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What is the most OP PVP class?

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Rockett, May 5, 2017.

  1. Xenon

    Xenon Kallitren Ninja 61 NA

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    Honestly, with the pet changes stealthed in with echo pierce changes, I don't know where to put them for sieges. Tamers are really scary now. I went and fought a few tamers last night. It was crazy. Getting my hp torn up while they were cc'd wasn't fun. Even Void Lightning hurts now. They can jump into groups and just void cancel, letting their pets do work once their ap is high enough.

    I would go far enough to say that despite where I rank people in my own tier list, they're all viable in every pvp mode. They play different roles and aren't going to perform the same as other classes. With that said, some classes are overall just way too strong in sieges with the right set up. Some classes go from being really poor to having decent performance like say Ninja swapping to a more evasion style build will perform a lot better in large skirmishes because it replaces the defense in his kit and gives him more saving grace. With the pet changes, I would say Tamer is much better suited for backlining than Ninja now just because of her brute force. But Ninja will still be better for cannons and for attacking objectives because of stealth.
     
  2. flukeSG2

    flukeSG2 Tamer 62 NA

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    I did not see a all around spinner, I saw the tamer extend her hands outward, surrounded by black lighting slashes, followed up by the ninja using shift-q to get behind the tamer and get immediately stunned and followed up with an attack of it's own that took nearly 75% of the tamers hp away and saw heilang run through the ninja all at the same time. What clip where you watching? I'd love for that have been all around spinner, it would have easily explained away your magic heilang damage.

    How the **** are you so retarded?

    1. The tamer CC'd the ninja when he shift-q into it's void lighting first, it was able to move initially. Do you understand the concept, cause it doesn't sound like it and you are just spouting ******** again.
    2. The game shows where 1 attack came from, as I said the ninja jumped into the void lighting which is an attack and a CC stiffness and you can clearly see the ninja get CC'd as soon as he came out of it. And if it was't void lighting which it clearly was, and ended up being all around spinner, there were no forward damage indicators which there would have been forward damage from jumping into a spinning staff. Do you understand this concept?
    3. I've read various things happening on EU or NA that doesn't happen on the other. Sometimes they even have to shut down one and not the other to make small changes, just like recently. Do you understand this concept?
    4 and 5. You OBVIOUSLY don't know jack **** about tamers. Tamer is not OP right now, has never been OP in the entire history of the game. It was good at 1v1 in the start and it's currently sitting at the bottom alongside or below the other 2 evasion melee dps classes. Just because you get your **** pushed in by a tamer doesn't mean the class is OP. It just means the player is very good and has over come the obstacles of the class, or you just suck, or maybe both. Do you...you know what, never mind, you DON'T understand any of this lol.

    Just another person who gets beat by tamers and calls the class OP. Well, go switch out your gear and see how well you do, you'll be crawling back to your sorc in no time if all you are looking for is damage. The skill required to play a tamer vs sorc is enormous.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again for all the idiots who think tamer is OP. It's not. Do not confuse the skill of the person playing the class with the power of the class itself. There is a reason we have to wombo combo, because our skills don't do **** alone. Our damage is miniscule compared to all others. The people playing tamers who are beating you have mostly been playing the class since the game started and or are particularly skilled at combo dependent classes.
     
  3. Nexius

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    EVERYONE has to wombo combo is this what you mean when Tamers are weak? Srriously because you cannot press one or two abilities that you wont blow someone up? Most classes can't do that and yet there are many that are very strong (Valk, Warrior, Zerker,etc.) Why cant you put Tamer in such a tier in your mind, because you arent doing the damage you WANT to? Are you serious?

    You act as if Tamer has nothing going for it. Tamers are built around CC and single target burst. All you have to do is land one of your many lingering CC's and the person is dead. Yea sure you have to combo, but your cc's are able to be chained so well and so consistently that you have time to delete someone no matter how much AP you have. Thats the strength of tamer, near an unlimited amount of time to get off what they want in a 1v1 situation. You can COMPLETELY disable your target and do whatever you want. Now add the broken pet damage?

    Your damage is not minuscule compared to others, Tamers do a considerable amount of damage. I dont understand how the argument always comes to this when talking about Tamers to Tamers. If you say Tamer is strong you lost to a God Tier Tamer and as a result you are bad and mad. Everyone who plays tamer is god tier? I dont get it. You act as if we're implying fighting EVERY tamer ends the same. You act like everyone else who defends thier class whenever a valid strength is addressed. Doesnt matter which, Witch, wizard, Ninja, Kuno, Valk, Sorc, etc.

    You are quick to tell me what you can't do and never acknowledge what you accel at. Everyone doesnt outscale you, everyone doesnt perform better than you. Being particularly skilled at a class doesnt make you unbeatable and give your personal strengths to every other person who plays the class. I've met exceptional players from every class. I've fought ninjas I had the hardest time beating because they'd blow me up and never get hit. Am I on the fourms proclaiming ninja is the most OP untouchable class of all time? No You have to take SOME players who dont agree with you seriously because right now all you're doing is saying good tamers are just good. How is it we're a year into the game and you believe Tamers are still in the same state as when every rerolled from the class? They are FAR stronger and the difference between a tamer and a sorc for example isnt that great.
     
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  4. Chun-Chun

    Chun-Chun ChunChun Sorceress 61 EU

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    What i ment by peforming bad in siege is that it's not wizard/witch/dk tier. It peforms badly, just as sorc and the other classes. Yes, obviously, if you throw enough gear on any class to outgear the enemies, all will perform well.
     
  5. flukeSG2

    flukeSG2 Tamer 62 NA

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    Not everyone class has to combo and certainly none more than tamer. You think it's fair or even balanced that some classes as you said "press one or two abilities" to delete someone, where as a tamer has to rely upon landing a CC and chaining the CC's together in order to pin someone down and finish them? With all the evasion and resists going on, not every hit lands and not every CC takes hold. I guess you aren't familiar with how warriors are in game since you lump them with valk and zerk. But why I can't lump tamers in a tier with any of those three classes is not just because of the outrageous damage output, which to be fair valk and zerk can have but it's hard to achieve, but because of the damage resist. Tamers don't have a go to dp build. Sure we can stack dp, but it doesn't do the same thing as it does for those classes. Does that even need explaining? So it's clearly not in the same tier of those three classes no matter how you try and work it.

    It's also not even remotely true about being able to delete someone no matter how much AP we have, or having an unlimited amount of time to finish someone off. Try not to exaggerate so much.

    Tamer is a challenge, that's what it has going for it. Tamers can deal a great deal of damage by unleashing a flurry of skills, yes that is true, but we are so dependent upon as you said chaining our CC's to lock a single target down to finish them off. With as much evasion and resists going on now, it's not as easy as it sounds. One miss and we have to start all over again. It makes sense the argument always goes here when talking to tamers, because we know how it is. We see the other classes 1 or 2 skilling without having to rely upon a CC chain to finish them off, that's not balanced.

    I think you are misunderstanding most of what I said. Let's get it straight once again, of all the classes you could label as OP in this game, tamer isn't among them. You could just as easily put ninja and kuno alongside tamer in that regards. Now that said, does that mean any of those 3 classes can not perform exceptionally well? Absolutely not. Is it a much steeper learning curve? Absolutely yes. Which is why I said not to confuse the power of the class with the skill executed by the player. I stand by my assertion that a good tamer, playing on another class, would excel greatly. Never did I say playing a certain class makes you unbeatable. Of course there are exceptional players in every class, I never said otherwise. I'm not on the forum proclaiming that tamer is an OP class, the people I'm replying to are. How else would you label "good" tamers as anything other than "good"? I'm this far into replying to you and I'm wondering if you even meant to reply to me, because it's not making much sense honestly. We are a year into the game and I never said tamers are still in the same state, I think we were better at the start of the game, after all the awakenings have now been released, I feel that our scaling has been much lower in every aspect. Of course tamers are stronger than the release of the game, every class is stronger. Does that automatically put us in a better state? Not at all, as I said I feel and many tamers believe our scaling hasn't been on par with the majority of other classes in game.

    What I said in regards to losing to a tamer was a retort at others who say that tamer is OP and if I'm not OP I suck and should change classes. I can easily just turn it around and say the opposite, that if they lost they must suck and should change classes. So the irony is on you, talking about taking someone seriously.
     
  6. Xenon

    Xenon Kallitren Ninja 61 NA

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    1. What???????? Are you watching the same clip? The Ninja doesn't run into anything. You're seeing things. You're the one spouting ********!
    2. Rewatch the clip. Look for the red text back attacks above the Ninja's head as he's casting his ult. The tamer is in front of him, not behind him. The Tamer is cc'd. The Tamer casted All-Around Spinner before he got block jumped, which is why he ended up stiffed and ate an ult from the Ninja.
    4. I obviously know more than you do! You don't know your own attack animations, you don't know about directional blips, you don't understand the concept of back attacks, or.. what else am I missing here? You're so delusional! Tamer is not at the bottom of the 1v1 ladder! Please quit bdo and play another game that caters to your brainlessness, and where you won't complain about something that doesn't exist. We don't need more idiots like irrelevant running around, spreading misinformation and complaining about invisible concepts that don't exist. Actually, holy crap, are you an alt account for irrelevant or what???? Jesus Christ, this is cancer.
     
  7. Nyhver

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    How fair is it that such a class has an ability to do that despite having lower AP which other classes can't match?

    Ok, so you think that. Others disagree.

    This is a factitious argument. Classes innately have abilities that when done by unskilled and skilled players, miniscule or large will have results for better or worse, and that generic conceptual question was asked to which people replied. You're the only one who doesn't get this and ends up circling yourself with this

    People can say others only lose to a class because they're bad, and people can also say people only lose to a class because it's overpowered. Both are based on a multitude of things, but simply saying it doesn't tend to amount to much. You're the one that began asking about tamers being OP, because you don't see it and took the other perspective.

    I'd like you to tell me how skilled and knowledgable you are when you know all classes, their combos, animation cancels, along with damage ratios that'll lead you to statements such as "tamers have the steepest learning curve" or "no other class is as difficult as Tamer". You came out of the gate saying that only experienced people play tamers. You admit that there's player skill involved. Is the conundrum just that Tamers are the only skilled people and everyone else is bad? That's what you suggest.

    Player's having skill and a class being better or worse with two players around even skill is a very basic concept.
     
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  8. Ibirujo

    Ibirujo Ibirujo Tamer 62 EU

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    While I agree that Heilangs damage after the stealth buff seems very high, I see alot of misinformation beeing spread here. From my tests, the stealth buff only affects a few skills: Beast Rampage, Legendary Beast Dance, Allround Spinner and Command: Attack.
    When you use one of these skills, Heilang will do a combo attack and these combo attacks got a significant dmg boost.

    So what we see in the clip is the Tamer doing Allround Spinner and Heilang doing his combo attack. While the Tamer got stunned while attacking, at the moment he used the skill, heilang did his attack afterwards, which can easily tested by first using allround spinner and instantly canceling the ability with the q block. So the damage done could easily be avoided by not standing still or using an i-frame.

    If you ask a Tamer to let only Heilang attack you, you will see he does very low damage by himself.
    So while the combo damage is very high, the stealth buff / bug is not nearly as OP as the people say. Looking at the wizard pet on the other hand, dealing 300 dmg with ranged auto attacks, now that **** is op as he has to do nothing to let the pet attack.

    I can't deny, Tamer is very good in 1v1 scenarios, but you also can't deny the many flaws the class has such as i-frames / superarmor not working all the time, buggy grap, no block while walking backwards, taking extra 30% magic damage and others.

    While others often point out Tamers needing much higher skill to do the same as other classes as a negative aspect i can't agree with that, if I wanted to press one button and win I could play wizard/witch but these two are, atleast for me, incredible boring to play so I won't.
    Tamer is a fun class, strong in 1v1 and small scale and bottom tier in large scale pvp and I'm fine with that.
     
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  9. Beirut

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    for some reason the tamer became the new scapegoat of being op :D
     
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  10. flukeSG2

    flukeSG2 Tamer 62 NA

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    I'm not going to argue it again, I'll just say you are right and that is fine. However, if you are right and the tamer did use All Around Spinner, that is what killed the ninja. He shift-q right into it and Heilang attacks as part of the skill. The pet does not get CC'd the same as the tamer would and continues out it's part in the attack sequence started by the tamer. The pet is not simply running around and blowing people up at random, it is a built in part of the skill.

    It's not fair that we have to do it, not that it isn't fair that other classes can't, because they simply do not need to. So you don't misunderstand or try to misinterpret what I mean, I'm not asking for tamers to be buffed.

    You are right it is a factitious argument started by others spreading disinformation about the tamer class, I'm trying to correct that information.
    I did not begin asking about tamers being OP, because they are not, as I said I'm correcting disinformation about the class.

    And again you misunderstand what I'm saying, I'm starting to think it's intentional. I did not say only experienced people play tamer. I did not say or suggest that tamers are the only skilled players around. You are twisting my words to fit your own narrative.

    I had more to say but I'm simply just going to wrap up my participation in this thread now. The last post by
    @Ibirujo sums it up nicely.
     
  11. Xenon

    Xenon Kallitren Ninja 61 NA

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    All-Around Spinner is a frontal guard skill. The tamer is cc'd thanks to Block Jump stiff. The Tamer did nothing to him. It was all the pet. This isn't part of the skill because the skill itself is stopped in its tracks. It's a separate ability of the pet. And while, yes, it can't initiate this on its own, it can't be stopped once it starts. There is no counter to it. You just have to run or risk getting blown up.

    It's fine if the pet does damage on its own from a command. It's fine if the pet can cc you from a command. But for it to be able to do that level of damage to an evasion player, adding the fact that the ability didn't miss one hit, and can't be stopped, is absolutely broken. There are only two ways to avoid the damage, even when the tamer is cc'd: A. Stop your combo and gtfo, or B. Kill the tamer before the pet kills you.

    So essentially this presents a situation where the tamer is completely invincible with enough ap or enough dp something akin to Wizard in its current state. The only difference is that Wizard needs PA to reach demigod-hood. Tamer only has to spam LBD, Rampage, or All-Around Spinner while having decent ap or full evasion to accomplish this. You don't even need accuracy to accomplish this as other Tamers have told me. Balanced game. Tamer still isn't the most op class, though, I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Wizard is still more broken thanks to overall utility they have on top of their ridiculous damage and ridiculous ability to change builds and still kill large amounts of people. But they're getting up there.
     
  12. flukeSG2

    flukeSG2 Tamer 62 NA

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    You are baiting my reply and I'm biting. Argh! This isn't the Heilang Attack skill's effect of attacking the player. If you want proof of that just go ask any tamer to go to the arena, I promise you it does not do that much damage. The portion of the skill coming off the tamer can be stopped in it's tracks, yes, but as you said once Heilang starts it can't be stopped and Heilangs attack portion of All Around Spinner is what finished the ninja off.

    I absolutely promise you, that as a tamer you 100% need accuracy. I can not stress that enough. It is not remotely the same as a Witch/Wizard not needing to stack accuracy. I can log in and get you screenshots of my tamer, my level whatever proof you want. I can tell you I'm level 60, 222/209/269 stats, I have Tri Bheg's gloves, TET Liverto and TET Needle Trinket. So I'm missing the accuracy that Kzarka and/or Nouver/Khutum would provide me, I can absolutely assure you it makes a massive difference when you are fighting other end game players and is without a doubt necessary.
     
  13. Beirut

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  14. Xenon

    Xenon Kallitren Ninja 61 NA

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    Nouver doesn't give accuracy. How big of a hole are you trying to dig yourself into?
     
  15. flukeSG2

    flukeSG2 Tamer 62 NA

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    A smaller hole than the one you are standing in. If you don't have anything else to argue against now, I will finally be finished in this cancer thread. See you over in the "buff tamer" thread lol.
     
  16. Lenerlink

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    All right im going to say this and lets trully be honest...this game is...easy to play. Compared to fighting games class range from brain dead easy to i actually need to know how to "tech" hard. Most people here came from **** easy "action" games and some come from fighting games and some from mmorpg and all of you have different views on balance. Well as a person who "PLAYS" fighting games... im going to say this... You all need to GET GUD NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBS. every class has weakness that can be exploited and strength that can be either easily or hard to exploit. Complain ing about because it goes against your currents play style is normal for anyone but continue complaining without creating a strategy around it is... Just...stupid and my god whiney as ****. Nooooooobs. Ranger-high damage/long cooldowns Warrior-beter super armor activation/ soooo easy ro predict Wizard super high damage/ very very limited movement no skill cancel Witch high damage Has BWEBS/ very very very limitet movement no skill cancel more front guards to exploit the **** out of. I could tell you more about other classes but that is your ****ing k
    Job as a player off your class.
     
    #76 Lenerlink, May 15, 2017
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
  17. Izara DaOneAndOnly

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    Definetly DK and wizard.
    A lot of people put witch and wizz in the same basket but I don't feel like we are as strong, damage wise.
     
  18. Nyhver

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    It's as I said, you came out of the gate with the claim. I don't know if you worded it poorly or you had another circumstance prohibiting you from being articulate like being drunk. But if you look at what you wrote in this thread it is very easy to understand why others are frustrated with you. Even your later posts.

    What he's saying is different than what you're saying. What he did was make a little of a compromise but it sounds a lot more like what other posters were saying- details of the video aside. This isn't a trivial detail, what his claims are end up very different than yours. I don't know if you're shifting goal posts or just were not concise. Either way I don't have any animosity towards you, it's just that your statements are aggressive, all knowing and seem baseless.

    "no other class is as skilled as tamers" and
    Get a Maehwa with 180 AP 270 DP vs. any class of similar gear score, or 180 AP 240 DP, the damage on the Maehwa is going to be very lackluster. The move per hit is not very high unless the stars align and you need to combo properly, even doing risky combos for the chance of doing more damage (non awakened combos) the class has some cool advances techniques and cancels, too. This isn't exclusive to Maehwa or Tamer, at 180 AP a ninja or any other class is going to have to properly combo someone because that's low AP compared to most competitive PvPers, or at least the higher geared ones. You can play a warrior and shield block with your lingering super armor, there's still skill differences between those warriors who can only do that and better ones. Once you have a lot of gear you can crutch on it more and rely less on skill, but that's also because of the AP & DP ratio changes, you shift emphasis from combos to maximize damage to relying on neutral game footsies because you will die in perhaps two abilities- a vast difference to lower AP/GS values.

    Spare me or anyone else the "tamers do no damage" it's untrue. Maybe unless you're comparing it to the good scenario of witches & wizards using their AOEs on people that either hit them because of the lag/desync of the server or because their resourcess were exhausted and the wizard/witch placed it well or simply got lucky. Then, yes, most every class has awful damage compared to that. But, not exclusive to Tamer.

    I could send you clips of me getting mauled to death as I try to combo people and they resist CCs, but doing so wouldn't accomplish much, you and everyone should know the AP & DP along with skills change oddly and have power spikes. I'm not sure if I was clear enough on this point but a lot of this sounds like AP & DP values being weird rather than tamer problems specifically.
     
  19. Alrikmerc

    Alrikmerc Grimmdhal Tamer 62 NA

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    Eh...how did Tamer end up in this discussion? Because of a ninja getting mauled by Heilang? That's the argument? I'm not so sure.

    Class isn't for slouches, just like ninja. Takes a bit of work, and we rely on luck a lot as well. Heilang does what he wants. 75% of the time we have no say. :D

    If we could make him do whatever we wanted, then yeah...call it OP, as long as he's doing the damage he is now.
     
  20. flukeSG2

    flukeSG2 Tamer 62 NA

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