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Training lackluster compared to fishing

Discussion in 'Horse Training' started by Saggy, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. Saggy

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    I would really like to see some love for training besides those silly events that just flood the horse market. Horse training is inherently more annoying and less rewarding than fishing. You can't get event items while you afk train like fishing can and you can fish in any body of water where as you need to carefully select your training auto paths to make sure you're in town and not near and npc and don't get stuck on a fence. Not to mention lag is inherently worse for us. Training in town is also slower because of the npc collision slowing you down.
     
  2. BraveHeart

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    The whole horse training/breeding could use an overhaul tbh. Also the horses itself does not make much sense. For example, the horse speed is mostly fake and does nothing untill it reaches a defined point. A horse with 140.1 speed is just as fast as a horse that has 149.9 speed. Thats just bad/lazy game design imo when actual percentages does nothing.

    Also gaining training XP is based on horse levels instead of distance driven which feels unfair compared to other life skilling. As it currently is you can better train low tier horses till level 10 instead of training high tier horses to level 30.... if you want to have a high mastery fast.

    There is a ton of other stuff that could be improved and changed.
     
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  3. Saggy

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    this is absolutely right.
     
  4. Kubla

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    I will have to test that out, I thought lower tiers give you training points per level faster since they level faster but higher tiers give you more points per level to even it out?

    Meaning you level 3 tier 1's from 1 to 10 gets you about the same training exp as leveling a tier 5 from 1 to 30 and takes approximately the same time.
     
  5. Saggy

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    its a broken and terrible system
     
  6. Snakebyte

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    The higher tiers do get more per level, but the fastest way to get Mastery whilst riding is to level a horse as often as you can. You will level a Tier 5 horse to 10 much faster than a Tier 6, so will get more Training per minute/hour.

    I did a long test and only levelling horses to level 3 gets you much more Training exp per minute than levelling them to 10. It is a stupid mechanic that actually penalises you for training high level horses.

    I levelled a range of horses and then worked out the 'Training Exp per 10,000 Mount Exp' for Tiers 1 to 6 and Levels 1 to 15. At Artisan 3, a Tier 1 horse effectively gives 0.73% Training Exp per 10,000 Mount Exp going from Level 1 to Level 2, whereas a Tier 3 horse gives 0.13% per 10,000 Exp going from Level 11 to Level 12. The Tier 1 effectively gives 600% more Training Exp per minute in this example and it just gets worse the higher you level.

    Note that you don't get much from a Tier 1 horse and it is slower, so you will get the less Mount Exp per minute, but it is still quicker to raise Training by levelling multiple low tier horses than a single high tier one in the same time period.

    Other Training rants I have, apart from the issue above:

    Why do I get no Training Exp for Breeding?
    Why do I get no Training Exp for levelling Mount Skills?
    Why do I only get Training Exp when a horse levels, so I can ride a Level 30 for the rest of my life and never improve!

    I only started Training fully 2 weeks ago and if I wasn't stubborn I would have given up and done something else. As it is, I just want to get Master 1 and then stop. Note that I'm not capturing, I'm buying all the low Tier level 1 horses I can find, riding them to 15, breeding them and then doing the same with the foals. Hell, I was buying the gift/token T5 horses that start with Sprint and I.Accel for 8M and manually levelling them for 3 hours at a time with a Celerity potion!
     
    #6 Snakebyte, May 26, 2020
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
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  7. Bumggez

    Bumggez Sorceress 61 EU

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    Well, from my experience AFK training can yield decent profits (40-50m/night through imperial). Plus, training can be performed afk for more than 24h which is the time horizon for fish to rot. However, where the two life skills diverge is in mastery and active gameplay.
    • As far as I'm concerned, mastery in training is seeked only for breeding as Fine Trainer's/Silver Clothes exceed the % horse exp the manos trainers clothes give. The increase in % for breeding is probably not even worth the investment for most people (a TET manos training clothes might increase a 3-4% higher tier horse from breeding, that is for every 100 horses bread, 3-4 will be t(N+1) instead of tN for a 2+bil investment). This is somewhat dissapointing tbh. Imo, mastery should extend to other areas of training such as:
      • Skill training (active gameplay as fishing also provides, which in fishing is also coupled with a significant increase in income),
      • Skill chances*. Including skill chance to mastery would make the life skill less p2w (as fishing also became less p2w when they added the minimum fish grade you wish to keep, which opens the possibility for a not-that-high-inventory-space fishing alt). Moreover, the chances of a natural t8 courser are abysmal and this change would also help with the less p2w aspect. Furthermore, it would make for a more complete decision making:
        • Fine/Silver clothers + wagon for lower tier horses
        • Manos clothes and riding crop for higher tier (t7,t8,t9) horses.
      • Access to additional quests (like Alchemy) - t9 mat quests are outdated imo, 2,5m can be obtained way faster through any other activity that is not training-level-locked. Maybe add a weekly quest for a skill change coupon or add a feature to erase a horse's skill, gain "skill power" and when enough "skill power" has been obtained be able to add a skill to a horse.
    • Active gameplay (skill training for example) isn't rewarded in any way. Trained skills should increase the horse value and should be easier to train the higher your training level/mastery.
    *) I don't know if Grumpy Green's guide is accurate to this regard: ingame mastery info does not include skill chance whislt the guide does.

    Edit: If I were to only talk about training itself (w/o comparing it to fishing) I would also add that the whole horse skill change system should have a f2p alternative. For example:

    1. You level low tier horses and a "erase skill" option allows you to obtain "skill points" before turning it to imperial.
    2. A suitable amount of skill points can be exchanged for a skill coupon/ skill.
    This would force players to level low tier horses to improve higher tier horses and would make the life skill a lot more "complete" imo. Lower tier horses would have additional value: a money (for the skills when imperial turn in) vs skill points decisiom making would arise making it more interesting. It could also be gated by the skills being leveled up to 100% which would add an active aspect to training.
     
    #7 Bumggez, Jun 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
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