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Why pay to win?

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by easypr0, Aug 5, 2019.

  1. Boink

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    Yes because GENRE defines how many people are expected to use your product.

    Hmmm are we talking about different platforms here? Coz Twitch, Mixer, Average Users of every games out there sells otherwise point to saying Shooter/Battle Royale is one of the most played genre out there. Or we talking about your statistics "coz you play it"?
     
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  2. Smileybones

    Smileybones Ranger 62 NA

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    lol at armchair activists who completely fail at realising the most basic situations: you can yell all you want about micro transactions, it won't change a single iota about the fact that this business model replaced the ancient "one size fits all" which has been rejected by so many players by the current "a la carte" business model which fits the current gamers mindset quite well, and far from only in the video games industry.

    Therefore, despite all the negative effects caused by abuses from companies, this business model won't go away anytime soon unless someone designs a better one that fits even more the consumers mindset.

    At best it would get more heavily regulated, but believing you fight to remove it is being delusional at best.
     
  3. 2Cents

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    The consumers had a choice on the Apex Legends incident. They could fight back and win as they did. Or they could take your advise, crumble, and do nothing to better their situation.

    I think the answer is clear, and even you know better. You just don't want to admit I am right. ;)
     
  4. Smileybones

    Smileybones Ranger 62 NA

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    Not only you either didn't read a single word of what you quoted or you didn't understand a single word out of it, but on top of that you lie about me advising people anything.
     
  5. 2Cents

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    No I just ran over your faulty propaganda that it's an all or nothing issue. As if either every company would unanimously drop the business model and there are no nuances or individual battles.

    I'm right again, go ahead and admit it ;)
     
  6. Smileybones

    Smileybones Ranger 62 NA

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    No, you are the one actually producing propaganda directed at young people that are usually impressed by "rebels".

    The actually important part was stated by me and consists of 2 points:

    - your hair pulling about a single game don't matter, laws do since they affect all games.
    - this business model exists for a reason, and provides a factual advantage to consumers therefore it won't go away anytime soon.

    You're wrong again, but as I demonstrated already, querying the forum database with any expression meaning that you admit it yields no results over 3 years.
     
  7. Kynreaa

    Kynreaa DarkKnight 62

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    ...So your telling me, if BDO was subscription based, and the whole pearl store was naturally integrated into the game in its originally developed way, including costume pieces that are standardized matching gear, and in general far far more gear selection, which the outfit sets were originally developed for, even a tailor to change the appearance of good looking boss gear into provocative gear...you would quit playing?

    Or better yet, if it started off FTP/BTP, with the value pack costing 15-30 bucks a month giving only log in rewards, and thats it, everything else in the pearl store just was in game naturally, taxes naturally set to 15%, everything drops like we all have loot scrolls, and karma blessing was actually a blessing for doing a quest....you would avoid this place like the plague?

    Seriously, profit is minus expense..HOW much expense do you think went into this game, and does it take on a yearly basis?
     
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  8. 2Cents

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    I'll just stick with the proven track record and history that demonstrates over and over that consumers have an impact. I'm not sure why you want to push the propaganda that fighting back is useless. I'm kidding... I know exactly why. Because I said it, and you can't stand that. You would turn against your own values just to argue a frivolous fight.
     
  9. Kynreaa

    Kynreaa DarkKnight 62

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    Not just an impact...We customers are the most influential force any business has to deal with.
     
  10. Smileybones

    Smileybones Ranger 62 NA

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    I can't see how you manage to assume from my post my preference towards any business model when I simply and neutrally stated that one is from the past and other belongs to current gaming standards.

    See previous comment.

    Actually I think you misquoted someone because I can't understand how someone can reply so toltaly out of the point being quoted.

    I'll just stick to what I clearly exposed and still witnessing you lying about what I said and conveniently dodging my points, Mr Dodge.

    But go on, you clearly impress young users, while mature people use more discrete but more effective channels to turn situations into laws instead of social media warrioring.
     
  11. Kynreaa

    Kynreaa DarkKnight 62

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    Do you read what you type..you claim they only survive from their inertia..not from what customers actually want....You are a customer!
    You claim you dont want that complete experience when you typed the word..."merely" survive.

    Oh, and by the way..Yes P2W, and P2C are business models..Iv posted the video twice already on what the industry has reviled about them selves, should i post it again?
     
  12. Smileybones

    Smileybones Ranger 62 NA

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    Oh so you paid minimal attention afterwards, good. Next step would explain to us how stating why WoW survives has anything to do with my personal preferences regarding business models.

    Additionally, I'd like to inform you that WoW features micro transactions despite belonging to the p2p business model. Now that you are informed, you should be able to make a more educated opinion about what I stated about generations of business models and generations of gamers.
     
  13. Gun_Runner

    Gun_Runner Gun_Runner 62 NA

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    So you are, as you say, pay less on average then you would on a subscription based game but upset you can not afford all you would like from the cash shop? If you had paid double or more then an average subscription based game and didn't see the value you expect from the cash shop, that might hold more merit.

    Everyone wants more for their money, thats just basic. But your original statement specified you either payed nothing in to game and was forced to play a crippled game, or spent a "hefty" amount to play an enjoyable game. Those 2catagories don't fit everyone and trying to state they do is forcing the audience here to think there are only two options when there is a large middle ground that many players sit at and are happy with. So yes, it is manipulative.

    If you would like a larger group, I have about 37 members in my guild and some spend money, some dont. But the member of my guild who make the most of game are the ones who invest the most time and planing to game. Can spending money on game and time in game go hand in hand, yes. But someone who spends a lot on game and little time vs a player who spend lots of time in game and little money... well it should be hard to know which play will be the better and more advance in game over all. If any doubt it the one who put more time and less money.

    That was not a joke, it was a my actually feeling reading what you wrote. As I said, if it applies to you... if not ignore it.


    Not sure where you got that stat of $50 a month from. To me whale is someone who spends far in excess of what even a committed player would ever spend. In the past 6 or 7 years I have averaged about $1200 to $1500 a year on a game I am seriously playing. And I don't spend cash on casual games, thats why they are just casual. Listening to my guild mates who spend cash they are about on par with my spending and looking back at the How Much Have You Invested post on forums here, some are higher, some lower, but didn't see any whales posted there.
     
  14. Khondo

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    So we should all stop going to the movies now, going out for dinner, buying products that make it easier for us to live? Business's all around the world sell products to people and strive to make the biggest profit on their product.

    Wake up, game developers have finally caught up with the 21st century and have a market to sell to. There is nothing wrong with that. I have news for you it is only going to happen more and more. Simply because people want to enjoy themselves and are willing to pay for it.

    The point of whether it is right or wrong does not matter as the product will still sell.
     
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  15. Smileybones

    Smileybones Ranger 62 NA

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    Oh so you paid minimal attention afterwards, good. Next step would explain to us how stating why WoW survives has anything to do with my personal preferences regarding business models.

    Additionally, I'd like to inform you that WoW features micro transactions despite belonging to the p2p business model. Now that you are informed, you should be able to make a more educated opinion about what I stated about generations of business models and generations of gamers.

    I don't care much about your "video", I care about facts. the fact about business model is how companies will allow you to access their games: by paying monthly, by paying once or by not paying at all. This said, this every running game features a cash shop with "a la carte" micros nowadays, but it's totally irrelevant to how you access games.
     
  16. Khondo

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    What planet are you on? BDO and 99% of other games out there are there to make money, not to provide free entertainment for the majority of players. If people did not spend money in the pearl shop, BDO would have closed down a long time ago. People are willing to spend money on their entertainment.

    People who play BDO without spending money, good for them, they get to play this great game on the backs of the majority who are willing to pay for their entertainment. It's like video piracy, the majority pay for the product but a few get their entertainment for free.
     
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  17. WinterMilla

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    Funny how people can actually defend BDO monitization and with such force too. Every time I look around PA is digging in peoples pockets by making the game more and more frustrating for no real reason. My favorite updates this year and last year was the cron stone changes and the artisans memory changes.
    Cron stone:
    Decrease the amount needed for protection, on its on a good
    Increased the base price to 2mil, and just like that they took all good will away
    Increased Market place prices for PS item..... why?
    Add cron melting to costumes, ah i see why now

    Artisans:
    Increased from x3 to x4, who asked for this?

    I was laughing hard when I heard the news about these changes, but then I had seen a magical response about the loyaltie shop from GM. "What do you guys wanna see changed about the loyaltie shop?"
    How about you guys add a method of getting perm costumes from there even if its just the old ones. Add in a method for earning more loyties then what is given daily. (Maybe in the form of dailies). Hows about we don't sell +1 inventory for 10 days worth of loyalties, but instead decrease the amount needed or increase the amount earned. Hows about not selling only +50LT and offer at the very least +150 LT. Hows about bundling the storage you buy so you add one to each storage rather then having to spend multiple times for +1 storage in each city.

    I think IMO overwatch has one of the best monitization systems in this current era of gaming, but i still don't like loot boxes. You can earn money through play time and can buy the event skins by just playing the game. Its like they are rewarding play time, freaking mind blowing. There are no pay walls, nothing that you can buy to give you an advantage, no dlc bs, just straight you play the game. Now mind you I'm not saying that its a perfect game because of this, but rather you can make enough money off cosmetics alone to run this game while still giving players the options to buy items with money.

    Ever is trying to say if you play smart and give it a lot of time then it all works out. No it really doesn't. The biggest factor a lot of people are forgetting is luck. Some one can play for only a week and in theory hit full tri, in theory. In practice I be shocked to see most beginners with a single pri. Why does +14 and +15 the same as going for a TET and PEN who knows, just clicking am I right?.Just because you throw stones at a wall doesn't make it any less of a wall, some got lucky and broke it others just swipe and fly over it. The rest are still grinding polly and bandits.
     
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  18. 2Cents

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    You really put the burden on other forum users with your intentional & unintentional ignorance of all the issues.

     
  19. Smileybones

    Smileybones Ranger 62 NA

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    OMG they got a whole bag, such a social progress towards a better humankind.

    I bet this will impress Senators, who, we all know are geeks "educating" themselves through social medias, as wannabe devs who learn the difference between basic database management and structural database management, MrDodge.
     
  20. Naho

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    I said that a while ago, and got jumped on, because ppl think if they keep playing the game while complaining, it's gonna change one day, the way they want. it's been 2 years+ btw.
    Everyone says they care about the game, no ones wants to do the move in order to "save" the game they like.
     

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