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Why pay to win?

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by easypr0, Aug 5, 2019.

  1. 2Cents

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    That first example should be widely understood by the community. It's borderline and in some cases may be illegally misrepresenting a product. It's difficult to have any discussion on the forums when the vast majority simply don't have a realistic understanding of the situation and don't belong in a discussion or debate to be honest.

    That's why you often see the lowest level of discussion like "it's a business they have to make money". Not really even worth responding to.
     
  2. Ben Phoenix

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    "It's a business and they have to make money" is a fact, the fact that they could have a different way to make money is another story. That's the real issue, not the fact that BDO is a product developed to make money.
     
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  3. 2Cents

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    It's an idea for simpletons that use it out of context.

    Apex Legends was "just a business trying to make money". Now their changing their event, and are apologizing to their consumers after a massive backlash.

    Saying it's "Just a business is pointless". There has literally NEVER been anyone trying to argue against it, thus the statement serves no purpose.

    What the community really needs to know is THIS IS A WAR and they need TO FIGHT BACK. Apex's community FOUGHT BACK and it resulted in changes to their model and an apology from the company. That company hasn't learned any real lessons yet though. They will continue to use the same tactics, because they work.

    The community needs to figure this out and stop falling for these tactics. When these tactics cease to work they won't be used anymore.
     
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  4. Ben Phoenix

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    This community doesn't seem willing to change the system, I guess that most of it is fine with how things work here.
     
  5. Boink

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    Because real life is wrap in little convenience and all businesses do is exploit it. Little convenience is the "win".

    Besides the MMO market is saturated with a lot competition. New Archeage, WOW classic and most companies including mine resort to a much more Machiavellian approach when they face such pierce competition. I don't think there is a company out there that doesn't use this approach except maybe for non-profit organization and charity work.

    Also this is one of the reasons why I feel the need to quit my office job. But I accept it's a reality. Life is PAY 2 WIN.
     
  6. Kynreaa

    Kynreaa DarkKnight 62

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    Do what your self? The plumbing, or create a game?
    Either way its not the knowledge that prevents people its the lack of having the correct tools, and the money.
    Your plumbing explodes, you would be a person that has no intellagence to attempt to do it your self if your not a plumber with the correct tools, and materials. Its cheaper, unless your going into that field, as that much work shouldn't happen around the house that would require all of that.

    If your talking about a game. Well rule number 1, never make something you enjoy as a hobby your main source of income, you will learn to hate it.
    I prefer to contract the professionals, and tell them what I want, and I believe they enjoy it that way as well.

    Other then that, you still dont see whats going on do you?
    Someone on another thread claimed that we should be grateful PA did a QOL change that should have been in the game in the first place.
    Thats seems to be your mentality. You feel that the convenience is there to benefit people who dont attempt to play the game the correct way.

    See that would be if we had competent Devs. No that is not what is happening here. They took, and continue to take the lazy route, abusing PTW/PTC, and in most cases a solid requirement, if your want to move away from the solo, and lifeskilling portion of what this game offers. They have taken something working, and broke it to put the solution in the Pearl store.

    You seem to willingly ignore all of the broken mechanics, and inconveniences that were poorly placed into the game, with ZERO immersion, into how they guide people to the pearl store. PA has its reputation for a reason. Just because they arnt as bad as X, doesn't make them immune to criticism.

    See there should be nothing wrong with how the company monetizes, but when they make it so blatantly obvious, and predatory, is when people begin to complain.

    You and a few others continually lying to your selves help nothing, and only deviate valid discussion on the many many glaring flaws that need attention to make this game truly great, not just for PA's pockets, but for us as well.
    Get past the fact this game fits the various legal descriptions that people have attributed to a PTW/PTC game, and lets discuss how they can retain players. Lets make it so when we spread word about this game by word of mouth, we dont look like buffoons that enjoy tossing money at executives, that just trashed a genra. Cause currently, with the motivation we give PA, every transaction screams PTW, or Pay for them to add more inconveniences with solutions to be found behind paywalls.

    Who told you that lie?

    It incentivizes terrible game development.
     
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  7. Korvgubben

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    Tbh its not as enjoyable to me as it could have been because the money I have decided to spend on the game under its current business model doesnt buy me very much with the current cash shop prices so Im missing out on a lot of the "fixes" for the game. You see I dont just complain on the forums I use what means I have to try to convey my message that their current direction isnt what I want. I've paid on average ~6,5€ per month since I started playing and that number isnt half of what a monthly fee game used to cost me by coincidence.


    I dont manipulate anything. Those 2 categories fits every player although they are obviously not 2 completely separate groups but rather ppl on a long line from least paying to most paying. Id even go a step further and say that every1 is in the "crippled" group as I've seen time and time again that "rich wants more" so even the heaviest of whales probably feel that they want more from time to time.

    While its true that time matters a lot in BDO you cannot make a factual argument based on 3 players alone. What if your wife is twice as effective at generating silver compared to you and youre keeping up because you spend more in the cash shop while your son might be the most effective of you. Not even you know exactly how it is unless you monitor them both while they play at all times.

    Its nice that you can play and enjoy the game with your family but it doesnt bring very much facts to the table.


    Might want to not leave out the last sentence that suggested it to be a joke. Although like many good jokes theres a grain of truth in it.


    Theres an ever growing list of games to use as example of where the industry is heading :(
     
  8. 2Cents

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    The actual gaming community is basically united on this. Apex Legends recent back lash is just another example. The end result was Apex apologizing to the community for their actions and horrible business practices.

    Most are just not as vocal or they moved on. You won't hear from many of those who left BDO in disgust over this issue.
     
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  9. Boink

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    Subscription base giants already exists. No one dares to compete with them as of yet. What you guys need to understand is that businesses, any form, genre or style have a competition.
     
  10. Kynreaa

    Kynreaa DarkKnight 62

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    Well, the industry calls anyone who spends $50 a month a whale...so based on that its happy hunting season for them.
    It is a crippled version of the game if PTC is their profit model, they would be incompetent not to make it crippled...Any CEO who does not pursue that goal would be fired.
    I mean look, you just admitted not spending money on the game..and for the industry you are poison, and need to be shuffled off, they want people advertising that they spend money.

    Which is why people are getting turned off from these monetization models.
     
    #430 Kynreaa, Aug 20, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  11. Boink

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    That' s a different platform. Apex Legends is survival theme for Xbox users. Not that many survival - B.R. shooter games out there for Xbox. Survival / Genre is also an "in" thing with most gamers nowadays. You ever ask why BDO tried to create a battle royale mini games?

    You keep comparing different genre and platforms and somehow you want BDO to conform with it's business model.
     
  12. Kynreaa

    Kynreaa DarkKnight 62

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    Yea i know..I gave him the benefit of the doubt, that he is not outright lying when he claims those types of games belong to a different era, and PTW/PTC monetization is the only present, or inevitable future.

    So I figured someone lied to him, and he bought it. Coming here claiming that garbage.
     
  13. Phoenixxx75

    Phoenixxx75 Lahn 61 NA

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    You win more enjoyment.
    We play a game for fun or enjoyment as you put it, and then the modern game developers discovered that if they strangled certain aspects of gameplay they could coerce their customers to spend more. This is an abhorrent way of making money to most people.
     
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  14. 2Cents

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    Get that mess of platforms out of your head. The example is absolutely perfect and relevant. Apex Legends managed to screw up Cosmetic Items by trying to screw over customers, and the customers fought back, as they should.

    When people become complacent them become controlled.
     
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  15. Boink

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    Yes because it dominates the platform of Xbox. You send that mess out there in PC and you will find that game in the back drafts of Steam remakes.. with crappy servers and more login requirements.

    Apex Legends can "afford" the lost with the transition.
     
  16. Smileybones

    Smileybones Ranger 62 NA

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    WoW merely survives because inertia and FFXIV is the only exception to the massive rule stating every other game ever released and actually running isn't sub based. And no, Ultima Online doesn't count.

    So yes sub based games are from an era that is long dead.

    Besides p2w/p2c aren't business models. b2p/f2p/p2p actually are.
     
  17. 2Cents

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    You should stop trying to argue the platform and listen. Take some time to listen, think, and reflect. I could provide examples on every single platform that consistently demonstrate the same effect. Thus the platform isn't the issue.

    Additionally, Apex can not afford what they did. Their developers began lashing back calling customers ass-hats, free loaders, and other insulting statements. It was an absolute PR nightmare that should have led to mass firing.

    Anyone REMEMBER ARCHAEGE!!!! Why can't anyone remember Archaege. What about Archeage? Wasn't Aracheage destroyed and the example of a good game sunked by complete P2W. Remember that game... Archeage!! How soon we forget eh.
     
  18. Boink

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    Do you understand that there are only a couple of people that play different Genre of games? When you put marketable product only a couple selected people will buy into it.

    Battle Royale - Survival is one of most wanted genres that is hyped right now. BDO tried to make one, remember?

    MMORPGs is pretty much dead except for loyal fans who been playing WOW for 20+ years.

    Now if you put that in a platform not that many owns an XBOX. Like 3 to 5 battle royale games out there for Xbox out of how many expected users to play it. You still getting a huge fraction of players who will enjoy product and still make money "Buy to play" with cosmetics optionals.

    Yes we know Archeage died because of monetization. It has to do because of TRION inept ways on how they build up their business. It was too aggressive that they bought a lot of MMOs and tried to market it at the same time... not counting against future MMO releases or other competition which is A LOT. Since Archeage was the commonly used game in their arsenal well they have to make money somehow.
     
  19. Boink

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    That's why it's suicide to go against a Giant... in business terms. That's what I meant about it.
     
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  20. 2Cents

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    Apex Legends isn't a MMORPG, but that no impact on the situation. Literally none. No one cares about the genre at all when it comes to the micro transaction issue. Imagine how dumb it would be to think of it this way........... Well this feels like a very cheap business tactic, but let me consider first the genre. I know this special event for $200+ cosmetics feels scummy, but let me first consider it's an MMORPG. No one cares at that point whether it's a SHMUP, MMO, Single Player, or what platform it's on.

    As for the MMORPG community, it's alive and strong. There are millions of fans looking for a good MMORPG.
     
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