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Under Investigation trina combat rifle doing abnormal damage to sea monsters

Discussion in 'Bugs - Archive' started by Jewbelno0921, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. iller

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    I just want to point out that this math is fudged... you cannot collect more than 2400 neidans/goldmont coins per hour while firing muskets effectively without a Galley to overstack on. They would have to turn around and hit the Lema guild warf every 40 minutes and It takes 10 minutes just to reach the open waters beyond the very low yielding Hekaru ...players who are doing this with only Epherias, are using a Trainer cheat.

    Yes, and even /w the fudged hourly math above... and the overly generous RNG you gave them... that same RNG luck for a Gyfin group yields 30+ mil per hour per individual (and the upcoming changes once Caphras stones come out, may even surpass that to the extremes of 40m/h in Kama)


    Paychecks have very little to do with it. The fact is that the Cannons were way too slow, and DID NOT REWARD AIMING SKILL. Matchlocks... while somewhat buggy hitbox wise (if you've ever done that "shoot the Eagles" quest on the way to Lynch farm, you know exactly what I'm talking about) ... it's still way more engaging than using the Cannons. And as long as you're not fudging the Math, it actually only works out to about 12.5 mil/hour individually which I'll point out is only 2.5mil/h more than Savage Rift works out to and savage Rift has a WAAAAY easier targeting skill floor on it than shooting a Nineshark & Candidum (and S.R. also gives a **** load of XP to uplevels)

    If this was only about the money.... don't you think that would have been the first thing I started Rationalizing in the first pages of this thread? ...B/c again, for players with our experience and skill (who can already pull and 85% chain-clear the Steps on Gyfin) ... we could be making way more money than this in that much more stressful environment. But we don't do that as much because this guild focused activity gets more of our newer less geared members involved. Not only that, we do what people used to do in MMO's, which is spend lot of time together engaged in friendly banter. (instead of getting bitched out every 5 minutes when someone forgets to Elixir, mis-pulls, or doesn't route statues just right)

    And I'm inclined to Agree with that!... But before you make too many assumptions about that Damage, PLEASE go enhance your own Trina and do some testing with it b/c what you will discover is that it's Base damage is a straight up joke against them. It's exactly like all other AP scaling over DP in this game. It's just like trying to go farm Sulfur mines with only 180 AP. You don't start seeing those "crazy" levels of damage until your Trinas are DUO, TRI, TET. ..so therefore the only thing that needs tweaking here (assuming they don't just destroy this content entirely again) is how they scale at the final enhancement tiers
     
    #61 iller, Jun 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
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  2. Anamie

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    You know what is the "cheating" wtf (facepalm)
     
  3. MrSexyPanda

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    I'm a member in a guild that was focused on Margoria and Sea Hunting content for quite a while now (before the matchlocks). Rather than few of our hunters still giving it a try, most of the members went back to the old ways of Ram/Canons/Party on galley, due to the matchlocks really not being as good as people claim they are on forums. They are an alternative way to hunt.
     
  4. RoakOriginal

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  5. Pohjantikka

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    "fudge"...well actually not. You are just doing it wrong and poorly
    If you know routes and have skilled ppl on your ship then you can easily get that much of money
    And if you didn't know, monsters also drop Rare items which are 100mil per piece.

    With 5 man group and Galley you can easily get 1-2 billion silver per day, and just by using 3-6 hours.
    More ppl you have, easier it will be ofc.
    Sailing to Port Ratt saves lots of time too and you can stay at the big sea all the time.
    Also there are other monsters than just Hekaru...


    I dont think that Gyfins would be the best place to farm money...
    Recently; one friend (high geared) solo grinded 1 hour in Manshaum Forest:
    https://i.imgur.com/re55iux.png
    Without Narc earring value would be still be
    45 million silver

    heck, even a <50lvl player can grind easily 8-10million silver in Calpheon areas.
    And there are ton of grinding ways to earn lots of money per hour
    2-3 man sausans group / Solo grind in Helms mines / Solo grind in Soldiers grave / etc
    (Not sure how much those area will give, but it should easily be +10mil /h)
    And now we have Arsha Channel boost... So 20 mil/h should be pretty easy to get, EVEN without the Arsha Boost

    Biggest differences between this sea monster hunting and grinding are:
    >Sea monster hunting => Guild bonus, pure money, but you need to do teamwork to get it and can get only every 7days
    >Grinding loots are valued, not pure money. But you can do it without others and do it on your own pace.
     
  6. iller

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    No, plz don't just dismiss what I actually was talking about
    please reread exactly what I said... B/c it agrees with your point
    without a Galley... not with one like you are saying, I know exactly how much we can make per hour with a Galley.
    The main problem that everyone who's obsessed with that DeadSerious TROLL guild is that they keep ignoring the fact that no guild can ever own more than 3 Galleys. And no guild can haul nearly as much Neidans (on the Driver mostly) without using the Galleys to overstack it. So every one of those stupid idiots keep posting these exaggerated stats about 80-95 people all in one guild doing this every day and hauling around way more drops than they could actually carry -- when that's literally impossible for them to be doing w/o overstacking (and still shooting/reloading effectively) since Epherias can't do that

    I'm tired of people talking past me on this key piece of the puzzle
    (or pretending that everyone and their brother's brother's brother's Alt-accounts had Max Pay2Win weight AND Duo/Tri GoldenCoral belt)
     
    #66 iller, Jun 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  7. Pohjantikka

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    Hmph, i see that i missed word "without"... oh well
    I understood that you were heavily against my words before.

    "Impossible to earn 935 bil in 2 weeks?"
    I still don't think it would be an impossible thing to do without hacks
    Guild just needs to do very good team work and time up their doings. (And lots of no lifers)

    BUT, most likely this 935B (DeadSerious) guild have done some hacking than doing good team work.
     
    iller likes this.
  8. iller

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    Yeah I mean it *might* be possible with insane levels of coordination.. When it comes right down to it, it's almost like a video game version of the River Crossing puzzle:
    [​IMG]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_crossing_puzzle

    but if you've already read that thread a couple DS'ers made an appearance in... it's obvious that none of them are exactly what you'd call Socially gifted Masterminds (they're obviously not even technically gifted and definitely not grammatically gifted)
     
    #68 iller, Jun 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
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  9. Pohjantikka

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    With new calculations: Guild of perfect teamwork with only Galleys
    Not going full on details here...
    --------------------------------------------------- But as realistic and possible as i can think
    Guild has 93ppl and 3 galleys
    Every Galley will have 31 ppl
    "To keep this more realistic, every player will use 8h /day on sea hunting"
    So best way would be 3 time periods of Sea hunting, Morning+Day+Night, that would do 24h/day
    Soo, every galley will have 10 ppl on board at the time, switching time will be instant.
    1 extra player will be driving an extra boat for switchers and to keep items flowing into banks and lets players visiting towns

    14days x 24h/day = 336 hours
    Average income 350 mil /h /galley (RNG carried bastards)
    3x Galleys => 350 x3 = 1050 mil/h

    2 weeks:
    336h x 1050mil/h = 352800 mil = 352.8 bil

    Payouts 40%
    (352.8 bil x 40%) / 93xRank1 = 1.517 bil
    Income:
    1517 mil / (8h/day x 14d) = 13.5mil /h
    And that is pretty damn good team play.

    To get 1000 Bil silver in 2 weeks
    Groups needs to be smaller and Guild will need more Galleys
    How many Galleys needed?
    (1000bil x 1000mil) / 336h / 350mil/h/galley= Atleast 9 Galleys
     
  10. KeiirValk

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    You're trying so hard to defend this without any actual logical defense - you failed entirely trying to spin his words onto him and it just failed badly...

    He is absolutely right, those who used this knew it and thus exploiting a mode in the game for higher payouts in-directly ... People are not dumb, and will find many, many ways to exploit this horrible coded game as we have seen throughout this game's history. It's very clear the matchlock was not intended to do this. Much like the shovel was not meant to not decrease energy when shoveling. Those who did it knew it wasn't working as intended and they got banned for it.

    This is taking a weapon outside of it's intended realm and knowingly using it in another game mode because it does more damage for gains, this is exploiting mechanics in the game.

    If you are trying to tell me an entire guild doing this to make money faster for higher payouts isn't intended on their end, you're an absolute idiot. You included since you're obviously a part of a guild doing this and I know you are or you wouldn't be so adamant to defend it.

    The question Kakao will ask themselves is this: Does banning an entire guild that most likely makes pearl purchase regularly, and thus banning other guilds that do the same thing hurt their business in the end. It's clear this exploit doesn't directly interfere with their artisan memory sales so it's a safe bet to assume this will be brushed away and no punishment will be given at all. At the very least, it will get nerfed and people will end up finding some other way to get money faster for their guild for higher payouts outside of node/siege wars. If you think this is fine, even if you are involved in it, you are knowingly hurting the game's integrity - what little integrity this game even has left.

    As such, punishment must be given... We do not get to pick and choose who gets to exploit and what rewards they get to exploit.

    I know most of the people in guilds doing this will come to reply , but an exploit IS an exploit. It's very obvious a lot of these guilds were knowingly abusing this exploit which makes even more punishable.
     
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  11. Pohjantikka

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    Exploit is an exploit...
    Lets punish all those guilds who used CtG for Traders. That exploit was WAY worse than this sea monster thing. Traders saved hundreds hours of time at running from Trent to Valencia City. And yes everyone know that it was an exploit.
    OR lets punish all those who has used Infinity stacking, that is a exploit too.
    In KR PA was even talking that they would do that "punish all who uses infinity stacking", but they released that it would mean punishing +75% of the whole player base. So they left it be.

    Isn't it also unfair exploit that Siege guilds are owning Castles/Regions and then during weeks players moves to an alt guild and do T2-T3 nodes for more money? With this exploit high-end pvpers are earning money from T2-T3 nodes + Castles = which is insane amount of money
    This also an exploit which all guilds knows...

    And because of this "Exploit" Sea monsters is now an actual content for guilds. Big sea has never been this populated before.
    Now there is an actual money source for PVE guilds who doesn't want to PVP in BDO.


    "But BDO is a PVP game!" = NOT anymore... when pvp safe patch came, BDO turned into a soft-core pvp game. No pvping during World bosses: No open world pvp, no duels, no battle areena...only RBF is working.
     
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  12. Shamend

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    Sadly this isn't true because if it would really be "Hunting dmg" then it would mean they would deal dmg to normal Hunting targets. The reason for that is that the Hunting dmg is on the normal Hunting Matchlocks aswell. With that in mind i went out and tested this.
    First thing i did:
    (PRI)Trina Matchlock testing on a "Giant Elk" Hunting target.
    Results 2 shoots dealt close to 1% dmg.

    But with the listed Hunting dmg on KR Codex of 1500 at +0
    (taken from this screen https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?attachments/musket-png.113976/)
    it should deal alot more than 1% per 2 shoots. The reason for that is that a professional Hunting Matchlock +0 has 1200 Hunting dmg and is able to deal alot more than 1% per shot.

    To make sure i sailed out and tested the normal Hunting Matchlock on a seamonster, the result to no surprise showed that the Hunting matchlock didnt dmg the seamonster.

    Out of these test i can say that the "not listed hunting dmg" is close to 100% not the reason why it deals massive dmg to seamonster.

    --
    My speculation for this lies rather in the "+8500 war elephant dmg" it could be that for some reason the elephants and seamonster are in the same role and with that they are treated as the same for the Trina Matchlock.

    I sadly dont have the means to test this speculation.
     
    #72 Shamend, Jun 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
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  13. Geobryn

    Geobryn Tamer 62 EU

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    hunting matchlock is not made for ocean hunting, the trina one is though (Mosquete para conquista y océano)
    also, the trina matchlock is doing garbage dmg to ships

    elephant = large mammal
    sea monster = large mammal

    working as intended XD
     
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  14. Draconnix

    Draconnix Berserker 62

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  15. Megta

    Megta Archer EU

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    You know, there are two spanish translations and the other spanish translation is totaly different.
    https://bdocodex.com/sp/item/16347/

    Also none of the other 12 translations (including the original korean translation) says something about "ocean".
    So it's just 1 out of 13 translations and you still think it's translation is correct?

    Sea monsters are large fish and not mammals.
     
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  16. Shamend

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    First thing blue whales and small whales are Ocean hunting targets.
    Second Espaniol EU is the only language that has this name Espaniol (Redfox) has like other languages Trina Matchlock
    Third, Large mammals seriously? that role name is wrong simply because the Pirate ships are affected by Trina Matchlocks aswell (and they are most likely fish not mammals) ~13shoots to kill 1 small and 5-6 to kill Hekaru with a Pri one.

    We cant say for sure what it is aslong we dont have an offical response and that logic "Out of 13 translation one says océano while every other one not, so that one must be true" is not really helping and to add there are 2 Espaniol translation on the bdocodex site one says "océano" the other not.
     
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  17. Geobryn

    Geobryn Tamer 62 EU

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    source ? most of the time their head is above water > no gills > lungs > mammal :P

    yes, but the damage to pirate ships is garbage compared to dmg to monsters
    if you keep the pirate ship on your deck you can easily kill it with your dande, trina matchlock have 150 AP > it acts as any other weapon
     
  18. KeiirValk

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    An exploit is an exploit, you are correct. I think punishment should be bannable in all aspects you are referring to. These are all known issues.

    Also, because they made PvP a little safer in open world pvp doesn't make it any less of a PvP game. This argument is such a bad approach on your end. It is a PvP game technically whether you like it or not, or how many patches they push out. I can go to a spot and push anybody out with my 255ap gear and I might get karma bombed , I'm still PvPing.

    This is a PvP game , although it's just covered by gear caps and non-skill gameplay. If you don't like PvPing, well , sorry?

    If you don't like putting the work in as a guild to secure a siege, their shouldn't be an option to just go exploit a game feature and you can make triple even quadruple the payout a siege guild holding Valencia is paying out regardless if they're dropping their main guild to farm a node on a secondary which is also bannable (like you said). The only reason you're out in sea, is because you are exploiting a game feature. This is bannable in it's own right.

    Thanks for agreeing
     
    #78 KeiirValk, Jun 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
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  19. Janus

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    @GM Haliaeetus did you and your team by now find out if you consider this an exploit or not? If not, I would like to do some seamonster hunting... earlier rather than later
     
  20. Velexia

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    So to the people screaming that it's an exploit to use the Trina Matchlock Rifle on Sea Monsters, what do you have to say about the fact that it is specifically designed to help kill Vell? And have you tried going out using them on Sea Monsters yourselves, or are you just reacting to that 900b DeadSerious screenshot?

    It takes 10 shots to kill a Nineshark, about, with a Duo rifle. Depending on the conditions, assuming Solo, a Nineshark could do 50% health damage to your boat in that time, and unless you have softcap gear you take a decent amount of damage as well.

    Takes 19 Shots with a Duo rifle to take out a Goldmont Large Battleship.

    An Ocean Stalker, which can drop as little as 15 Neidan (1.5 million guild funds) dies in 6-7 Shots with a Duo rifle.

    Have you considered the comparison to Hunting Rifles vs Hunting Targets? A Professional Hunting Matchlock does a LOT of damage to Hunting Targets. Is that an exploit too?
     
    #80 Velexia, Jun 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018

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