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Why does everyone hate BDO's story?

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Anvilus, Jun 28, 2018.

  1. Joungf

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    I can feel your anger ...


    ... those arrogant elven ...
     
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  2. Eyes of Cimeies

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    Regardless of what is available for text/lore, a lot, like myself, simply don't feel that it delivers. It's sparse, fragmented, and trails off without really picking up or coming to a real conclusion. The lore is there. They give you reasons for doing what you're doing if you pay attention, but it fails to interest people in what's going on. Many people are aware of the story it is trying to tell, but aren't impressed with their ability to tell it. People start skipping after a while because it isn't coming together in a way that makes it interesting. Now I'm not saying they don't have a story, just, like many others are saying, that they don't make it memorable or stand out in a way that makes it seem worth caring about.

    It is great that you find it so compelling, but I mean if you're paying attention, then you should be able to see what everyone else is saying. If you have to go so far out of your way to figure out what the story is, you can't really blame anyone for not bothering to follow along.
     
  3. Corrus

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    Yeah just pathetic bdo ripped off the idea of kamasylvia from Bless online's Aqua elf/Sylvan elf lore and their tree of Life which was created by a goddess and almost destroyed, and the elven people Split into two factions (the dark and the good ones) while one group dedicated their existence to the tree of Life. Makes kamasylvia so much more lacking of unique idea and all.
     
  4. Joungf

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    ... Bright has also stolen it - the tree of life ...
     
  5. RageAgainst

    RageAgainst Mystic 61 NA

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    No issues here, I have no problem accepting how the developers created the game. Nor do I think of myself better than others because I play a game differently than them, unlike yourself.

    Yeah, comparing a video game to a gun...yeah I think you threw out any credibility you might have had going with that over emotional comparison.

    I don't PK people for "lulz". In fact, I rarely PK anyone at all. If I do, it's because I want the resource they have. It's why we have the open world PvP tool and why resources are limited. It's why there aren't instances in this game. There are ways in game to avoid being killed by other players and that is by not accepting the level 50 quest that comes with the warning of open world PvP. No one is entitled to anything beyond what the game allows. If I'm able to kill you in game, you've chosen to accept the warning and it is no longer unsolicited at that point.

    People who accept the way the game was designed, with Player Killing intended, are not in the minority. In fact even the majority of the PvE players accept the way the game was designed and they will have to deal with other players on occasion. I'm not asking anyone to play my way. Most already accept player killing is an intended function of the game, just the way the developer designed it.

    It's clear you are the one with issues trying to project them onto others, poorly I might add. Trying to take the moral high ground by decreeing that killing people in a medieval fantasy MMORPG is a perfect illustration of the issues you have, that and your gun analogy. Your problem apparently is that you can't distinguish real life from fantasy. Seek help.
     
  6. SevFFS

    SevFFS Kunoichi 62 EU

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    Well, Kuno is very authentic:

    Kunoichi: Her clan was slaughtered by a rival clan and she is the only survivor. She took a vow at her father's grave that she will master their enemies' weapon (Sah Chakram) and hunt them down to the very last one. And that she won't rest until "the moon turns pale and all else is covered in the crimson of blood".
    Little bit sad the enemy clan somehow was eradicated as well.
     
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  7. nolasigns

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    i think you confuse mechanics intended, for actual game play intended. But, that's to be expected. You're literally defending an idea that is a known game destroyer among other games that had game mechanics with intended purpose, but community driven to create other intentions.

    But, yes, dismiss real-life analogies, I expect that from someone without critical thinking skills to understand; no matter how digital the little games are, the community within is built by people from.....you guessed it, real life! And it's left up to that community, using REAL LIFE DECISIONS, to decide if they should use REAL LIFE ACTIONS, and click a button with their REAL LIFE finger, and impose their REAL LIFE DECISIONS on other people's gaming experience, that are effected in REAL LIFE, because rather your simple little under developed mind knows it or not...time...is REAL LIFE..

    The community of REAL LIFE people, have all but voted out the undesirables with shortsighted incentives, selfish endeavors, and radical destructive behavior out of their community. I have yet to see my kind of game play pushed to the back by an effort of the majority..

    Imagine my shock no one wants a small community pushing their game play into their own community, with total disregard to how it effects people in REAL LIFE. PKers by all definitions of REAL LIFE examples, are radical useful idiots that want instant gratifications, rather than real challenges. The ones that passively support them, are no better than a liberal in REAL LIFE welcoming it.

    "In fact, I rarely PK anyone at all." Then the post i made wasn't pertaining to you- YOU quoted me, which suggest the opposite. But your ad hominem among other logical fallacies is significant legitimization to one or both of two parts- Your emotional attachment to the topic, as well as my REAL LIFE comparisons to a liberal and a PKers. No logic, just raw emotion. With any luck, we can convince PA to release a pink vajana hat with 10% Karma gain for the useful idiots that thinks their gameplay should be a totalitarian rule over the majority that rejects it.

    ZOMG teh evil carebears will take away muh toys! QQ -name call- slam fist into keyboard and hope it winz- yet, it's not real life effective.
     
    #87 nolasigns, Jun 29, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2018
  8. RageAgainst

    RageAgainst Mystic 61 NA

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    Again with the projection. It's quite evident from the excruciatingly long rant who is more emotional over this.

    I'd like you to name one game that was destroyed because it featured player killing. This game has been running 3 years strong with player killing being a main component of the game and doesn't appear to be in any danger of failing due to it.

    Just because you play the game on a real life computer, doesn't mean the game itself is real life. If you clearly get so emotional over a game as you do, you should seek help.
     
  9. nolasigns

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    You're predisposition into this side debate we're having was an epithet and a non sequitur. That alone suggested to me you lack the maturity for an adult, non-bias driven, discussion. Your patterns are identical of those that cram their little fingers in their ears and lalalalala to the end, in hopes that i'll concede and run along. Your persistent use of "projecting" is along the lines of Argumentum ad lapidem, and your refusal to acknowledge analogies are solely because the analogy triggered your cognitive dissonance. You refused because it totally wrecks your narrative of "it's intended so it must be true" and you cannot argue against it. With that, you resort to totally unrelated mantras quipped with non sequiturs and ad hominem.

    If you had taken the opportunity to address your opposing views as an adult, rather than a child, perhaps your emotions wouldn't get the best of you, and a need to resort to another tantrum. At the very least, you'll live up to a creative username.

    Aside from that, let me pull another excruciatingly long rant that you only wish was emotional. Amazing how I accused you of something, your best defense is to attempt using it. Difference is, I have explained how I have no real emotional attachment to defend any-side of the debate. In fact, I said I'd live with whichever, just I choose to let the community be the factoring into what is considered intended, and what's not.

    You see, the thing you, and people like you, that run in here flailing your little emasculated arms in protest about never got a clue about is how FACTS become THEORIES and THEORIES become IDEAS then IDEAS are adopted by a COLLECTIVE that puts to IDEAS to use. Caps are to indicated heavy emphasis..

    Watch how this works.

    FACT= Devs implemented a game mechanic where we as players can flag up and kill other players at person will.

    PKer's theory= OMG it's intended that we all flag up and turn the game into a three ring circus of killing each-other and preventing newbs from having an enjoyable gaming experience.

    NonPker's theory= Devs wanted to give us the free will to build sandbox scenarios with the option of tragedy in player vs player resolve.

    The thing is, BOTH OF THEM ARE RIGHT. Not just YOU, not just non-PKers, it's up to the collective of people that conforms to theory one, or two as the majority. In the case of BDO, and in hindsight of certain PvP changes, as well as a pacifier for PK whiners---I mean a server--- it would suggest that the majority prefers to conform to theory two.

    Why are they theories and not absolute facts? Because NONE of those that believe in neither one has sat in the developer's think tank and actually had that discussion with developers. It's a community based social standard, and development. You here flailing your arms in angry fits just suggest to me you conform to theory 1- and anyone else that adopts theory 2- should go play another game (as you've said) which makes you the tiny little voice in your head that thinks only you, and those like you, are right.

    When theories become Ideas, then become collective action- things like Karmabombers become a movement of sort, just as mass senseless PK became a movement in other instances, games, what have you.

    Now by all means, tell me about this meeting you've had with devs to make you come to any conclusion as to what was intended. I'd like to hear about it.
     
    #89 nolasigns, Jun 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
  10. RageAgainst

    RageAgainst Mystic 61 NA

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    That fact is the only thing true in your statement. It's the only thing that matters and is exactly what I have said repeatedly. The fact you tell players in other threads to " suck it up or play a different game" only reiterates you project your own cognitive dissonance on to others, since you are clearly unable to control your own emotions and thought processes.

    Your "PK Theory" only furthers my point of your biased and emotional state when replying to my statements. In fact neither "theory" of yours is correct, which is what I've said but you've been too blinded by said bias and emotion to grasp that.

    Karma bombing is not a mechanic in game, it was not something designed by the developers. Player killing is. One is a movement by players, one is a mechanic designed by developer intended to be used by the players.

    So using logic I've proven your emotional rants to be absurd. Nothing I've said has at any point been inconsistent and every statement I make logically follows the last.

    Now, where is this list of games that was destroyed because it included player killing in it's design?
     
    #90 RageAgainst, Jun 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
  11. Joungf

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    exactly :D
     
  12. Reigne Irkalla

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    There are more than 2 elf factions in BDO

    ;)
     
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  13. JustSomeGuy

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    I like the bits of story it has. Its too shy to show it off and the quest chains get interrupted too often by the increase in power (levels; items, skills) demand between two quests to really get hooked to it.

    From reading the books, the lore, the creature and character backgrounds its pretty clear to me that BDO is a labour of love; the devs put a lot of hard work in there to make it as rich and detailed as possible.
     
  14. Zegram

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    The story and the lore are kinda 2 different things... the story that we go through is interesting enough I suppose I'n my opinion. I didnt think it was bad or great but it had interesting moments for sure.

    The lore though, the history and the world building and what not is quiet dense and pretty great even at times if you are the kind of person that diggs this kind of stuff. Its there if you want to look for it but its never really forced down your throat so thats entirely up to the player. If you wanna grind, get loot and become pimp daddy well go right on ahead.

    But if you wanna immerse yourself in the world, turn of music, turn up ambient sound, wear some headphones and dig deep, talk to characters, read books in the libraries and do side quests... you can tottally do that, its there, if you want it.

    Thats a great thing in my opinion <3
     
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  15. nolasigns

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    I'm biased? You literally picked a theory based on a fact- one theory, not both, as I did. You only wish to think that theory backed by a fact is the sole purpose of that fact coming to play. You can't provide any logic behind PKing other than it's just a game and it's fun to YOU-

    A list- here's a top of list shocker-
    BDO- all these PvP regulations being imposed are because of PKers and their pathetic pewpewpew everything attitudes. I suppose the devs "intended" to send a message?

    Add that to any game that suffered a P2W aspect, where PKer in god mode wrecked havoc on the game and or simply became unplayable due to a shift in gaming culture. L2 for instance, went years with player base policing. Eventually it changed and it depended on what server you end up on. Most any pure PvP servers that survive any amount of time has a by-line progression route. Not everything in open world, as BDO. L2 probably the longest running, the shortest running? Swordsman online. A grand ole 3 mos after release, PKers emptied the game faster than your logic fails.

    Now, let's give an example of your logic-
    "Karma bombing is not a mechanic in game"
    Very True!!! However, it is a player-base decision to take advantage of an existing mechanic (Karma penalties) to create their own purpose and cause....

    Let me see...hmm. well. If I used that logic on you?

    "Being a PKing prick, killing other players for no reasons is not a mechanic in game"
    Well, obviously that is true. Someone must use their REAL LIFE decisions to use a game mechanic to employ this level of playstyle.

    Then You said:
    "it was not something designed by the developers"
    Ah! Back to the facts. I suppose in your simple, yet thick, way of thinking, the devs designed the flag system so that people could abuse it and run off potential player base? Damn, here I thought developers that aspired to create MMORPGs did so for the fantasies, lore, and opportunities for role playing, sand-box role playing at that. I mean, why have trees, sky, horse, buildings, I don't know, an era of ancient society with a twist of magic and all that crap. If it was intended for nothing but PKers to abuse a mechanic, why not just have a big gray box, with little boxes so that we feel that we are strategically PvPing? Do we need to feel immersive to kill newbies at spawn-points?

    I know all of that will fly over your head- You have a "everyone I disagree with is a carebear" mindset. Even though, I never disagreed with you, entirely. Just attempted a civil discord, with a child, about different perspectives to the PvP game.

    Now to finalize your question on how PKers ruin games. You only need to look in the mirror, or simply self reflect from within this conversation. You're part of a side, and a partisan for that side. You don't give a rat's ass to the longevity of this, or any game If you did, you'd hear the complaints. You don't care if your attitude towards other players are damaging. In fact,, it's your playstyle to ruin other gamer's experience, you think it's cool to piss people off you don't even know. "It's just a game, it shouldn't effect people to have some little twerp screwing their game up, because it was intended that way"- and you've already expressed a "my way or no way" example of how it's damaging as a whole.

    I'm not sure I know ANYONE that thinks it's fun, or awesome, to go watch a movie with some ******* hitting the rewind button every few minutes so that the movie couldn't advance forward past a boring spot. So I could never imagine a game being fun, or awesome, where PKers one shotting newbs at every safe zone, node manager. Does your logic see it otherwise? OOOO noes- another real world analogy that wrecks your narrative. However, those don't apply to you because they are real life examples! Quite a fancy cop-out, even though PKers use it often when it comes to competitive monopolies over progressions. That's to be expected from people with the mentality of a libtard.

    But anyway- since you've proven not to have an original thought of your own, backed by any real reasoning behind anything you've said, other than taking something i've said in attempt to reverse it- (inverse and non causa pro causa fallacies) over and over, I suspect you have the ability to only talk in mental gymnastic without any sound arguments.

    On that final excruciating long winded emotional packed rant note- i'm bored with you. Have a good one. <3
     
  16. Pavo

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    Holy **** at the misinformation and laziness in this thread.

    If you don't like the story, you don't like it. Not sure why that's an issue or why you have to defend that.

    Also, the major problem with the lore and story is the fact that once you discover it, it doesn't get put into a journal or something. It is very time consuming to put the story together. It's all hidden behind the knowledge as well, which takes time and energy (in game energy) to complete.

    I will try to help people out as I find the lore extremely well thought out and detailed. I also find the story very intriguing because it occurs in the present as well as giving/ dealing with the past very well.

    Here is some info for anyone who cares and some links which explain things very well.

    If you don't care or don't like it, that's fine as well.



    The black spirit is basically a parasite from outer space that came to this world via a meteor. First meteor on our continent fell in Valencia ( Also the source for blackstones FYI) and was found by a person from the ancient civilization who eventually became the first awakened sentient being. We kind of can infer that one also fell in the ash forest that affected Kama, hopefully future content. It's the area SW of calpheon and is mentioned when doing the fadus quests and part of the kama story line.

    The black spirit makes it's host really smart, able to learn much faster, and stronger in general, which allows the black spirit to get more powerful as well. This is why our characters are able to be awakened and learn their classes so much faster than normal people.

    I also have a theory that our black spirit is familiar with Gyfin Rhasia and is the calamity that befell their civilization on their continent.

    There are a few websites and even videos discussing the lore.

    Problem is all the lore is extremely segmented through our knowledge and you would have to remember all the knowledge entries or put them in order to get the complete history/ story.

    FYI and some links:

    http://www.blackdesertroleplayers.com/lore

    https://steparu.com/previews/mmorpg/1561-black-desert-online-translated-lore-in-english

    http://worldwidegamewatchers.com/post/87217746981/black-desert-story-of-calpheon

    I really liked the info in these vids, but they are only to media, but do explain some of the history pretty well:




    This one is really good and gives a good explanation of The Ancients and the History of the Black Spirit on our continent:



    and finally

    https://blackdesert.info/lore

    Hope that helps a bit!
     
    #96 Pavo, Jun 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
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  17. Rayin

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    1. Fighting for resources, since they are limited.

    - They can be a pack of mobs, sheeps, wolves, some plants or even the traditional Calpheon carriage;
    - They are not instanced and do not regenerate the moment you kill/gather/harvest them. They may be abudant by someone's standard and scarce for someone else.
    - They are not level gated, therefore even Pirates for a level 62 might be worth something, depending on what he needs;
    - There's no bonus upon party'ing up, unless you farm with geared players and you can clear a wider spectrum of areas compared to when you farm alone, doing your "small" rotation. Few areas incentives you to do so, others lack of mobs, trashloot, exp or other things/all of the forementioned things;

    2. Game-Design

    - In a game that allows you to do anything, including remain on a level non-eligible for PvP, you can avoid it entirely playing in areas that aren't considered worthy by others or playing with a character inferior to level 50;
    - If they didn't want other players to flag on others, they wouldn't have introduced PvP in Open World to begin with, they would've increased the density of mobs, their spawn rate and share loot across every single character that hits a target;

    3. Fun

    - What's fun for you or not fun it's different for others. There's no higher moral ground in this, if you want to play that part it's up to you, but it just shows a convenient tunnel-visioned point of view that suits only your propaganda.
    (I don't kill other characters, i'm a good human. You do, you're a bad human)

    No, it's because Devs have literally no clue about this game and they change it according to what their marketing strategist tells them.
    Or do you want to tell me that you were one of the people who asked them to implement Renown Score, remove the Item Brand Spellstones & Loyalties from the Black Spirit Adventure, to make OP every new class released that you don't play and so on?
    Did you ask them to add a mode such as Savage Rift when many of us asked them to add some sort of challenging PvE with functional AI?

    Bad game design choices emptied many games, as it did with Vindictus when they decided to release contents doable in 2 days every 6-7-8 months, pushed on the cash shop side and they stopped listening their dedicated players as they had no reason to improve a game which gives them money no matter what, even if it's for the customization aspect. They know that releasing an half-assed outfit for some is considered "content" and even giving 100x potions which recover instantly your stamina & HP is good as long you throw in from time to time a rune, be once in 3 months.

    Mind you, Vindictus failed also because in a "PvE" game they couldn't adjust their PvP that has been butchered more and more with every patch, removing also the possibility to obtain artifacts through it because it was a good way to earn money, which was against their politics to earn money through RNG and endless grinding.

    Do you think you're a special creature with an amazing PoV that is somehow undebunkable and no one in the gaming history ever thought about that? hey, look what some people are asking in Sea of Thieves, a game that is about Pirates and Pirates were murdering the heck out of each other even for bar fights.
    Look at how some people bought the game thinking that it was some sort of solo experience with the possibility to co-op with others when it has been advertised with many videos about his PvP/PvX/PvE features.

    They're basically asking to change the core of the game, like you're doing. The fact that you willingly want to ignore a part of content and dislike it at the point that for you every other person isn't a decent human, just shows your lack of arguments decored with a lot of fancy words.

    That's true, because is the remnant of old mechanics that haven't been adjusted accordingly.
    Do you want to remove a penalty that for you is too hard? perfect, replace it with something less punishing, but replace it.
    Which they didn't, so people are exploiting a mechanic that is now legit because the developers themselves do not now how to balance this thing in an easy way and working on it would cost them time and money.

    Or are you so naive to think that they want to encourage Karmabombing because they are siding with the part of playerbase which dislikes PvP'ing and shows such an aggressive behavior towards others?

    This part will fly over everyone's head because it's nothing more but an emotive fart with very little substance in it, not because is too hard to comprehend.
    They didn't design a simulator where we're in a futuristic society that went past conflicts, wars and such and is co-operating to slain AI, they designed a World with conflicts, creatures and people triggering those conflicts. Trees, Sky, Buildings are there for you to be enjoyed, but aren't there to be the main content.
    This game is PvX, not PvP, not PvE. As such, it can allow everything you want and everything you don't want. If it creates this hostility and toxic environment, is because they started to move its borders at the point that you don't know anymore what are those.
    I can come in your spot and overfarm you while i call you pleb and i try to trigger you or i can kill you and do exactly the same.
    A jèrk is a jèrk no matter what, you're mixing on purpose this things because it benefits you. If you have an "enemy" to fight, an imaginary "opponent" to blame, it makes you feel better and help your cause to get rid of a feature that you dislike.

    And before you claim again the higher moral ground saying that i've been offensive with my "emotive fart" line, if you want ot discuss with people, you don't call them "child" and pretend to be mature.

    Same goes for you, just look in the mirror and see how much toxicity you're unleashing. But hey, it's always easier to blame others rather than solve the issue in your family.
    If your children goes around cursing, the fault lies only on one side. They taught him those bad words, you didn't. Doesn't matter if with a slap on his mouth everytime he curses you could fix his behavior, nope, others must pay for what they did.

    You are very narrow-minded, even if you like to think so highly of yourself, else you'd be even more respectful in the choice of words that you use, which you don't on purpose because that's nothing more but an attempt to vent your frustration.
    Do you think that if i'm killed while i'm questing i'm having fun? no, but i deal with it and if i can fight back i do, if not i leave. If i'm not geared enough i will.
    If i can't do anything i'll call friends and guildies.
    If they won't do anything, so be it and i'll just go outside to chill, because weirdly enough if someone kills me in BDO it doesn't affect the rest of my life.

    Enjoy typing emotive essay where they don't fit, this thread is about the lore and the story of BDO, it's not another PK/Karma thread that obviously rustle you at the point that you have to play that card where it doesn't fit.
     
    #97 Rayin, Jun 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
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  18. nolasigns

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    Nice, finally a logical response, in which 90% of it I agree with. However, one overlooked philosophy is - Game design and mechanics created by devs are trumped by player etiquette and collective actions. All the PvP intentions of "resource wars" got further outweighed by relentless, senseless, PKs, when there were no consequences. That act is a player-base initiative, not a design by devs.. You get killed once, twice, thrice in a day, no big deal. If the game came to a point where over 100 people were playing the PKer's paradise way, that once,twice,thrice would become a consistent thing, mostly towards newbs, and the resources wars that PKer's try to justify their actions for become even more irrelevant.. Sure, the devs that "don't know **** about the game they created" will focus on what the over-all player-base wants, versus a tiny voice of people that want to play the game with ill intent, spoke. You're not wanted if you think the design is intended to ruin other potential gamer's experience. Plain and simple. the CORE doesn't belong to you to assert your own theories. You need the entire backing of the community. When devs see numbers plummet, they want to know why. They will grasp for any reasons, and in most cases, it comes down to the player-bases voices.

    So, essentially, when a PKers says "go play another game" perhaps it is them that should. The cards are stacked against them currently. Might I suggest that you recruit from other games to get a more PKer enthusted crowd, come back, and start to out number the opposition, and perhaps it will one day come to this PKtopia where shooting nubs at spawn-point till they rage-quit is the name of the game.

    Plenty of MOBAs and FPS to play, that for obvious reasons, would ignore the gripes of others being a target.



    On a side note- I didn't bring the topic to this thread. Thanks for legitimizing how PKers screwed the "resource wars", and good day.
     
  19. Rayin

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    You don't get the Devs have hardly heard any reasonable complain or suggestion in a decent amount of time:

    - We want another way to progress that isn't tied up to RNG ---> Here comes Caphras stones after 3 years, that ain't anyway a catch-up mechanic as who has the most money will snipe those from MP through pre-order;
    - We want a way to downgrade stuffs ---> Here comes the utility of the Priest after 3 years;
    - We want back Item Brand Spellstones & Loyalties in the BSA game ---> Never happened;
    - We want to fight a real PvP where you don't constantly get one shot ---> They destroyed character mechanics shifting the balance. The strongest six months ago is now the weakest, the weakest is now the strongest. Renown Score kicked in, so now the most geared has less way to loose a fight while you have harder times to win one;
    - We want more hairstyle, more sliders, more male classes ----> They release 40k female classes and only after that another male class, no new hairstyle, no sliders extended to characters that have a poor character customization, no tatoos, no other change;
    - We don't want certain items in our version ----> Kamasilve tree, combat book, tent, maids and so on.

    Are you still sure that they cater to what the "majority" wants? (and we don't know what's the majority for sure)
    Should i remember you how they've been forced to release the stats of items when we discovered that they made items such as Vangertz Shield have overall much better stats than a Nouver and how a Khutum would outperform this one in every scenario, from the PvE to PvP?
    How Bloo has been banned for it and how the forum of all versions, reddit, twitter and facebook were full with "FREE BLOO" because they banned him and after that massive outrage they had no other choice but to make it chill?

    If we want to be real, that's the only time they listened to us.
    And if you keep assuming that i'm a PK'er and convinced so, i'm sorry if i have to burst your bubble, but i'm not.

    I don't need to have the majority from my side to make reasonable statements tho.
     
    RageAgainst likes this.
  20. nolasigns

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    Giving all those "wants" will never happen if a sustainable playerbase cannot even come to a mutual collective understanding to ANYTHING. Everything you even listed has apposing views. Look at every friggin topic that comes on board.

    PVP is lumped into one monolithic, even though the ideas of how PvP should be is even MORE diverse than the ideas of how PvE should be. All this balancing ****, the skills being dumbed down, is mostly due to them catering to a mixed communication of PvPers. 1v1 power vs Mass PvP power. Single man resources conflicts are a reflection to all that. Believe me, when I say, devs want dollars, thus meaning, veteran players with their entitlement issues are not the voices they will lean on the most. Those nubs being pooped out of olivia are the money and the security of longevity.

    Why on earth would devs bend to the will of those that thinks they should use a game mechanic to monopolies other gamer's experience?
     

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