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We need to talk about the OP'NESS of Witch/Wizard

Discussion in 'Witch/Wizard' started by Goobur, Aug 24, 2018.

  1. Goobur

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    For the most part I find Kakao has done a good Job reducing the imbalance of classes and reducing the gap between an OP class and a weaker one. Granted there are still a couple outliers, but all in all it's pretty good. (Whether the combat is fun in this argument will be irrelevant, because that's very subjective.)

    Before we get into the reasons why Witch/Wizard is OP, i would like to state this is from a perspective of the overall state of wit/wiz vs other classes and not just in one aspect of the game. Namely, the fact that they suck at 1v1. Better than they used to be, but still bottom tier.

    Top Reasons why they are so OP.

    1. Protect Area
    This ability coupled with healing are what make the wit/wiz so coveted in siege/nw. One easily executed ability should not be able to change the tide of battle. Pearl Abyss. , Protect Area. PA, PA hmmm, coincidence? Tin Foil hats aside, this ability needs to be removed. It has been a thorn in the side of the Siege/NW scene for ages and we have asked multiple times for reworks, but unfortunately P.A. refuse to listen.

    2. Multiple Healing Abilities and MP recovery
    The only class with 3 heals, and MP recovery abilities. Valk is the only other class with a healing ability and sadly it sucks. Wit/Wiz have so much utility, more so than Mystic. The wit/wiz in BDO is a combination of a Mage/Priest/Paladin. In any other MMO these game changing abilities would be separated.

    3. Range AOE damage
    Wit/wiz have great damage and large AOE abilities, larger than ranger/dk. Granted 2 abilities have reduced AoE damage and only 1 that was a major nerf, as the blizzard nerf was warranted. The rest of the damage is still very strong.

    4. Protected abilities
    Most of the abilities are protected, unlike other classes who have very minimal FG's and SA, this is due to the lack of movement abilities. The one thing a lot of people do not realize is the strength of protected abilities in this current meta of NW/Siege. While everyone else has glaring gaps in their abilities, wit/wiz can stand and trade better than the other classes. This does have a down side as it affects 1v1 potential.

    Wit/wiz have a phenomenal presence in all aspects of the game. Whether it be PVE, small scale combat or siege. They have so much utility , with the combination of heals/Pa and Damage, they end up being the most wanted class. They are in high demand by siege and node war guilds. Usually siege guilds and good nw guilds will take a wit/wiz over a geared musa/ninja/maehwa/ranger any day of the week. Your PvE, is good - great depending on where your grinding, your doing better than most other classes in terms of grind efficiency and still a top 5 grind class.
     
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  2. Crimson_Scarlet

    Crimson_Scarlet Shai 60 NA

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    So what you dont like the whole pre awaken kit then, whats the purpose of this thread there are countless ones already about it of why x class is op, especially about witch wiz at that.
     
  3. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    If witchzards were so op guilds wouldnt have to beg people to play them.
     
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  4. Lemon Crush

    Lemon Crush Juicey_Lemon Witch 61 NA

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    They want them for one reason and one reason only. PA. And heals I suppose.

    That is what is overpowered. The classes themselves aren't that great.

    Okay at grinding, bottom of the ladder for open world pvp, and okay in small scale.

    They only excel in large scale where they can slam PA and aoes without being bothered.
     
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  5. GazelIe

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    You are just undergeared. Wizard and Witch have been so nerfed that they are rare AF now. Whats the point to play a stiff class with no mobility and cooldown that last forever? None except heal your sorry ass in nodes. You can destroy 1v1 any Wiz/Witch if you know stances...
     
  6. Despins

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    You should indicate at which PvP bracket you fight. By that, I mean, is it intermediate, or veteran, or beginner? Or, far below softcap, below softcap, at softcap, slightly above softcap, high above softcap.

    This matters a lot because Witch and Wizard are strong at first with player's inexperience, then become slowly bad at Softcap, and back to good above softcap. While all over those stages, except perhaps high above softcap, the class is 'carried' by the classical/defensive supportive abilities of heal and protected area.

    I'll go point by point and hope to give insights.

    1. Yes, Protected Area is OP. But, there are a couple of general opinions on the topic. The first is the one you state where it is considered as a tool that makes Witch and Wizard Stronger. I personally find it uninformed. Then, two more opinions emerges. In a nutershell, the second opinion is that 'Removing Protected Area is a buff to Witch and Wizard' and the third opinion that then follows is that 'Because of this logic, Protected Area is ultimately needed for Siege, and is not necessarily a tool that makes Witch or Wizard own completely and should be disregarded when it comes to evaluating their power'. I'll leave to tell that removing Protected Area can be a buff to Witch and Wizard in a sense where they best counter to a Witch and Wizard nuke is either spreading or Protected Area inside a deathball. Because ultimately, Witchard are for the most part a Nuke Support class.

    2. About healing and MP recovery. MP recovery is a non-issue, and Witch and Wizard is one of the class where a lack of MP results in death; it's also the first time I see it discussed. As for healing it's an old topic. Healing of allies in BDO is not that great and frankly hard to evaluate how effective it truly is. Valkyries heal is probably more useful when the safety is considered. But, it is true that they have three heals. The single target + self 20%, the long AoE heal and the Rabam quick AoE heal. When used for self, they act more as a kit bandaid since the class seems to be designed at naturally taking damage like a sponge and healing it back. It's the way it is for a class with no i-frames or mobility post-teleport cooldown.

    3. Yes, the ranged skills can be good when used well. It's one of the class specialty. But they come with the usual limitations of the staff kit with the exception of Meteor Shower that is better than ever before (and one of the most enjoyable skill in the entire class kit). Absolute never provided us with a significant damage boost, and it only affected cooldowns to a minor degree. But yet again, I fail to see how this class would work without ranged skills and pokes to surprise some.

    4. This one varies between Witch and Wizard. And they aren't the worst offender of this category by far. For instance, it seems that about everything a Striker do in 1v1 or NW/Siege is protected. And they don't have to wait 7 seconds before being able to dip out.


    And finally, I'd like to add a few points.

    We lost our freeze combos. This means that only the highest AP Witchards are able to one combo.

    Freeze is the worst CC in the game since the target only receives 20% of the damage when incased in ice. This reduction applies to the freeze skill itself, retroactively in case where the freeze would CC the target. Grapple was promptly buffed when it dealt so little damage, but not Freeze.

    The second worst CC in the game is knockback and Witch has an over abondance of this garbage. They are a waste of CC potential and sometimes helps the opponent stand up faster. This is the underlying issue of Witch in regards to the loss of optimal combos. Bound/float/knockdown/freeze -> Fissure Wave's knockback is terrible and any Witch doing it should feel bad doing it.

    Witch and wizards are greatly affected by the Resist changes since they only ever get one chance of casting another skill during to chain a CC when target is CCed. And the most optimal combos require landing a Knockdown or Bound (and this one, everybody runs double Adamantine for full Knockdown/Bound resistance). This leaves the class in constant uncertainty when it comes to chaining CC effectively for kill potential. Instead, they go for awful combo that are 'safer'.
     
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  7. LikesItRuff

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    You can look at guild recruitment in game, all of the serious guilds are so desperate for wizards they are even lowering GS requirements for wiz/witch over other classes just to get them in. I am guildess and i prefer to stay that way, my 61 wiz gets constant whispers from every form of guild asking if i am interesting in joining even with my (Not looking for a guild bio) they even whisper me saying along the lines of please whisper "me" if you change my mind. I'm sure you could get similiar stories from other wizards, but the fact is were a slowly dying class.


    Wiz/witch are only good at small-large scale we are bottom tier 1 vs 1 but what good is a group based class when nodes and sieges are so laggy you can't even load players or the mini map freezes. All of you people complaining wiz/witch is OP need to understand wiz/witch is only strong in group pvp and low-mid level grind spots. When it comes to end game farming like hystria or trying to defend our spots we get stomped on so don't complain about a class based around large scale, for the most part unless we out gear someone they can just and do bully us out of grind spots.

    Edited
     
    #7 LikesItRuff, Aug 25, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  8. Goobur

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    I never specifically said P.A. Makes the wit/wiz stronger. What it does is pigeon hole siege/nw guilds to play a specific way, and if you deviate from that method you lose. For the entire life of the game, there has been only 1 way to play, and that's to have P.A cycled while you attack. No other strategy works. It's more so important in this meta than it was in the last. It forces siege/nw guilds to prioritize witch/wiz's into the guild rather than recruit whatever class.

    My case is more to the point of the sum being greater than the whole. In the instance of witch/wizard, each spell by itself isn't overpowered,(except PA.) but when you add all the abilities and skills of witch/wiz together it becomes apparent how over powered they are. In most every other MMO, strong differentiating abilities are given to specific classes. Like how wow has a Priest class that can heal, A Mage class that can deal Damage, and a Paladin class that can tank / Give out a free bubble. But the witch in this instance, Has the Abilities of a healing priest, Ranged damage of a mage and a bubble of a paladin. Pearl Abyss could have easily separated these abilities and made 2 classes. Maybe even 3. A Melee battle priest type class, a Ranged/CC Mage class, A Tanky class with self a SELF P.A.

    Witch/wizards do have issues, but mainly in 1v1/ow scenarios, and typically only against ninja's, but they excel in every other aspect of the game. It irks me when witches and wizards want to be buffed in 1v1 and still want to be top dog in node/sw and scream nerfs for all the other dps classes that can kill them 1v1 and those same classes they want nerfed, are almost useless in node/siege. I would rather have a good 1v1 witch/wiz class, than 1 class rule the node/siege scene
     
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  9. Lemon Crush

    Lemon Crush Juicey_Lemon Witch 61 NA

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    They dont excel in all other areas of the game though. They aren't the best grinders, they aren't the best hysteria grinders, they aren't good in ow pvp, they are mid tier for small scale.

    They are literally only sought after for siege because of PA/heals... thats it. Every class can do better in the areas I mentioned above with the exception of maybe warrior/striker/tamer for pve.

    Remove PA, give us more mobility smaller aoe, faster casting and I would be happy.
     
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  10. LikesItRuff

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    Do you understand goober how easy it is for someone to screw up a wizards grind spot? Almost every class can come in and say spot taken and either kill us or out grind us. People think wizards grind fast all throughout our chars life span but even with our movement buffs we can easily be outfarmed because we can't cancel our skills and our teleport has a HUGE cooldown.

    When solo farming is how a lot of people make there money so for the one thing we ARE good at you have no right to complain.Wizards can't even compete on Arsha unless we have an INSANE gs of like 570 because again we get rofl stomped.

    Now I have said this and i will continue to say this, wizards DO have the potential to be a god tier class in 1 vs 1 and large scale but the amount of setup it requires is a bit tedious. A wizards biggest enemy is our own low HP pool and being grappled, overcome these two conditions and a wizard will destroy almost anyone. Most people follow sheeple builds and fail to fully understand the different options this game has available and with new content i see coming along with what we already have wizard will be OP soon enough just not now.
     
  11. Mattys

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    Witch or wizard ain't op, it's almost like opposite of it. We are getting killed constantly by ninjas, mystics and strikers and there's kinda nothing we can do. Witchardz are supposed to be good in node wars, so ofc we have aoe. You think we should be just running targets to other people even in node wars?

    They should rework PA that it gives less dp, but for longer time and only to the caster (witchard). It should give like 200 extra dp for 30 seconds and it would be totally fine and have same amount of cdr. Because it's kinda our only way to get in and do our skills and if we are lucky, we can get out too.
     
  12. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    People complain about NW/siege guilds reqruiting Wiz/Witch, this is not since those 2 classes are OP its simply that nobody want to play them for endgame. PA + Heal is very good for large scale, anything else we fall far enough behind that most people reroll to something that is not only usefull for 2hours each NW or god forbid you get a castle where your only usefull for 3(?) hours each week!
     
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  13. Blusurfer

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    I want to play a damage dealer, not a support class. Feel free to remove PA totally as far as I'm concerned. Seriously what difference would it make? How many face to face battles throughout history had a protected area facet? ZERO!
     
  14. TheYoda

    TheYoda TheJedi Tamer 62 NA

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    Cause no one with a brain wants to play a 'tarded brain dead class. Its ass and simple.
    Yet has the MOST Awakenings sold on the mp.
     
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  15. Mana_Mafia

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    And strikers, mystics, kunos, warriors, berserkers and valkyries.

    Lahns can be bad too.

    Any class with a grab has free wins vs us as long as we aren't 100+ gear score over them.

    I wouldn't say we "excel" at grinding, either. We're just capable grinders. Most classes are better at grinding than W/W when it comes to late game because our mobility is so lacking and we have terrible DPS.
     
  16. Atakarias

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    witch/wizards are not good in pvp, only on large scale pvp (node wars).
    that's the reason why the guilds want these classes
     
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  17. Plebza

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    The thing u could consider being OP is the dmg output they start to have at softcap AP, especially witches.
    Theres entire siege guilds build around that class. Its ridiculous how witches start to oneshot all of the non tanky classes from softcap Ap onwards just bc of how broken their dmg got again after the fixed accuracy on their flowskills.
    It may not be an issue in 1v1s but u can also watch alot of good/geared witches shitting on ppl 1v1if u enter BA.
    The real issue is that all other classes have been stripped so u just get randomly oneshotted by a witch/wiz in teamfights.
    They can ezly tp into a fight pop one skill and get 5-6 kills,wo putting in any effort, that can be considered as op.

    Also gear is a major issue if witchards outgear u it can be a real pain to kill them, u could also just die from desync.
    This could also be said about all other classes ofc, but with their sustain witchards are by far more annoying than other classes with above softcap gear.
     
  18. Crimson_Scarlet

    Crimson_Scarlet Shai 60 NA

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    Against anyone who BA s alot and knows how a class works and reacts is just and easy kill, block classes creep up slowly then grab and 1 combo, zoops move back and forth until kd then 1 combo, dk just runs around hitthing until dead, spam iframes , pew pew until fg is broken then grab kill thats 1v1 scenario , group fights flanks just get behind and kill them while there spamming aoes in front of them.

    Dont forget that even being softcap ap you only have the same dp as everyone else therefore you die just as quick if you 1 shot so can they.
     
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  19. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    Are you talking about 260+AP buffed with every buff known to mankind, fighting "softcap" players with maybe cron+draugh?
     
  20. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    coz they try it, dont feel op at all and sell the gear in frustration. :D
     
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