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Why this game is not pay to win...

Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Silverfauve, Aug 31, 2018.

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  1. Silverfauve

    Silverfauve MacGonagall Witch 61 EU

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    Greetings,

    P2W is when you can buy items in a game one needs to upgrade and get into endgame exclusively with real life money. Everything else is paying for convenience and/or time reducing. It is a choice. You don’t need to pay to get the same result: you just might get there a bit easier or faster if you pay.

    If one plays a MMO they should be prepared to commit to it long term and spend a lot of time to gain what they are after, and preferable enjoy the journey. If one starts a MMO that has been around for a while, they can not expect to catch up to players that have been around since the release. Some might choose to spend a lot of real life money to catch up while others don't have that option available to them. Everyone who can not handle this, is probably better off playing an other genre of games.

    Last but not least: I am grateful for everyone spending dollars or euros into this game. It is a commercial enterprise that needs regular funds to pay salaries and overhead in order to be able to continue development and expand the game. There is nothing wrong with that (nor with making a profit), and if one feels it is unfair, please go outside and get a sniff and a whiff of real life. Because allowing the richer to pay for the poorer majority and thus allowing everyone to play the same content, is actually a democratic concept a lot of governments might want to embrace in order to make the world that better place.

    On a personal note: I have been playing Black Desert Online since headstart on an almost daily base and I still enjoy it a lot. I have tried other games, and none of them comes even close to the amount of content and the quality of the graffics. The only thing I really do not like, is the amount of trolling and trashing on these forums. It is the worst I have ever seen in any game, and I feel it is shameful. It is as if the generations that were born into the internet age and weren't around to witness it's magical birth, never learned the Netiquette. Please brush up. :-)

    Kind regards,
    Silverfauve MacGonagall
    Rebellicious
    rebellicious.eu
     
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  2. Creence

    Creence Witch 61 EU

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    The only winners in this game are PA and Kakao
     
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  3. Shastalya

    Shastalya Warell Musa 50 EU

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    Oh waow i laughed so much thank you really.

    But i wont bother dismembling your points one by one because it takes time and im not paid to educate internet peeps.
     
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  4. C4rdinal

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    Nice pile of crap... keep your eyes closed and keep telling urself that it aint p2w.
     
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  5. Boink

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    They key point of the gameplay is to get gear and lifeskill up to get better silver to acquire better gear and crafted items.

    Silver is the key goal here and acquiring it in x amount per hour.

    When someone can swipe and make 500m for 1 minute and just simply buy them to get 200+ cron stones which valued at 1 million ea all other activities to "play the game" that makes silver is pointless.

    If you are into dressing up and roleplaying sure I guess that doesn't apply and you can get to PEN without having a care in the world. But like all games that went this way, they all died. AION was one of them.
     
  6. Escapism

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    No, i got to stop you right there.

    1. there is no official definition of p2w
    2. the meaning & usage of the term has changed a lot since it first started being used
    3. most if not all people use the term now for anything that grants you any sort of advantage over other non-paying customers

    Why is that you ask? because devs & publishers have gotten smarter and these days NEVER introduce any new p2w cashgrabs anymore which would fall into the category you describe. Instead they have become sneakier, so people like you who are still stuck on decade-old ideologies can still claim and believe that its not p2w.

    Btw. what you describe when cash investments are absolutely 100% necessary to reach certain endgame goals, that would be referred to as a paywall.
     
  7. Vertixen

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    You totally do not understand the whole thing... The whole hate for P2W and everything is because of....
    When BDO was coming 2 years ago from Asia to Europe... Everyone was happy that in Europe publisher will be Kakao not Gameforge, and Kako personally they gave us 3 options with VOTE OPTION.... 1st option with subscription only without any shop or anything, 2nd option B2P with small cosmetic shop [outfits, change hairs and generally cosmetic look only], or F2P with kinda big "item shop"... and PLAYERS DECIDED B2P option.... So they gave us this option, the base type [bronze] was 29,99 USD back then, silver was 49,99 and gold edition was 99,99 USD... And yes, we had B2P as we wanted, and yes we had cosmetic "item shop" but then they started adding their tricks of small P2W [small bonuses for exp increase, and then they added weapon durability, they added weight increase, then x3 pets on first.... Then they have added most controversial item "Value Pack" and it splitted BDO community into two parts: First part yelling P2W TOTALLY!! Second part P2W but within reason... They even asked community because they were receiving a lot of spam messages regarding Value Pack that it makes P2W, that they lied about is because its like B2P game with subscription [ a lot of ppls were treating VP as subscription] and they were adding more and more, increased to 5x pets, they throw tents into shop and more and more items P2W... and they just crossed the line with last patch.

    SO YES THEY ARE LIERS AND THEY MADE THIS GAME FROM B2P WITH SHOP WITHIN A REASON, TO P2W GAME WITHIN TWO YEARS. THOSE ARE FACTS
     
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  8. Netreiam

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    Hey man, whatever you need to tell yourself to make you feel good about forking over hundreds of $ for a game that the devs clearly couldn't care less about.

    If you don't like the "Trolling and trashing" then stay off the forums.


    IMO, there is nothing wrong with supporting a game. But why support a game that consistently spits in the faces of the players that do such supporting? The cash shop isn't designed to support the game. The game was designed to support the cash shop. Until PA shows that they care more about creating a quality product that is worth a high investment on time and money instead of trying to swindle players with cheap psychological tricks to sell a below-average game experience I will not endorse this game.
     
    #8 Netreiam, Aug 31, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
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  9. jose0320

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    Don’t feed the troll
     
  10. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    For the people complaining about p2w, what winning is there proof was paid for?
    Do we have people with full PEN since the patch?
    Do we have people with less than 30days with 570-580GS?
     
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  11. United_Strafes

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    That's adorable.

    Oh and by the way because someone doesn't buy pixel money to upgrade a pixel ax doesn't mean they are poor and if someone does buy pixel money to upgrade a pixel ax doesn't mean they are rich. If fact it's usually the other way around.
     
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  12. Eynix

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    Greetings,

    No it's not.

    Kind regards
     
  13. Strycer

    Strycer Kunoichi 61 EU

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    Nice explanation there OP and I agree partly with ur opinion.

    Without intending to be offensiv or rude, I would like to point out some of my concerns.

    For the Beginning: This is a Game and there is no need on spending endless of real money. You surely can get everything without buying anything form the Cash shop.
    And as long as a Player has fun playing the Game then he/she should continue playing it.

    On the other hand, there are enough "Gamers" who intends to see or to play an MMO as kind of a competition (such as myself). Getting the better equipment, getting stronger, leveling up, competing with other player, winning and loosing.
    A lot of MMO Players are playing such games with that kind of a thinking.

    And sadly this game is more and more going to the way "if u want to catch up, pay". Even though u can catchup without paying, the time needed for progress grows exponentially. And time ist what a lot of Players do not have. And I don't mean like 1-2 or 3 Hours a Day, more like 5-10 Hours a day to even slightly be able to catch up.

    Further more my main concern here is the fact: Gear above Skill
    And in an Open World PVP Game with one of the End-Game Elements as such, its getting less attractive to PVP oriented Players such as myself.
    I know there has always been such P2Convenience Elements before so why complaining now.... its just that it is more and more getting out of hand.

    Related to the latest Patch my thinking is: Well when there are enough rich idiots who are willing to pay like what? 100-200€ for a single PEN attempt then so be it, I don't care. For me its the matter of fact that they implemented such a feature even though the majority of players did not want this. And on Top of that, there is no communication with the Player Base and only false promises regarding to the Valks Cry.

    So my conclusion here is that it is getting more and more into that direction as stated above. It is off course able to catch up with High Geared Players despite the time consuming issue, but for how long? For me its looking like they are going more into that direction and ending up with the statement: It is completely not possible to catch up without paying real money into this game.

    I hope that I made my points here clear to some users^^
     
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  14. Escapism

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    Do we have people with full PEN since the patch? ->No, we had them before the patch already, and coincidentally all of them were heavy p2w whales. Show me just 1 player who spent nothing or very little who is full PEN (doesnt even have to include accs).

    Do we have people with less than 30days with 570-580GS? -> What should this have to do with anything? What exactly should this prove or disprove? Where in the entire debatte of wether something is p2w or not, or how much p2w something is, come the numbers "30 Days" and "570-580 GS" in the equation? Is there some kind of magic formula to 100% accurately scientifically determine p2w factor, which i dont know about?
     
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  15. kakodaimonos

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    A bit, huh? So 10x or even 100x faster is just a bit? Because you can easily get that if you pay money.
     
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  16. Hoebbit

    Hoebbit Valkyrie 62 EU

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    So now they're buy to play, subscription based (bcs most ppl buy vp) and they're now p2w since Wednesday!

    So much win!

    Scammer company is not scammer!
     
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  17. kakodaimonos

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    You're delusional if you think it's P2W since Wednesday... it was from the time Artisans was in the game which is basically since release.
     
  18. Souldealer

    Souldealer Warrior

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    Hello everyone,

    You are kinda naive mate, sry to break it to you. Your statement is correct, its an ASIAN game that came to EU/NA. All the asian games have paywalls everyone knows that. I personally voted for the subscription model cause i like that more then anything, just pay like 15 euros / month and maybe get some cosmetics in the shop like outfits horse gear, and maybe some convenience items. Loging, inventory, weight.
    Compared to the price it came out for, now you can buy the game for like 10 euros or something like that, so they downed that part of the paywall.
    The value pack is not a must, yes it is convenient and its great to have one but its not a must. You are not forced to buy one, you will progress slower/make less money but you can still progress.
    Pets and tents are in the same category for me as value pack is, they make your grind faster. (I have both of them, i could do without them but i just like not picking up items, or going back from desert to repair).
    What i consider a P2W element is the artisan memory, maybe the tailoring coupon for the +2 movement speed (no big deal).
    Regarding this crone stone problem, it makes it easyer for people to get TET, not PEN. If you do the math you need around 140$ for a PEN ATTEMPT, not a 100% success chance, just a try at it. With 125 FS you have around 20% of success chance, so you Theoretically need to spend 700$ to get a pen, maybe you get it for 700$ maybe less but there is chance and a pretty big one that you will be spending way over 1500$ just for a PEN.
    Some people will have the money for that , but most of the playerbase wont.
    And why are there liars ? They never promised anything.

    I think that they should limit the amount of costumes you can buy / family and the problem will be solved.
    Many people have horded up a decent amount of costumes over the years, (myself included, i have at least 1 costume on each of my characters), they will melt those and in like a week or two, that amount of crones will be gone. Some will be lucky others not so much.
    But afther this some whales will remain, they always do. But there are silver seller/power levelers for real money since the game came out.
    If you really want to blow a couple of 1000$ to get your pen items, you could have done it even befoure this patch, just saying.
    Nothing changed, you could buy silver with money from 3rd party sites, now you buy it from PA. Same shi* different package.
     
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  19. Itago

    Itago Witch 62 EU

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    Can you find screenshot of a single player on EU/NA with full PEN? Limited to BiS gear, i would not think you can find any.

    30 days and 570-580GS is just arbritrary numbers, but lets call it short playtime and high gearscore if that makes you feel better.

    If something is PAY2WIN, then it have to include winning is some form. For most people this would be higher gearscore, higher than what is considered softcap with a decent margin.
     
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  20. Mimimimi

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    i get where you are coming from, but i don't agree. as you are saying offering game-breaking items for money only would be clear pay to win. saying you can reach all goals in a game without spending spending money, however your chance to do so will be incredibly low without doing so is the same in green. it still depends on the chance, but in the extremum it can converge to the very same.

    PA is making obscene amounts of money with this game. about one third of their revenue was net profit in Q1 2018, that's a profit of 21million euros. I'm not saying that this isn't totally earned, but saying we need to support the publisher more is very debateable. (source is the annual reports on PA's website)

    previous to last patch, i would have agreed with you that it is good thing that people with money are able to buy perl items and put them on the market place. however, now the efficiency of selling such items has increased so drastically that i wouldn't agree to that anymore. paying 32€ for 110kk silver is just as bad as buying it from botters. that's p2w right there.

    the worst parts for me cash wise are:
    - horses: getting a T8 cruiser is impossible without spending money
    - pets: oh look, you can't even get them without money, and i don't even mention pet breeding (unless you get them gifted rarely from events)
    - storage, inventory and weight: is limited to unviable amounts via ingame options

    the previous patch definitively showed me the direction this is going, after spending about 300€ on the game i won't spend i penny more, not even on value packs. p2w is bad, and they should feel bad.
     
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