , I'm gonna spend all day on the forum of the game I don't like , crying how I could make a much better 100 % super elite equalized arena PVP so I can play once every 3-4months and compettteeeee hurdurrrr ''.

    Then there's nothing much more to discuss. I honestly think you're not capable of understanding more than that. Damn, I'm giving you so much credits.

    "pick a damm arena game with equalized pvp / ranking and with skill based combat ?!
    - NHAAA too easy , let's screw everyone who thinks BDO is fine , complain enough so they change how the game plays, so I can feel good when I play for 2 weeks and leave."


    Prove that you don't read or understand what you're reading.

    I've already said I will do so. Don't you worry. I'm repeating it again.
    And no, I don't play BDO every 6 months. The first time was last summer. In may or june.

    And why would you think that you would be screwed? Care to give more explanation ?
    Because you're afraid that the new players would be able to defeat you? Would that mean that your progression and time spent ingame gonna mean nothing?
    I don't see how you would be screwed if there was more players to play the game.

    "that whole '' BDO pvp should be equalized '' B.S. topic is getting old.
    if devs wanted to make pvp equalized, guess what, they would've in the 2.5years it's been up.
    and a ton of people wouln'd play it"

    Yeah exactly. You're getting the point now. And do you know the reasons behind that ? Because they want to make you more gear dependant and make the gear enhancing (thus progression) so much dependant on RNG. It's like a casino. The intentions behind "PvP gear dependant" are malicious. They're not to provide a healthy environment for the players.
    Can you just tell me how many € you spent in the game? And how many do you think those who become addicted spend in average?


    BDO isn't a PvP game, it wasn't advertised as such.

    Hell, it wasn't even an well advertised game. If he had success at release, I would have heard of it. From all what I heard people didn't like it much. It's only like 2 years later, when I saw the game on steam I thought "Oh right... That game existed and released, I might try and find out what's like by myself". That's 3 years later. First it was on russian servers.

    So if there's no PvP as end game content... Well can you tell me what is the end game content?
    It seems people people are thinking BDO is the most skillful PvP game in history of MMO.
     
  17. 2Cents

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    Good point, you need to choose an OP class also.

    I'm sure that's what you where getting at.
     
  18. Krakh

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    i have to stop you right there about the wow thing, in World of Warcraft where everyone got the same stats in arenas you would think it would be balanced, but it's not (the artifact traits is a big issue aswell, thank F' it will be removed in BFA by the looks of everything), it's still very unbalanced due some classes simply destroy other classes to the point that you just have to look on the classes you have in your team and the enemies team before the match start to see which team will win, and you're 99% right of the time

    you also see alot of 2200+ players only teaming with other 2200+ players on their alts with 0 rating, for example 2152 & his gladiator friend with 0 rating which cause you to not face another team with the same rating

    wow is a very bad example

    as for the topic, i've seen alot of people not supporting the recent changes in bdo, but what system would be better and will the devs listen?
     
  19. DheReaper

    DheReaper Ranger 62 EU

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    Oy guys don't forget that WOW is p2w, BDO isn't .

    Don't forget that in BDO u can block anytime or dodge attacks anytime in WOW you cannot.

    Don't forget that wow is p2w subscription based BDO isn't.

    Ohhh yeah don't forget that everyone could join bdo on lauch.

    Don't forget that bdo isn't an arena game, it only makes players who put theyr time in gear and learning pvp win the most fights.
     
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  20. LightningFFXIII-4

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    BDO is broken beyond repair lol. The only way to fix BDO right now is to:
    1.) Remove payouts and replace it with a guild buff.
    2.) Introduce 20 new Enhancement Levels.
    3.) Everyone's gear is automatically adjusted to PEN enhancement.
    4.) Existing Silver is now useless, new Currency is now Gold.
    5.) Reduce Skillpoint requirements for skills by a lot.
    6.) Reduce EXP requirements for leveling up to lvl 61 by a lot.
     

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