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Who to blame? The Company or the Customers.

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Strycer, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. Strycer

    Strycer Kunoichi 61 EU

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    I had an endless discussion with a guild m8 about this topic.

    The Question is simple and related to the recent patches:

    Who to blame? The Company or the Customers?
    It is obvious that both are fault. The Company for releasing such stupid updates and Cash Shop related Items. And the Customers who are continuously buying those stuff.

    But who is to blame more?

    My opinion was that the Customers are to blame more. Simply because they keep buying those stuff and giving and 'indirect' feedback to the company telling them "oh, they like it, lets make more".
    It surely is a shitty move from the company to think in such a way but keep in Mind that this is a business and if the money is flowing then it works despite the moral thinking and if they care about their Playerbase.

    So to summ up: All the company is doing is offering a product, they are not forcing anyone to buy those products. The Customers are those who are willing to pay.
     
  2. Eynix

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    While this is true, this is a shitty way of seing things. Games company should work at the improvement the entertainement value of their products, not building the greatest cash machine the gamer world have ever seen. BDO is not the work of love, it's the work of greed. And that's the problem here.
     
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  3. Escapism

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    The customers are at fault for buying things they like and can easily afford?

    Rich people should just stop buying things to demonstrate against capitalism, until every company gives away the latest phones, tv's, clothes ect. for free to everyone. Because everyone wants them too but some just cant or dont want to afford them? Makes sense.

    Maybe i should also stop eating because some people in other places are starving and cant afford food, maybe if i stop eating, companies will produce and sell more & cheaper food in third world countries.


    You can hate on p2w as much as everyone else, but you cant stop it, there is no point in demonstrating against it, as we tried multiple times in the past in bdo... The only thing you accomplish by not taking part in it, is falling behind. Might as well just give up and quit at that point instead of trying to fight for a more equalized battleground and less p2w.

    Yes customers are the stupid ones here in this case, spending thousands of dollars to enhance a few pen items in an almost or soon-to-be dead game, but thats another topic.
     
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  4. Strycer

    Strycer Kunoichi 61 EU

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    I am not trying to demonstrate against it or convincing those 'rich' players to stop buying Cash Shop Items. I am well aware that this will change simply nothing.
    My concern here is about the people who are spending their 'hard worked' money which they should cause it is their right, but without thinking what it could mean.
    It doesn't even need to be BDO related by supporting cash shop p2w Items through purchase.
    What about for example a new phones which was created by Children under horrible circumstances. I know I know, there might be a lot of Products related to that and perhaps even myself have bought such kind of a product.
    But what about if this is really known and absolutely 100% confirmed?
    Do I buy a Weapon from a company that supports War (off course they all support it) I mean like even making it Public and advertising itself with it?
    Do I buy some fancy ivory product to support the hunters?

    It's just this "I don't give a ****" attitude that bothers me and what the real Problem is.
    Sure u can't always 100% exactly know what does that means when you buy it. But if it really is well-known to everyone like you don't even need to reasearch what happens when you buy it.... then why do people still purchase it? Cause they don't give a ****?
     
  5. Rayin

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    That's a really narrow-minded comment here.
    The only Customer's fault is that most in here defend any sort of introduction as "convenience", a term many made up to hide the advantages that certain Cash Shop items give. If it doesn't give you a full end game set, then for many is just convenience.
    Doesn't matter if at the end of the day this and other items do not provide you the BiS gear per se, they anyway cut a huge amount of time, resource, frustration and cater you right there where the game wants you to be, therefore "convenience" in games shouldn't exist at all.

    Games should be fun, there should be no convenience even for those who works 12 hours, because they should be eager to login in just to have fun even for 1 or 2 hours per week if they can play that. "They" shouldn't be "forced" to buy this or that in order to skip this or that, to resort to the "convenience" of Cash Shop items in order to fully enjoy a game.
    Convenience is something that you can find in Supermarket when a product isn't bought within a certain time span, so you buy it cheaper or you buy 4 slightly discounted pieces and pay it less than you would upon buying the single piece.
    In gaming "convenience" is a term used to hide intents and a statement that says "We managed to play around the laws and come up with a product that servers the purpose to gain more money, give a Premium benefit to some and not piss you off the rest of you too much"

    This is where the gaming industry is now, especially in Korea. Pick a Korean game, see if it didn't have any sort of shady item or aggressive micro-transactions, you won't find a single game that from their land didn't go full ham at some point.
    Spending money for games is fine, i personally supported some other games i played because they were less aggressive or had for real optional stuffs that you could buy and they wouldn't impact the gameplay of anyone, including the person who bought those items. This what games should be like, it's not a race about the fittest, they shouldn't play with your addiction nor hire team of lawyers to play around the laws of each countries.

    Industries are just playing with the laws and with us, not giving us something to play with: a law against gambling is released, they find a borderline way to make you gamble and take your money. They play with your frustration more than your entertainment.
    And the Customer's fault lies in here, when users like you and me that aren't paid to defend a Company's business, still make their mouths run defending it blindly as if in this way at some point the Developers of that game will reward their trust improving the overall quality of the game, increasing their productivity to reward their efforts.

    It's up to us to say "No" to those practices, yet some of us stands in front of a Multi-billionaire Company and fight with others discussing their RL, their intentions, their disposable income, their behavior towards an hobby. Who should side with others instead sit at the conference table with no decision-making power and call his/her similars "Parasites" or simply justify stuffs saying "they help me to save time and enjoy the game more".

    tl;dr spending money to support your hobby - be a game - is fine, defending blindly a SH and its practices because you think that they're helping you with "convenience" items when the convenience doesn't exist and shouldn't exist in the game industry, is stupid.
     
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  6. United_Strafes

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    The company of course. They know they don't have any real content, so they HAVE to keep players going after the carrot on a stick.

    There's literally nothing but gear. The housing system is trash, no cool outfits and cosmetics to go for, no cool mounts, no cool weapon skins. It's literally nothing but better gear to get better gear to get better gear to get better gear.
     
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  7. FunkD

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    It's PA's bad for not seeing the forest for the trees. They can't get it through there thick skulls that there are more idiots in the Western market who would pay $1,000 bucks for a stupid rare horse skin that makes your horse fart rainbows while it runs or some **** before they'd pay $1,000 bucks to RNG a PEN.
     
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  8. Kurano

    Kurano Kurano Berserker 63 NA

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    At this point, the customers. Earlier on in the games life I would've said the company.
     
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  9. Atron

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    Customers!

    P2W patch drops and instead of having huge protests, gatherings and quitting the game based on broken promises we have an influx of players new and returning.
    Grinding spots are packet in Valencia, Kama and Cities full.
    I hardly find a place to grind in peace .... a week ago i was basically alone everywhere i went.

    Then i fire up twitch and after months i see Lacari streaming, Granted it was blow up equipment stream but still.

    Enchanting fails/successes are rolling 24/7 from random different people and so on.

    Basically game is 60% more alive than before P2W patch and it disgusts me to a point i started to hate my fellow players that are blatantly melting their €-s and blowing up that gear.

    People want P2W and we on forums are in deed a very Vocal Minority.
     
  10. There are people who are willing to buy stuff from pearl shop, I guess they can afford it, they don't think it's a waste of money. These people will keep buying stuff until they'll stop enjoying this game for a reason or another. They'll quit and move to another MMO. The company will keep trying to make as money as possible until the game dies, just like almost every other MMO out there. It's business, nothing more. We can't ask people to stop buying stuff for other people's sake or the game itself's sake cause they won't and I don't blame them, it's a game, it's entertaining and they are spending money on it in order to have more fun, nothing weird or wrong. Guys, it's a game and it's business, that's pretty much all.
     
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  11. Alicia Dominica

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    Really. Yet another double-standard when it comes to spending money on games and the p2w-phobia that has gone to the extreme since the most recent patch. As always, this matter boils down to time versus money. Since you are so concerned with the money-part, let me offer a change of perspective and talk a bit about the time resource:

    Are you aware just what kind of advantage you can get in this game (and others) by playing it all day long? Uncontested grind-spots during the average work-hours, attending random boss spawns at your convenience (when they weren't fixed yet), micro-managing worker-empire all day long, grinding, sea-monster hunting and what not for hours. But that is fine because these people "worked hard" for it, right? Well, here is the thing: There are two common archetype that would be able to actually do this, one of them is being a full-time student and the other is living on social welfare. How are these two "life-styles" being financed? Correct, through taxes from businesses, the rich and the general working population. Or at the very least their parents.

    So, let me ask you, from what kind of moral high-ground are you trying to argue against people spending money on this game, while for a full two and a half years the game has been dominated by thieves? I say thieves because since you are so concerned with people spending money without thinking, well, what do you make out of people spending their time and other peoples money (taxes) playing video-games all day abusing a social system that was created to help people in need? It really disgusts me to no end when some simpleton SJW chooses to get all upset about whales and p2w, but has been silent about the matter of "no-lifing" in this game for all this time. If you want to put the blame on something, at least get your facts straight.
     
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  12. Factorial

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    i blame pearl abyss for being greedy and using abusive money grabbing tactics.

    to me, bdo is probably one of the greatest mmo made with a few lacking qualities that can be EASILY fixed.

    however, pearl abyss is now part of the scum of the earth because of the tactics they are using on weak minded, no self control people.

    i don't mind them making money because at the end of the day, they need to keep the lights on and turn up a profit. but to do it in such a dishonest way is disgusting.

    because of this dishonesty and greed, i won't touch another pearl abyss product ever again. the only reason i am sticking with bdo is that i genuinely enjoy the game. i don't care about having the best gear anymore in mmos. i am just here for a good time 1-2 hours day which makes me immune to their casino traps
     
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  13. Maginha

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    So what and why are you playing?
    What brought you to spend x amounts of hours in this game?
     
  14. Wollbert

    Wollbert Witch 61 EU

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    the world does not revolve around you. it only shows that enough people are ok with it and buying it, even if you dont like it.
    it is not the players fault that the company rather serves the one with a bigger pocket. but there are good alternatives for the poor ones.
     
  15. zhagsten

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    The good old blame shift. But this isn't League of Legends, stop blaming your teammates.
    Are you bargaining the guilt? Like... wth man.
    Customers don't have a choice. If I spend money, does that mean I approve? Not really. If I don't spend and the game dies, is it what I wanted? How can you call that a choice? PA makes all the choices. For us, it's that... or nothing. It's the absence of a choice.
    If there were multiple resellers for BDO in my region and they had their own offers, then yeah, I would have some choice. But currently if I want to play BDO, it can only like PA says and nothing else.

    Not my choice, not my fault.
     
  16. United_Strafes

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    Action combat, good graphics, fun classes.

    Just came from over 2 years in BnS quit that game because of p2w and ridiculous grind (same thing I'll probably do here except now I know to quit while I'm behind). Know of another good action combat game? I'll be happy to go try it out. Don't say TERA either, it has 0 content.

    What kept me playing? Well I've only been playing again since launch (lasted about 4 days at launch) about 2 months, you remember those first 2 months? When the game was fun, progressed at a reasonable rate then bam, you hit the progression wall HARD? That's where I am now.

    I'll end up quitting I spent 2 years in a Korean trash can I know EXACTLY where this game is going and I know that it's better just to quit, because it's only gonna get worse...not better.
     
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  17. Maginha

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    Im really sorry that this game has made such a disapointement on you, that feels bad.
    If you think it has no future, quitting is obv best and i wish you good luck and a lot of fun (the reason why play games in the first place) with your next adventure
     
  18. United_Strafes

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    Oh I don't THINK, I know.

    Exact same thing happened the last 6 months in BnS, they knew they couldn't keep new players around so their ONLY course of action was to go full on P2W and hope the whales can keep the game going another year.

    Knowing what I know now I would have never even started playing this game again, not a chance.
     
  19. Nubek

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    Both of them.
    They are greedy MF, and all of you are morons to keep playing the game.
     
  20. Maginha

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    Boohoo boohoo, insult booohoo, ggwp
     

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