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When is guardian and wiz succ getting nerfed?

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Basic, May 25, 2020.

  1. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    ok, can we get witch-like +20% extra all resistances on at least 25% bsr and on s block when hit? and evasion debuff moved from aqua Fail to cataclysm. maybe return cc on bsr bolide also :p would be a nice start.

    since witch has these things, i doubt u can say we want to be 1v1 gods with those buffs?
     
  2. GuiltGuy

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    No you can't because you have grab. As I said, according to PA and this community, grab is op, they balance by taking into account of grab lol. Meanwhile this thread is about suc wizard though I don't know why someone likes to switch attention from succ wizard.
     
    #202 GuiltGuy, Jun 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  3. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    that "grab" is borderline useless. slow, unprotected, can be used after animation locked skills mainly making it very predictable. not to mention with how long our other spells take to cast bound on it is very unpractical (if u want to continue casting protected spells people will get up and kill u back, and its not like in group fights u can play aorund with preawaken unprotected kit if u by miracle do grab someone).
    would be better if grab could animation cancel our awa spells. would MAYBE make it a threat.

    (your argument is that its a gvg class. there that specific grab is terribad. not that its much better in 1v1 if people arent greedy)
     
    #203 WhySoSeeryus, Jun 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  4. GuiltGuy

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    Almost all grabs are protectless, slow, animation locked lol. It is not the problem of wizard. Why should wizard get a special treatment? Oh, I forgot it. You wizard should be treated specially because you are the son of your PA daddy. lol All grabs are dangerous compared with protected cc.

    And now do you know why you are annoying? Do forgive me because I am doing or I am imitating what you did, what you have done and what you are doing. How do you feel to have a mirror yourself? lol

    And grab is definitely useful in 1v1 since PA wants to balance based on 1v1 neglecting gvg perfomance lol, so yeah!

    Also I suggest you stick to the topic of succ wizard. You can cry hard in the suggestion section. Again bon courage for making your wizard a well-rounded god.
     
    #204 GuiltGuy, Jun 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  5. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    other classes can move and utilize the grab.

    well, u obviously have it out for (awk)wizards for some reason. maybe YOU could suggest how to make them better? we already agreed succ wiz needs nerf, but then u started trashing awk ones also.
     
  6. Hypotermia

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    Eh are you sure about grabs?

    Warrior - awk unprotected, succ protected - also grab is insanely fast and there is no way to counter it without massive luck.
    Ranger - awk unprotected
    Berserker - awk both
    Tamer - unprotected with quite bit range
    Valkyrie - unprotected
    Ninja - unprotected but generally used to combo with block jump making it very hard to CC
    Striker / Mystic - protected
    Lahn - unprotected but has biggest range grab paired with iframe/sa movement basically makes easiest to set up
    Guardian - protected.

    Basically there is fair share both unprotected and protected. From what i have played with protected grabs which are mystic and guardian. Mystic generally is not as fast as many other grabs. Guardian pre awk grab has smallest hitbox also bugs 50% of the time. Awk grab for guardian is just slow **** and short range.
     
  7. Eran420

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    so nerf guard/wiz/sorc/ninja/dk /lahn when ?
     
  8. GuiltGuy

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    Also don't forget kuno succ, which is even more broken than guard and thus needs an immediate hard nerf.
     
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  9. GuiltGuy

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    I would say it is fair to have an unprotected grab for awk warrior. For succ, after they twisted it so much why not leave it alone?
    Don't wanna comment ranger and Valkyrie and mystic lol
    Berserker is a typical class that can grab you to death. I guess this is the so-called "nuance" defined by someone and I do not see any big issue.
    Ninja/kuno are unprotected. Block jump is not that easy to use now. When you appear instantly, you do not have protection and any protected cc can take you down. Timing is important for both attacker as ninja/kuno or target as witch for example. Actually I play witch against ninja/kuno multiple times, not difficult to counter block jump+grab. They can be easily cced when they just appeared.
    Striker's protected grab is also very fair. Striker is actually the class that heavily relies on grab. Though I do not play striker myself, I feel like most combos of this class starts from the grab. Also as a half-tank class it is very fair for them to have a protected grab.
    Lahn is unprotected and that is also fair.
     
  10. Eran420

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    11 page and no single GM resp ..thats BDO
     
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  11. Rangomato

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    I like posts like this, where the creator clearly doenst even know the skills of the class he/she complains.
    I mean if you dont know the skills of your enemy its clear that this is a case of git gud.

    I am playing succ wiz, please explain to me where do i have so many protected cc´s ?
    I have two protected CC´s which are close range + Meteor.
    The rest is protected movement, which every class has.
    I dont see where this is a lot more than any other class?
    I think you are mixing up succ with awa wiz, taking the advantages of both and saying wiz is op.
    Succ wiz doesnt have a grab and less protection...
    Just take a look on the succ skill tree you have to decide between CC flow skill or protected flow skill.

    You are talking about disgusting damage? Who do you think will kill you faster, a fast class like ninja or wiz/guardian?
    The ninja kills you by the time the guardian or wiz is still casting so wtf are you talking?
    The only difference is the other classes using more skills.

    Just test it in arena and share a video showing that guardian or wiz is killing a lot faster than any other class with same gear....

    All classes that are top tier in group content are not top tier in 1v1.
    All classes that are top tier in 1v1 are not top tier in group content.
    This is diversty just choose what you prefer and stop complaining, you want your class to be good in everything right?
    From your description every class should be the same in the game.
    Just think a minute about what you are talking if this doesnt help....
     
    #211 Rangomato, Jun 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  12. Ahri-

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    Imagine asking for Dk/lahn/ninja nerfs
     
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  13. okaK

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    People rage about X class but really they are all very close if in the right hands with few exceptions. Ninja, sorc are just way above the "normal" class level. I've tested many classes, not all as I never got the drive for assassins. Some classes scale so much there is no point talking about them in terms of their trail dmg / sustain. It was posted here many times how sorc can dance and dance in a zerg and this is one thing that puts her way above others, her dmg also puts so much pressure that there is so little room for outplay it frustrates people. You can spam your SA and FG, try to trade dmg but she will come on top anyway, grabbing her is almost impossible if her player has decent pc. Ninja on the other hand exists only because of this massive dmg out of nowhere, poping up killing 10 ppl in a split of a second and getting out (even if he didn't get out that wouldn't make things fair) and he can do that so often that is makes him (or kuno) over the top.

    There are many things wrong but they don't make the game broken as much. Ive seen multiple guardians, warriors and especially valks tanking whole RBF teams dmg on their buffed shields while most of them have so much burst. Like its a tank but valk can kill you faster or as fast as a Sorc ( a DPS class ). Witchards have their own issues, mainly awk ones. Lets be real Super Armor is not enough to survive nowadays, and they have Teleport (the only i-frame) like every 7 seconds (Guardian grab CD), while other classes got 1 or 2 seconds CD on theirs sometimes multiple i-frames. Wiz and Witch gets locked in their animations and thats just a feast for all the hyper-mobile classes out there.

    Other classes also have their ups and downs. DK's i-frames are filled with gaps, same as Tamer's, some make up for this with enough FPS but others can't and struggle. This could go on probably, problem is people make their problems look bad and dont really think how it is to be on the other side. Who knows maybe ninjas have issues, but they know they are stronger than avg. and how this community works so they keep shut. Sorcs on the other hand can QQ all day, maybe just because there are so many sorcs out there and the skill lvl differs so much.
     
  14. sajdas

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    while the shield classes does have higher block value (probably because of passive/active DR buffs or just higher block scale), they cant tank a whole rbf for more than few seconds.
    guardian have easier time as she combine a lot of offensive super armors and have 3.5 i-frames skills (disdain, frost slide, infernal nemesis and the 0.5 for frigid wind flow).
    in black desert there is no tank role or dmg/dps role. there might be front lines, flankers and support if you really search for roles but in that case, a front liner should have high damage to become a threat.

    i have seen enough classes "poping up killing 10 ppl in a split of a second" this is mainly a gear gap issue and not unique to ninja (or kuno) at all.
    sorcs can dance around in zerg but usually die once she start to attack (not to mention she is limited by stamina and shards). i do admit her i-frames quite overtuned though
    ninja (as many assassins) are strong duelists but very average or less "group killers". also its very depend on which ninja you talk about:

    awak ninja - protected with i-frames and frontal guards while moving but vulnerable on 90% of his damage and engage skills. (blade spin, illusion of restraint and katana shower are the only protected skills and smokescreen is the only protected engage)

    succ ninja - lack frontal guard, doesnt even have S-block and mainly works on super armors with gaps (half of his super armors require the condition of using unprotected skill before them), but have high dmg, with good radius aoes while being super armor if used correctly (but again, have the flaw mentioned earlier), which make him average or less in group fights but great skirmisher for smallscale battles.

    tamers real i-frames (not the WW semi i-frame of course) are fine, leaves dropping and flow gust are quick, on demand i-frames and act as they should and she also have tree climb which is one of the longest i-frames in the game as long as used properly.
    dk i-frames indeed have gaps, as many other classes i-frames: ninja/kuno ghost step, archer tactical strike, musa chase and evasion shot, guardian disdain, valk sidestep, and the list goes on and on.
     
    #214 sajdas, Jun 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  15. okaK

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    I agree

    You see, you have the knowledge and your post brings value to those who just say X class is op because I think so and thats all.
    You've even further shown how classes struggle and that it's not all black and white.
    Gear gap is a different issue that probably will never get addressed as PA doesn't want under geared players.
    Just to remind people, renown score was implemented for NEW PLAYERS as said by PA.
    Renown Score that gives to a 209 AP player a bonus of 30 -> 14% while a 309 AP player gets another 200 -> 67%.
    Maybe I just can't see how is this beneficial for a new player.

    In my post I've just stated that there are just few things that make some classes with little room for an outplay.
    One can say its about team play or better positioning in grp pvp, but at the end if a ninja wants to kill awk witchard, he will even if its a great wiz/witch, but they can't do the same. They can place lava/poison pools or spam AOE CCs in SA but it may not be enough. Such disproportions of effort to achieve something is what makes some classes not balanced. If a sorc wants to bait important skills from a group of people, she will because they have so limited options, run ( use cd on mobility skills ), try to sustain her dmg with even more skills used, and she can stay there for looong. If there is no opening for her, she can run but her team or guild can easily finish the job. And its not like she gets punished for doing so, she can come back in a matter of seconds after regaining stamina / cooldowns.
     
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  16. sajdas

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    i do agree with most of those points, i think sorc i-frames are overtuned and should get some minor reworks but that will be hard since all her kit works around them.

    if that was a ref to stealth you are right, although concealment have gone through heavy nerfs in the last 2 years, it is still 1 of the best skill to easily get a kill/s while the enemies are not aware of you at the moment
    although in 1vs1 condition with out stealth, witch awak does have outplay potential against a ninja which cannot be repeated consistently and she does so mainly with her pet cc (better with the lightning pet), slow debuff and good timed protected cc such as voltaic pulse, earthquake and even absolute frigid fog. but yeah, witches are not realy suited for 1vs1 scenarious or ambushes if the enemy know what he is doing. i guess you can say that this is the price for being a strong utility class in group fights but i think they need to make magical evasion i-frame once atleast every 3-4 sec for witches/wizards (atleast the awak version)
     
    #216 sajdas, Jun 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
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  17. Crimson_Scarlet

    Crimson_Scarlet Shai 60 NA

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    Comming from a siege guild perspective as well from the guardians within tend to agree with this as well , with the meta for zerg vs zerg changing most frontliners have been hinted towards playing guardian for the fact that its op asf or reroll succ wiz for the same reason.

    Currently on NA anyways that is, the major composition of siege classes are 40-50 (preferably more) casters , followed by guardians , zerkers then flex classes and 2-3 shais. Those who play another class for nodewars make alt wizards for PA bots and more damage not witches since succ wizard tends to out perform witch.

    Now the Guardians op ness stems from its damage out put and shield strength but then there is also its debuff skills to speed/attack/cast , slows , -ap/dp that stuff all adds up and combine that with its simplicity not much skill is required just like holding shift+q as a PA bot and healing and now succ wiz also does more damage and can get around better.

    Though in saying all that about guardian just like any other class that likes to sit in block once grabbed they re dead like everyone else and skill animation wise is pretty slow, succ wiz on the other hand and especially a geared one at that is pretty broken in terms of damage,utility,manouverablity were as the witch variant gets **** on even though its nearly the same with skills.

    Im not going to exclude witch from the opness and nerf list either since zerg vs zerg meta revolves maily around the usuage of PA which the class has and yes im a witch main.
     
  18. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    hows awaken wizards numbers in na sieges? :D




    [​IMG]
     
  19. Crimson_Scarlet

    Crimson_Scarlet Shai 60 NA

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    Awaken wiz is a dying breed
     
  20. Basic

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    You just answered yourself regarding protected cc's.
    If ninjas kill you while you are still casting you either have no gear at all or you are fighting players way above your gs.

    Im not going to bother with more crying Guardians or Succ wizards anymore this is my opinion that i happen to share with a lot of other players.
    You have your own opinion and thats just how it is nothing i say is going to change that.

    Btw did you just happen to create a profile today and stumble across this post ? this is the only message you've written anywhere on the forums so i have a very strong feeling you're that ''manamafia'' guy. i could be wrong but its a little bit sus :')
     

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