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Thoughts on new PvP damage for Tamer?

Discussion in 'Tamer' started by Karma555, Jul 3, 2020.

  1. Karma555

    Karma555 Tamer 63 NA

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    After testing it out for a few days, I'm not a fan. It takes a lot more work to kill people now. I have to weave in a lot more filler skills. But conversely, they have a very easy time one/two-shotting us.

    Is this really balance?
     
  2. Monkey D.

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    Bad skill kit, bad protections, lack of mobility, a large amount of sp needed for have the needed skills.

    For Pearl Abyss is just numbers change, but they dont take in mind the rest when they done it. We are 2nd class which more dmg receive and we basically make less dmg to everyone. Incoming bsr nerf so we wont be reliable in large-scale anymore.

    Just to be clear how stupid these changes are, they nerfed horror slam which prove they don't have any knowledge about the game they are developing
     
  3. LeMiau

    LeMiau Tamer 63 NA

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    It already was a hustle to get your damage out as a Tamer; for every 5~6 skills I weaved my Kuno could do the same damage in about two or three.

    "To do this we focus on creating more ways in which we can tweak classes to get them closer and closer in line with each other, we still want classes to have identities and moments where they shine but we don't always want X class to be the only viable option. We attempt to do this by creating what I like to call "valves" on skills and abilities that can be refined to balance the class as a whole."
    Was the canned response a lot of us got from support on the matter; meanwhile witch/wiz and zerker q roam free;
    tamer was never a meta class, and a high skill floor to play decently as well, now we join the dks and valks on being benched.

    /verysaltyqq
     
    Karma555 likes this.
  4. Lenerlink

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    ...As a succ tamer (dont hit me) I was doing very well before this update....now all those moves i had to tank and block because my lack of i-frames melt me like butter...to the point that i was going to have +9 armor in 2 weeks...but I dont even feel like PvPing anymore...
     
  5. Karma555

    Karma555 Tamer 63 NA

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    Yep. I was surprised pikachu when a skill one-shots my block gauge, chunks 20% of my HP, and CC's me. FG might as well not exist for Tamer.
     
  6. lanzend

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    Just to be clear on exactly what the nerf is: While our damage was decreased overall when applied to most classes. Certain skills were increased to compensate for this. This compensation only covered specific skills, some skills receiving a 30% damage increase, others 15% and some succession skills 12% increase. This can be seen here:

    chrome_oT9fUj6FmU.png

    The 30% skills were for the most part, less important, non-core damage skills and/or were unprotected. The damage increase on them was deserved as the damage was meh for the most part. However, 30% of meh is still meh and after the baseline decrease of course it's not 30% anymore.

    The 15% increase skills were for the most part, not used often in PvP, BUT does include 3 key vital skills: Absolute Bolt, Absolute Jolt (both unprotected) and Allround Spinner (Protected, FG). The 15% doesn't change much since the baseline damage was reduced pretty close to that for most classes.

    However, what got missed was everything that DID NOT get any increase at all. The biggest one that comes to mind is Resonance, our most useful Rabam. It's some of the only protected damage we have and the damage while decent, was never that great on NA as a 0 crit, 0 accuracy skill (we got the post-KR-nerf version back in 2017). Some other abilities are: Our grapple (most of our combos start with this), Flash/Pole/Stance (used in many combos especially following Rabam Legendary Beast Claw, both nerfed without increase to compensate) and Fearful Trembling. There are going to be others depending on the player as play-styles and combos vary Tamer to Tamer. The above mentioned affect my combos/play-style the most.

    Looking at the above chart in full including all classes, seen here: https://i.redd.it/hxvccbu5qa451.png , Tamer damage increased LESS vs. most classes than damage taken from those classes were increased (we have changed to being more squishy to other classes than they have changed to being squishy to us).

    For example:

    Tamer(awk) > Warrior +10.46% (7 30% skills @ 17.7% increase each and 8 15% skills @ 4.12% each = 156.86/15 for average increase)
    Warrior (awk) > Tamer +23.28%

    Tamer (suc) > Warrior +1.4%
    Warrior (suc) > Tamer +12.08%

    Tamer (base, all other skills) > Warrior -9.46%
    Warrior (base, all other skills) > Tamer +12.08%

    And going down the list you will find that for majority of the classes (not all or most) we are made squishier than our damage was increased against those classes. Thus on average this patch is a nerf to Tamer overall. A class that is struggling to hold relevance in anything outside 1v1s in BA and even there, while opinions vary, barely makes top 5 depending on who you ask. While the top 3 1v1 classes (Sorc, Ninja, Kuno) are most definitely better in group fights than Tamer, and with our beast-master most certainly at the very bottom of the tier list in group fights, the larger the fight, the less impact she has.

    And lastly I'll mention in closing, her biggest issues for group fights are RNG "iframes" (see tool-tip for WW "Evasion" skill), lack of reliable disengage (see how buggy Cloud Stomping/Cloud Ride are in a real fight) and lack of protected damage.
     
    #6 lanzend, Jul 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
    Ubbles and Karma555 like this.
  7. RandomHajile

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    sold my tamer kutum before this happened. Time to gather on tamer.
     
  8. Mr Deap

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    What I would like to see a change is blocking mechanic. You can hardly block anything(346DP). There's so many ranged attacks that come at once, that the blocking shield dissipate in less than 0.1sec. Even super armor run out so quick that you can't do any damage to your opponents.

    I believe it's a problem across all classes.
     
  9. Ned Sheynji

    Ned Sheynji Sheynji 62 EU

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    Are there even any tamers left that could test it?
     
  10. Alrikmerc

    Alrikmerc Grimmdhal Tamer 63 NA

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    We've been testing, yeah.

    Your block vanishes instantly and main damage skills from ranged classes evaporate tamers.

    Damage is difficult to do quickly even against traditionally squishy targets. It feels like a bad joke.

    I'm not quitting or rolling off, came too far to be bothered at this point. Though i won't stop bringing up the issues. Even before this tamer had huge weaknesses, adding this on top is just a slap in the face.
     
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  11. Karma555

    Karma555 Tamer 63 NA

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    Our damage means nothing if we don't live long enough to use it. I've been melted by so many classes before I finish gap-closing the distance on them. Forward Guard lasts about 1/4 of a second, and super armor is pointless if you're just gonna blow up anyway.
     
  12. Alrikmerc

    Alrikmerc Grimmdhal Tamer 63 NA

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    and then there's the fact that everyone is getting 600 more HP from the journal soon.

    with our defense vs other classes, it won't mean a thing. we likely won't even notice.

    and since our offense vs other classes has been reduced pretty much vs everyone, and our ult is being nerfed, that 600 HP will make it that much harder to kill anyone. good times, right?
     
  13. Karma555

    Karma555 Tamer 63 NA

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    I refuse to reroll, so quitting BDO might be the only option. At least until Tamer gets returned to a viable state.
     
  14. Nubek

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    What a ****ibg joke to nerf barely played by anyone class.
     
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  15. Sentionauts

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    Without being viable in some way in large scale the class has no endgame. There's a reason you hardly ever see tamers when grinding high end spots or at RBF or battle arena or in node wars, and it's only worse now. The class has no end game. So what's the point of continuing to play?
     
  16. makis

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    It's still the best duelist class
     
  17. lanzend

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    1. Sorc 2/3 Ninja/Kuno (debatable which is better) 4/5 Tamer/Lahn (debatable which is better). 4 or 5 is a bit of a stretch from best.
     
  18. PeaceInChaos

    PeaceInChaos Sorceress 63 NA

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    My prayers are with you, my Heilang-riding friends. I suspect fixes / buffs to be added to Tamer soon, considering that Valk and DK are good now, least their Succ versions from what I hear.
     
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  19. peanut777

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    Sorc, Wiz, Ninja, = Win
     
  20. Mamiko

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    Full PEN =win
     

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