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Valks getting bit of movement love (global labs)

Discussion in 'Valkyrie' started by WhySoSeeryus, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. Gendouki

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    Nice to see you are still as clueless as ever in regards to your knowledge of Valkyries, guess all that usage of tiger blade along with having high evasion (that makes you nearly unkillable) and the perma sa dash spam really made you lose brain cells.

    first of all you say our block never breaks... well check this clip then mr know it all: https://www.twitch.tv/himawarintv/clip/KawaiiGenerousPonyAMPTropPunch
    (literally everyone knows how easy it is to counter blocks and the valk in this clip is 404 dp btw)

    second of all its sa off cd (and only on death line chase) unlike the guy in this test assumed (testing gorr roll in 2k19 when only the first hit of it ccs, lul)
    https://www.twitch.tv/himawarintv/clip/TardyJazzyVampirePogChamp

    also even if the dash became perma sa it wouldn't be as busted as musa dumb a** 3 skill fully protected high burst engage (at least terra sancta is unprotected, immobile and takes time to cast) or the unccable and horribly designed "tiger blade" (why isnt that skill nerfed yet?) that makes you dash forever with no stamina cost and perma att while fully protected (even dsync out of grab)

    How about you maehwas and musas find something else to cry on your busted a** class with perma protected mobility and skills that ignore both dr and evasion.

    P.S: about shield not breaking at 350 dp: https://www.twitch.tv/himawarintv/clip/GleamingCrispyWrenDendiFace
     
    #41 Gendouki, Jun 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  2. bob349

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    Is warrior Head Chase still on 2s cooldown? If so they really ought to drop the cooldown on DLC to 2 seconds as well.
     
  3. Akantorian

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    Valk and warrior block are an absolute joke and theres people complaining about it, wow.
     
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  4. Jexz

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    The only viable defense in this game are i-frames. sorc is what a defensive class looks like
     
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  5. Gramms

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    An 200 ap Archer destroy my shield block in 20 sec and I was with 330 something dp... Musa 260 ap 2 hits block broken... Well if you use an 110 ap char yes you can't destroy
     
  6. bob349

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    I realize there are many classes whom have stamina/cooldown limited movement protection, but does anyone besides Valkyie have stamina/cooldown and frontal guard limitation(broken guard means no protected movement even if on cooldown, even if stamina is available)?

    It's been about a year since I could be bothered to play...
     
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  7. ODB3698

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    I'm sorry, but I have to call bs on the "defensive hero" part. That's like saying witch/wiz are "healing heroes". That's like saying mystic isn't a defensive hero...because they don't use a shield...completely ignoring their actual defensive benefits. That's like saying the combination of iframes/evasion/super armor does not exceed the defensive benefits of "having a shield"...that is only a benefit on specific skills and off cool down and unidirectional. Someone needs to stop trying to see wow when they look at bdo.
     
    #47 ODB3698, Jun 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  8. Andaro

    Andaro Archive
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    Welp...when the devs tell you what direction the class is supposed to take, and you want to go another direction, you cant really make suggestions that detour from their direction, which is probably why a lot of suggestions fail.

    Now that we know the direction of her identity, it may be more easier (and successful)to make suggestions based on that identity

    "Valk is a defensive character that moves forward with her shield..." ....pretty clear notes there.
     
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  9. bob349

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    Unless out of SP, or Stamina, or off Cooldown, or currently locked into blocking animation.

    Well to be fair, they didn't say "while blocking'. Maybe we could get the shield visually replaced with a purse.
     
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  10. ODB3698

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    A person can repeat something ridiculous a million times and it will still be ridiculous. The mechanics are pretty clear too. Can anyone legitimately argue that forward guard is more defense than an iframe? Can anyone legitimately argue that blocking some damage...from one direction...versus avoiding damage completely...from all directions...is more defensive? Just based on that absolute fact, I'm extremely interested to see how they can possibly justify designating Valk as a defensive character...when compared to mystic, ninja, striker, sorc...any class that iframes/evades and has SA with a cherry on top. I hear you though...the've made their claim...let's see how they back it up. Hopefully they don't back it up like they did with the "balance/nerf" patches last april/may 2018...when they just broke the game and decided not to talk about it for over a year.
     
    #50 ODB3698, Jun 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
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  11. Muhaha

    Muhaha Valkyrie 62 NA

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    "Valk is a defensive wheelchair character that moves forward with her shield.. Her weighing more than zarka himself, she tends to lack stamina, so it takes time to catch up with everyone else... In her wake, she heals allies, kills enemies, almost always resulting in the ultimate sacrifice, her life."

    This sounds more right.
     
  12. Andaro

    Andaro Archive
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    Oh no no, you make a very good point with FG vs Iframe.....and I think that is true.

    What im suggesting is that if we know their desires direction, then perhaps we can formulate better suggestions that play to that....even perhaps questioning the validity and over usage of Iframes versus SA vs FG.

    In order to build up to questioning the mechanics themselves, we have to find the other classes identities as well in order to find what classes share traits that dont match up to the direction given...

    ;) believe me, I hear you
    The water will get more murky as we dive into the swamp, but we will eventually touch bottom.


    The most difficult thing about class discussions these past three years is that we have not had solid commentary on what the classes intentions were.....

    Find that out is step one, and from there...well...it changes the whole discussion doesn't it?
     
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  13. ODB3698

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    I understand what they are trying to say/do. I also understand what you are saying. I have several issues with the arguments made though.

    The first is the implication that they can somehow not already know the issues with the validity of iframes versus SA versus FG...after this many years of data and forum debates (a significant number of in-depth analyses in this Valkyrie forum). They literally admitted that they knew this was a problem in the may 2018 patch notes when they included a line in the patch notes saying that Valkryie required further development due to removing lingering super armor. Here we are over a year later and the problem still exists. No actual solutions even discussed by the developers with us. The only thing we have is this one google translated possibility of one SA every 3 seconds...apparently only on the first dlc. We'll apparently still be trying to disengage/reposition with our shoestrings tied together.

    The second is the implication that since they are creating the designation of a "defensive" class, that by default, creates the opposite designation of an "offensive" class. One of the big appeals of this game, was the divergence from the tank/dps/heal trinity of older mmo games. We didn't have to worry about our class only being playable in a group environment...due to inherent low damage output or low sustain. We didn't have to worry about being someone's heal slave because we had a healing ability. Every class was self sufficient with a good ratio of all aspects. Currently this is handled by different survival paradigms (mitigation, avoidance, and recovery). Every class has a varying mix of these three. This balance is being jeopardized by trying to put classes in role boxes. If you crank up the recovery aspect too high...you create healers and have to reduce their damage output accordingly. The same thing happens if you crank up mitigation or avoidance. It feels like they are, once again, getting too ambitious...and will end up abandoning this mid process like they did last year...leaving us with an even more broken product. If they couldn't get it right last year...what has changed? When they start alluding to trinity roles...it feels like they have given up and want to copy/paste from older games.

    I have a hard time agreeing on the "class intentions" thing. One would assume the intention for every class in a open world pvp/pve grind mmo...is to kill stuff efficiently and have good survival tools...with some decent variety. I can see some functions in group pvp...particularly healing. There needs to be some sustain and there is a decent amount of that now between wiz/witch/valk...and possibly shai? Every class can buff other classes...none of that requires a hard role designation though. I have a hard time seeing the value, in node wars, having a class that their only valid contribution is healing. That when everyone else is dead..it can only sit there and spam heals on itself...that is incapable of killing opponents. The same would be the case of a pure defensive class...that doesn't have the offense to end a threat to the base. Same issues in open world pvp/pve...with someone pushing you out of a grind spot. Killing you isn't the only way you get pushed out...just out farming you is easier. I'm just having a hard time seeing where the benefit to the game is...in making "defensive" versus "whatever else" distinctions/intentions.
     
  14. Darkuso

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    Hahahaha so poetic and at the same tiem true. Make one for warrior please, probably should start with is the class with the biggest weapon but still cant deal any damage unless its a duel, so instead of a greatsword should be using a dagger. :')
     
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  15. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    iframe efficiency should go down if used in succession. timers should reset after x seconds.

    mechanic should be along the lines of:

    so first iframe is 100% dmg avoidance,second 90*, third 80* etc..... counter resets if u dont use iframes for 5 seconds. (*numbers could be tweaked but u get the point)
     
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  16. Hearts

    Hearts Valkyrie 62 EU

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    I was expecting a lot from these changes but to say I'm disapointed is an understatement. The only thing I wanted was iframe on first shield chase. Just to be able to avoid grab I react to. Any kind of iframe that isn't broken would have been a great addition.

    What they did feels more like a nerf with the apparently DLC not working anymore during CD. The SA on first dash is a good addition but it's useless against class that spam you from far away.
     
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  17. Naho

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    The Devs themselves doesn't know what direction they want to give to every class, I just feel like they buff and nerf classes when Korean players start complaining. A defensive hero they said. Just because she has a shield, they thought that would mean double defense? But what is a shield when you get grapple or smashed from behind? Play it full evasion / DR , you won't do anything beside healing the backline. If they wanna make it look like a support class let us know. Strong Ulti , Strong burst and yet dies to a lack of protection , but still called " a defensive class ".
    I dunno man ...
     
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  18. ODB3698

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    Can you imagine the outcry from the fotm community if they did this? To be honest though, I wouldn't blame them for complaining about being sold on a class..and have its core survival snatched out from beneath it...after feeding it cash shop pearls for years. I know that feeling well with Valk and I don't wish that on other players. I do think this idea has merit though. Maybe instead of decreasing the efficiency of iframes (as they would not actually be iframes if they did not make the character invincible), limit the number of times they can be used successively...like Valkyrie shield chase. I also say this because of world boss pve damage. Reduced damage from a world boss may still be enough to kill lower base hp classes.
     
  19. ODB3698

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    I agree with you...I doubt that they have any direction they want to give every class. Just like when they said they had a plan when they came out with the "No SA + CC" rule...that ended up not being a rule at all...as it still does not apply equally to all classes...over a year later. Just like then, if there was an actual plan, it would be implented all at once. There wouldn't be tiny hints dropped in global lab like this removal of FG on backwards DLC and SA every 3 seconds on forward DLC. There would be a single patch with a comprehensive solution. Anything short of that is just them throwing darts blindfolded again. I feel sorry for the next sacrificial class...whoever is first on the chopping block like we were last time.
     
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  20. Dalenos

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    Typical whiteknight company nerfed valkyrie to the ground so you will like and will not complain classic fanbois attitude.
     
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