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Why Leather Off-hand?

Discussion in 'Striker' started by Zythr009, Sep 26, 2017.

  1. Zythr009

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    Honestly, I don't get it... What makes leather BiS before going for boss weapons?
    How is it better than rosar Offhand with rosar main hand?
    I see Leather and all I can see is 1 gem, less ap and dp, no set bonus. So what gives?
     
  2. sthammack57

    sthammack57 LedHammack Lahn 62 NA

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    It is considered bis when you have other bis gear, e.g. kzarka main and dandelion awakened mainly because of the accuracy modifier but also because it has been tested by some top tier players extensively.
     
  3. Zythr009

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    So, BiS with other BiS items, not necessarily BiS for every set-up.
     
  4. Kutsuu

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    It's because Leather, unlike Rosar, gives a tremendous amount of accuracy. At TRI it gives roughly 100 "all accuracy", or 25 accuracy in the non-retarded nomenclature.

    So a TRI Leather gives you 13-15AP, 24 Evasion (96 "all evasion"), 2 DR, and the accuracy previously mentioned. It's extremely hard to beat even with boss offhands - where Kutum only pulls ahead in PVE when you have enough accuracy to go with it.
     
    choovanski likes this.
  5. Lee Ryu

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    Leather performs well in PvE and is best in PvP due to acc/eva stats. It's the Striker version of Saiyer/Vangertz. For PvE Kutum will be better due to hidden ap vs monsters.
     
  6. Empz

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    I had a few duels with my level 60 striker vs. a level 60 valk this weekend. With TRI Leather (5 AP, 150HP) i lost every single one (one comboed). When i switched to kutum (2× 5AP, 150HP) i survived with 20% HP...
    So i wouldn't say leather>kutum in every Pvp Situation.
    (I use TET kzarka, TET bhegs, 2×TRI RCE)
     
  7. Lee Ryu

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    Do you have muskan's ?
     
  8. Empz

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    Yes, TET Muskans.
     
  9. summe

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    So, you are implying a difference of 5 ap with Kutum allowed you to go from being chain killed to surviving with 20% hp...in one duel? Sample size may be too small, even if more than one duel with kutum; 5 ap just really should not make that much of a difference as well.
    This pvp meta seems to revolve around accuracy vs. evasion, hence the focus on Leather, it adds a large amount of accuracy. (Also, it seems accuracy is one of the larger weaknesses of the Striker class.)
    A good test, rather than dueling, which may involve knowledge, skill, ping, rng in small sample sizes, etc - you may have simply learned how to better read and duel the Valk by the time you switched to the Kutum - a better test would simply be to repeatedly have your guildie stand there in different amounts of dp/evasion gear, from say 300 dp to 350, to 400, and see how much damage you can do in a single combo or using a single skill using each offhand. The more times you run this, the more you even out rng. (Kutum lists accuracy goes up with ap and dp, but it is not visible, not sure if/when it catches up with the visible Leather stat. Kutum at tri does also have 12 more ap than Leather at tri, but generally accuracy > ap in this meta...the above would be an interesting test.)
     
    #9 summe, Sep 27, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  10. WastedJoker

    WastedJoker Striker 61 EU

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    I have a guildy who is very much better at pvp than I and he swears by kutum for pvp too.

    not sure if it's because the added ap of kutum makes the clone accuracy even more significant?
     
  11. Empz

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    Don't get me wrong here, i don't say that kutum > leather. I don't have the time nor the motivation to take some long test runs. I like to duel here and there, and there are a few encounters (like vs a Valk or a Berserker) where i don't see much ground against. And there are others (like dk, witch/wizz) i almost never lose. It doesn't matter in both cases if i wear kutum or leather, but in my last duels vs this Valk i've seen that kutum gives me more surviability than leather. Maybe it was the ping, luck, or whatever...

    But i'll use kutum in the near future more often.
     
  12. Hardup

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    HIYA ...May i ask what belt and necklace -gloves and helm u used with leather ....and gems in helm./chest....also where u knocked down when dps was applied ..
     
  13. Kutsuu

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    This whole clone accuracy thing has been a bit warped by "nerf plz" propaganda. The only skill in which clones do a significant portion of damage is Echo Spirit (100% clone damage). Virtually every other skill, except one we don't use often (ultimate crush) sources the vast majority of its damage from the Striker. The next closest would be Endless Explosion and even with that one the majority is still coming from the Striker. 95% of our biggest burst damage skill (Skull Crusher) is purely from the Striker and has fairly low accuracy.

    Now to establish damage output difference in PVP between Kutum and Leather, it does depend on your total AP. Let's say you have 200AP with leather and 212AP with Kutum, and maybe we just say 217AP with Kutum since you can fit an extra +5AP crystal in there. So 17AP difference. The +1 Special attack modifier on ultimate leather has been tested to give ~5% dmg to crits, and 8% dmg to down and back attacks. This is mitigated by ~20% by special attack evasion crystals that almost everyone runs, but it still completely closes that 17AP gap during proper striker combos where you are always getting either a back attack or down attack modifier. (it also closes a big part of the gap between Leather and Nouver...)

    The most likely explanation for the Valk doing less damage against Kutum than Leather is because the Valk was using Vangertz, his 12% accuracy buff, Zarka/Bheg's/crystals, and was still hitting 100% accuracy against the leather. Kutum has a decent little chunk of DR (~12DR at TRI) and was giving 150 extra HP which might have been just enough to live through a combo where he didn't with leather.

    There are cases where the DR, extra HP, and resist penetration (for grabs) on Kutum could outweigh Leather when you have accuracy accessories and your opponent isn't excessively stacking evasion, but it's unlikely to beat Leather in damage output.
     
  14. Hissis

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    Everyone that tried some PVP using different offhands against geared players knows that leather is not BiS.

    It's a Excellent offhand
    but not for every pvp situation,like you said.
     
  15. Empz

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    I was Knocked down.
    Rest of my gear: duo ogre, 2x duo crescents, duo basi.
    Gems: not for pvp gemed (10% xp, hp, etc).
     
  16. Hardup

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    Ty for reply ... in this case the test is not really comparable ...dp is static but evasion is varible ...u have to take into consideration the accuracy of your opponent....so it didnt really matter what off hand u used, other than a high dp one, the kutum would perform better in a defensive role ....add in to the equation u were knocked down which nullifies evasion ....to do a fair comparison u would need to up your evasion so its 20-25% higher than the accuracy of your friend ...and stay on your feet ..and use a attack with 100% crit ....

    evasion defensive is not a easy fix and takes commitment in order to use it ...

    above values are once again just what i have read and in no way have i done any test and it take my hat off to the peeps who have done hours of testing Thank You /bow
     
  17. Kutsuu

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    Being knocked down doesn't nullify evasion. It probably should if we are thinking realistically - but that would imbalance the DP stats significantly.
     
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  18. Hardup

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    TY for the correction ....much apprecitated ...
     
  19. Kutsuu

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    However the core part of your argument is correct. Evasion *can* be completely countered by accuracy, but DR is always going to reduce damage no matter what they are using (though it is less effective against very high AP builds). While it is very effective to stack one or the other (the returns become better the higher you stack it), I personally do not choose to go that route.

    When I go Hybrid build, I have +32 evasion and +22DR over just base boss armor stats, not counting crystals. The DR helps me be more tanky against low AP accuracy stackers, and both the DR and evasion helps me against AP stackers. With this I rarely get 1-combo'd by anyone unless they are one of the extreme burst classes who also have a lot of AP/acc.
     
  20. Sleepii

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    I remember saying this only to have LemonCrush and you get on my case. What caused the change of heart?
    Edit: Name
     
    #20 Sleepii, Sep 29, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017

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