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Under Investigation trina combat rifle doing abnormal damage to sea monsters

Discussion in 'Bugs - Archive' started by Jewbelno0921, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. Epsilonial

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    I mean. As it stands, yes it is. As it was, it isn't.

    The problem is while yes, each of you could go sea hunting. Or you guys could each go solo Sausans/Pirates for an equal amount of time, and make as much or more money prior to the matchlock. I enjoy sea content regardless, but objectively, there was literally no reason to do it outside of the reasons I outlined earlier. Either to up your gfunds for guild projects, or to feed money to someone in a roundabout manner.

    I'm a fan of any suggestions or changes that keep sea content relevant. Whether that is moving the onus of killing sea monsters efficiently from Trina Muskets to Hunting Muskets or Ram/Cannon.

    As for the definition. Exploits are unintended uses of gameplay mechanics, and to be frank, you can't tell me you know, with absolute certainty, that this wasn't intended. PA are pretty well known for pushing patches/gameplay mechanics that make no logical sense.

    While I do think it is, technically, an exploit, I don't believe the person I quoted uses the word correctly. He pretty much equates it to cheating, and something that needs to be punished, which I disagree with as I pointed out.
     
  2. Megta

    Megta Archer EU

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    Quote from the ToS: https://blackdesertonline.com/account/TermsOfUse.html?lang=EN
     
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  3. Shdw

    Shdw Shdw Wizard 61 NA

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    If you know where to look you can find Candidum after Candidum after Candidum. Most of the time I finish killing one Candidum, only to see another one not too far away and occasionally forget that they exist, aggro'ing the 2nd as the 1st one starts to reset back to starting position. So wouldn't be too hard to kill a handful, swap channels and go back along the approximate path and kill those same ones. Just rinse and repeat. Although that kill rate would only be possible with Matchlocks currently.

    If everyone in my guild brought in 1.5~2bil every week that would build up pretty fast and equate to larger and larger payouts until how much we bring in is approximately equal to how much gets payed out. Would theoretically and in turn eventually be greater than the majority of grind spots.
    Also, why not do both? I don't spend all my time Sea Monster hunting. If I cared to I could easily pull in my usual 1.5~2bil a week AND grind an equal amount of time.

    Quack.™®©
     
  4. Pohjantikka

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    Ever 2 minutes? What? 70 monster per hour would be cool xD
    Sea monsters drops rare items which are 100mil per piece.
    We even have done a trip where we got 8 of those rares and that trip was about 4-5 hours long.

    In calculations I said the income was "238mil /h - 476mil /h"
    That is very possible with 2-3 Rare items per hour.
     
  5. Janus

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    As to the "intended by developers" discussion I would like to point out that for a long time (a year?) items like flutes, traps and matchlocks were intended for ez-mode killing of Bheg, Dim Tree and Rednose (I forgot what Mudsters vulnerability was). So, the original devs definitely had a thing for easter-egg type of special items for special purposes.

    I also recall a reply from devs about Elixir of Thorn "abuse" (pretty much every player called it exploit) by non-siege-participants to protect allied siege-participants. It got fixed at some point but for a long time the devs said "we congratulate the players to their ingenuity".

    Long story short: With PA devs I would never be sure what constitutes an exploit and what not.
     
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  6. Rayin

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    The "Trina Combat Riffle" and "Hunting Matchlock" is stupid to begin with. If i shoot to a dog with a bazooka that is meant to be used specifically in War, the dog isn't freaking immune, it'll disintegrate the same as a bunch of people targetted by its bullet or a small reinforced tank.
    Even in a world full of magic, how do you explain that?

    Ain't BDO contents already too much crippled? don't ask for a nerf in damage or the utility of a feature, if anything ask for a slight nerf of the money generated in this way. Slight, yeah, because those features were already bad to begin with, so if someone found out a way to have fun with them and even gain something out of it, let the team work around it and turn it into a feature.

    Just remove the normal Matchlocks, it's just freaking dumb that in an open world game we have a set of rules which takes into account Player vs Environment OR Player vs Player scenarios as if are a separated matter.
    Now for a bug we have a tool that consider both and some of you wants to remove that possibility. Cool.
    I want to kill Whales with my piercing spear, it's a magic skill and it's a spear and spears are used for whale hunting, it'll take more time than a matchlock but i want to be able to do that.

    But isn't already really dumb that if i find an Elk in an hunting area i can deal no damage to it with a Dandelion PEN but if i get a +9 hunting Matchlock that can barely tickle an Ogre i one shot it?

    Come on...
     
  7. iller

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    And you're just comparing one gun to another. The Hunting musket procs damage on them. It just doesn't SCALE UP as abruptly at the end. The Cannons are just a large gun too that also doesn't scale up damage as much. All Cannons are Siege "Guns", you can't deny that.

    If you want a real possible explanation here?... it seems to me that the Designers did this ON PURPOSE by just giving sea monsters the same exact armor type as guild mounts that heavily resists martial/magic damage, and at the same time didn't realize they were allowing the scaling a seige musket does to be such a big modifier. And all they have to do to fix it, is re-evaluate their game breaking systematic imbalance of how AP grossly outscales DP

    (and I wouldn't be surprised if renown is factoring into this too b/c it's just corrupted everything ever since it came out)
     
    #47 iller, Jun 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  8. Velexia

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    I discovered this on Friday, and when I shared it with my guild, for the first time ever I had people actually interested in Sea Monster Hunting. This makes hunting Sea Monsters tolerable. At +11 it takes about 16 shots to kill an Ocean Stalker. At DUO it takes about 16 shots to kill a Goldmont Large Battleship (and I took a lot of health damage from it's cannons during the fight, and it often stopped out of range). On my second trip out with a Duo Trina Matchlock, I lost half of my boat's health to a Nineshark because it was pitch black and I couldn't see it before it would hit me. I barely won that fight.

    Trina Matchlocks are fine for Ocean Content. They make it worth doing. Consider how much silver you could make in a regular grind spot, vs this (everything you make goes toward guild funds and you get a small portion of that). Without the Matchlock it's disgustingly low, with it, it's maybe on par or a little lower.

    The only worry about DeadSerious and ocean content is whether or not they are speedhacking. Not whether or not they are using Trina Matchlocks to make Ocean Content viable.

    What's really sad is I have a Frigate with full Blue Gear and my cannons do such little damage that they aren't even worth using. <- And that was true even before I discovered Trina Rifles.

    @GM Haliaeetus
     
  9. Shdw

    Shdw Shdw Wizard 61 NA

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    Yeah, I'm comparing guns in their ideal situation where they should be dealing their best damage and then the Trina Matchlock. The difference here is that the Hunting Matchlock deals bonus damage to Hunting based targets, where as the Trina Matchlock (is supposed to) deal bonus damage to Humans and Elephants. Boat Cannons deal higher damage to Sea Monsters and Siege Cannons deal higher damage to players and structures. In their ideal environments they deal high damage, but the Trina Matchlock is dealing it's bonus damage to something it shouldn't.
    Even if you say to blame the coder, it's the players abusing it when it shouldn't be functioning as such that needs to be addressed. Doesn't really make sense to point fingers at the coder and blame only them when players are taking advantage of this error in coding. That is exploiting.
    You can continue to believe what you want to believe and I'll continue to believe what I will believe.
    Quack.™®©
     
  10. iller

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    And HOW are we even supposed to know what is "intended" when the actual designers DON'T COMMUNICATE with us??
    (they don't even communicate enough with these poor customer service staffers... I don't envy the job these folks have)

    Are you telling me you're ****ing Psychic and you know exactly what they *meant* to design when not even they appear to know that? ..were talking about a foreign culture here that you are not a native of.. which worships at the altar of RNG. Are you honestly telling me that you can read those tea leaves and tell us exactly what their desired outcomes always were when so many things in this game are so chaotic and randomly thrown together?
     
    #50 iller, Jun 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  11. Pohjantikka

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    Here is some more calculations of the money
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    "IF" scenario (which is possible to do) for maximum money from past 2 weeks would be:
    100 player Guild goes to hunt sea monster (100% active members)
    >5 man groups on 20 channels (with powerful weapons and fast boats)
    >Each group hunts 8 hours per day (no lifers)
    >Each group collects 0.5 bil / h loot (getting good RNG there)

    20 groups x 8h x 14d x 0.5bil = 1120 bil silver

    40% to bonuses all gets equally Rank 1 bonus
    1120 bil x 40% / 100 = 4.48 Bil per player
    4480 mil / 14d / 8h = 40mil /h

    So you could just grind 8 hours per day and earn same amount of money.
    40mil /h + Good exp
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    And in the other example;
    If a XL guild goes for full ham:
    80 ppl hunts 8 hours per day for 14 days, with 350mil/h speed
    10 more ships/ppl x 8 hours per day x 14 days x 350mil/h
    = 10 x 8h x 14d x 0.35 bil
    = 392 bil silver
    40% to bonuses all gets equally Rank 1 bonus
    (392 bil x 40%) / 80
    80x Rank 1 = 1.96 bil per player
    1960 mil / 14d / 8h = 17.5 mil/h
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    What an exploit!!!
    Any player can earn that money in same time.
     
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  12. Velexia

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    Agreed. If you can't make 2 billion silver in 2 weeks at 8 hours a day every day (way more than I play, lol) you are seriously doing something wrong. Just AFK cooking overnight while asleep is 75m per day at least.
     
  13. Flandre

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  14. Anamie

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    [QUOTE = "WhySoSeeryus, post: 1338616, member: 272654"] Es curioso cómo las personas siempre se apresuran a informar cuando algo está en su contra, pero cuando está obviamente roto al ayudarlos, ¿es una oportunidad?

    obviamente no fue pensado para un arma de guerra / asedios para hacer daño a los monstruos marinos. lo abusaron no es un arma de CAZA. esos están marcados con [Caza] y Trina está marcado con [Combate] [/ CITA]

    Facepalm
     
  15. Teianna

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    So what I get from this entire thread is that people who previously had no desire to do sea monster hunts are now interested because there is something that will allow them to make money fast, and they don't want that changed regardless of whether or not that's how the game is supposed to be played. While those of us who actually enjoyed the sea monster content beforehand because it wasn't about the money are asking the devs and GMs to please fix something that's broken about the system. But ya know. We're the bad guys because we might cut into your paychecks which many have pointed out you could just as easily get from grinding.
     
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  16. Flandre

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    I'm prof9 in sailing which means i did quite some sailing before this matchlock thing appeared and i DO NOT want them to remove this feature, in fact its much more enjoyable and fun killing the seamonsters with the matchlock instead of ram against each other. Also now its more profitable for the pve guilds like mine.

    I'd like to add there are worse bugs related to the sea like the nineshark teleports or friendly ships disappearing or goldmont ships not loading until you are too close to them..
     
    #56 Flandre, Jun 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
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  17. Anamie

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    The same as Flande. Im prof9 in sailing and this is the only way to get real profitability like grinding etc.

    It is not easy money. you have to invest many hours
     
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  18. Megta

    Megta Archer EU

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    Look again who i quoted and what he said.
    To make it short, he said something like, using an exploid is not punishable.

    I never said the matchlock thing is or is not an exploid.
    But as long as the developers havn't said something about it, I wouldn't use it.
     
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  19. WastedJoker

    WastedJoker Striker 61 EU

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    Why can't this guild stop cheating.
     
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  20. Teianna

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    I'm not saying there aren't people out there that are for this. Clearly, there are. What I'm saying is what I'm getting out of the entire argument of this thread is people who never really did much sea monster content before are salty because some of us who doing sailing on the regular think the matchlocks do TOO MUCH damage (not to be confused with doing bonus damage in general) and we want that to be fixed.
     
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