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Why are pre-orders rich player biased? And why is trading so limited?

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Akudakatsu, May 4, 2017.

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Which of my suggestion do you agree with?

  1. 1. I agree with none of them.

    15 vote(s)
    53.6%
  2. 2. I agree with the pre-order suggestion.

    4 vote(s)
    14.3%
  3. 3. I agree with the free market suggestion.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. 4. I agree with the trade suggestion.

    1 vote(s)
    3.6%
  5. 5. I agree with (2) and (3).

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. 6. I agree with (2) and (4).

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. 7. I agree with (3) and (4).

    1 vote(s)
    3.6%
  8. 8. I agree with all the mentioned suggestions.

    7 vote(s)
    25.0%
  1. Akudakatsu

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    I've read a few posts regarding the marketplace and trading of this game, and combining that information with my experiences I have the following suggestions for the current systems in place:

    Note: I've decided to list the issues first (by number), then provide suggestions afterwards (relating them by number).

    Marketplace:
    Issues:
    1. The pre-order system is rich player biased, it favors those who bid the highest, not those who bid first, which goes against the whole "pre-order" logic.
    2. There is no free hand of the market, because items have artificial price limits despite their high demand, as noticeable from being constantly out of stock and high sales numbers.​
    Aside:
    Before I go into the suggestions, I think the tax is well implemented because it limits market manipulation by the rich (something I have done in other games after I became rich to keep growing my wealth). But the pre-order system and the lack of a free market favors the rich, so the unbalance remains.​
    Suggestions:
    1. Split the pre-orders 80/20, so that 80% of the time the item goes to the next person in line, and 20% of the time it goes to the highest bidder, this way bidding high still gives the player a better chance for an item that is in high demand. The percentage can be decided based on collected data and not this suggested one.
    2. Allow item prices to rise as long as they keep selling out, so demand and supply rule market prices, rather than arbitrary price limits, because there is no way 'Standardized Timber Square' is worth 24,255 to players who are clearly bidding far higher to acquire it. This way every item's price will stabilize to its actual value to players. Notes: (1) Delay the rise and fall to daily/weekly increments/decrements to prevent a bubble/crash. (2) Have an absolute minimum price for each item to prevent crashes during cases of market flooding, can use the in-place minimums for convenience. (3) No need to worry about maximums because a high value item will draw more people to selling that item.​

    Player-to-Player Trading:
    Issues:
    1. There is no complete player-to-player trade. Not having this is completely non-immersive, example, "Hey, I got this item that's perfect for you, now let me put it on the market so you have 1/n chance of acquiring it due to its demand." Where 'n' refers to the number of players wanting that item, and watching the marketplace like hawks.​
    Suggestions:
    1. I understand the reason behind this was to prevent gold sellers, and to make players earn their keep, but my solution can keep both in check and still allow trading. Simply make trades a private marketplace transaction. Trades are one-way (the initiator puts up item, the other can only put up silver for that items value), and treat it just like the market, including the 35% tax. It can't be abused because the items and silver have to be traded at marketplace prices and trading can be restricted to cities to allow the use of warehouse to warehouse trades (for large quantities of silver), or just allow gold ingots. Items don't have to be bound to players because nothing is traded for free, everything is earned, and socializing, joining guilds, running with parties, etc. has a legitimate benefit.​

    Of course I'd like to know other players' opinions, so just post your thoughts below.
     
    SeegiScythe, Rilez and Crystal Star like this.
  2. Shadow Phantom

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    I agree with it all! not being able to trade freely is an unnecessary block that takes away from the game experience, and it even contradicts the "realism" that BDO is so desperately trying to achieve with everything. It is not fun nor does it work to really balance anything, most of it is just a con without any perceptible benefit to the game or the players.
     
  3. Rilez

    Rilez Archer 62 NA

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    Agree with this. I think no player to player trading is the biggest problem, it's a vital feature in all MMO's and the game needs to figure out a way to implement it, it's been too long.
     
  4. YuukiSaber

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    Do you even know what definition of bidding is?
     
    Taj, Le_Flemard and Hakazumi like this.
  5. Niepokalanek

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    I already see too many ways to abuse your suggested mechanics. Totally disagree. Current system keeps the game healthy. In terms of fixed prices, the community is not smart enough. There would be chaos
     
    Le_Flemard, Hakazumi and Hennyman like this.
  6. Akudakatsu

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    I used the word bidding because that's what placing a pre-order is called, but a bidding system and a pre-order system are not the same thing, either call it a blind auction (what it is) or make it a functioning pre-order system.

    Can you explain how people can abuse the system? Please elaborate rather than making vague statements that don't explain the flaws of these implementations. Also, what relation are you creating between fixed prices and lack of people's intelligence. A free market doesn't require intelligence as demand and supply will mostly determine the price of all items, and people as usual will always buy the cheapest option, but scarcity will still raise prices.

    Edited because my first draft may have been a bit rude.
     
    #6 Akudakatsu, Jun 6, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  7. Hennyman

    Hennyman Warrior 61 EU

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    I think the only problem with the current marketplace is the fixed prices of items. If they implemented a better fixed price range that actually fluctuates with supply and demand, the marketplace would pretty much be perfect
     
  8. Zelxski

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    I think the supply and demand pushing up the prices can be exploited. Sort of how the rich buy out the cheaper items on the AH and then resell it at a higher price. What is stopping someone from using a bot to be the first to bid over and over on a item to resell and push the price up to crashing market prices?

    This is the only MMO I have seen where even as a new player people can still buy the armor they need. The market isn't selling everything most people need for 999,999,999+. Allowing trade is bad, people will start selling cash shop items for armor like they do in other games whose market may as well have crashed.

    These two issues are the biggest issue to your suggestion.

    I do like the idea of bidding first though, as long as it doesn't cause prices to rise, I don't see anyone exploiting it. You can bot all you want, the price isn't going to change, so you are just wasting your time doing nothing. Buy what you need and get out.
     
    Hakazumi likes this.
  9. Akudakatsu

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    It's a valid concern, but you're ignoring the 35% market fee (15.5% w/ value pack), which requires a low enough buy price and high enough sell price, while also taking into account that rising prices attract more players engaging in the business of that specific item. And remember I mentioned imposing a timed limit to prevent fast rises and crashes in market prices. One other thing is Hennyman's suggestion, have an ultimate roof, but more room to play with supply and demand of items.

    You also ignored the limits I imposed on trading, it's basically a private marketplace transaction (even market prices are used), no different, people can already sell cash shop items on the market, now they can do it directly to someone specific, it doesn't add any extra benefits except being able to trade (sell) privately to someone for ease of getting the item to a friend rather than a stranger. Also trading is not bi-directional, in a single trade, only one person can provide silvers and the other, items, ensuring it follows market rules (decided by who initiates trade).

    Edited to fix a link.
     
    #9 Akudakatsu, Jun 6, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  10. Hakazumi

    Hakazumi Ranger 58 EU

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    Sure, buying kzarka for 500m instead of 100m is such great idea
    I really hate when players can decide price of their item
    non. bdo example - costume set worth ~200milions (in game currency) can cost you 2bilions or more just because it's precious to its owner

    it's ridiculous, bringing this to BDO will only ruin it and make a lot of players quit the game because they can't afford items they wanted and so on

    +
     
  11. Solsi

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    Just doesn't work to have a queue or line system for pre-orders. To much imbalance between supply and demand.

    There's basically hundreds and hundreds of people with pre-orders on high demand gear&upgraded accessories and in many cases only 1-2 listed each week.

    So that system would be even more unfair than items going to the highest bidder. Because new players would have to wait over a year to complete certain pre-orders lol. Which basically means they cant get it at all using pre-order, if 80% of all items goes to some queue for veterans. At least now it's same for everyone, the one willing to pay the most gets it.
     
  12. Akudakatsu

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    But people aren't deciding the prices like in other games, the market place rules would still decide the rise and fall of items, item prices won't get that high unless everyone was willing to buy it at that price (hence free market), the seller doesn't determine the price, the buyers do. And all prices will stabilize at a point where even newbies can make money using the marketplace more easily by selling items like Standardized Timber Square, for which people are already paying 10x it's listed price via pre-orders. They can then use that to purchase items more easily. In a free market things stabilize at a price that works for everyone. High prices that don't sell will drop the item's price till players want to buy that item. And once again, Hennyman's suggestion about having a maximum limit to prevent insanity can be used to prevent the prices from going crazy, but still allow greater market freedom.

    The 80/20 was a suggestion, it could be 50/50, favoring, in terms of probability, the highest bidder as often as the person next in line. Also, not all items fall under that definition. One other thing is, sellers don't make any extra profit from high pre-orders, which I believe they should, then if the system was a blind auction, the sellers gain something from the bid war on those items. As it stands, newbies don't make any extra money from high demand items and since their price isn't worth the time, artificial scarcity is created because no one wants to spend time acquiring said item.
     
  13. Luciferia

    Luciferia Kunoichi 28 NA

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    While I agree the terms are misused, its because its a KR game. Functionally Pre-order is not literally that. it is a bid. its intended to be a money sink. it is supposed to go to the rich players.

    The "bid" system, is lotto system is for folks who can't win the preorder/bid.

    I don't see them changing this. There isn't really a strong reason to. It functions really well as a gold sink, while leaving room for everyone to have a chance at buying the items at market controlled prices.

    I do think their controlled pricing is heavy-handed. It could be tweaked more, but that would require someone paying attention to all the items that would be impacted from a single change. They have already done this to a degree, but I guess they don't feel comfortable allowing for more wiggle room.

    They have avoided a few of the common pitfalls that most MMO markets have. I think they have accomplished their goals , even if it has areas that players would like to see improvement.
     
    Hakazumi likes this.
  14. Padio

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    If demand and supply system does not apply and "private marketplace trading" is allowed, people can sell stuffs, such as T8 perfect horses (I just make an example), with price of marketplace + something outside the game, such as real cash, because the market price is so low while the demand is so high, which is definitely not allowed. If D&S system applies and "private marketplace trading" is not allowed, people can sell some stupid stuffs at crazy price for something outside the game, such as a stone for a billion and few hundred bucks, which is also not allowed. If both allowed, people can p2w in both ways. And this is the benefit that people can have. In addition, 15.5% is not a lot for rich people who decided to p2w. BDO is not that much p2w. A master 10 trader vs 0 life skill pearl item seller, who makes more game cash?
     
  15. Eleot

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    To be quite honest, i'd love to see the implementation of a fixed Player to Player trade, so many instances where i wanted to sell a costume set to a friend/guild mate and it ends up going to another person. i mean... i still got my silver but eh. would rather the costume go to the intended person.

    and i've seen multiple people spout out about it making RWT/Pearl trades easier, it does but honestly there's nothing daum can really do to combat it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ still happens hourly even without this kind of system.
     
  16. shuizhu

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    I agree it all
     

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