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Discussion in 'General Gameplay' started by Silverfauve, Aug 31, 2018.
Hey, you dropped /s
I guess those who are spending a lot of money on this game are total idiots then, if this is not pay to win... The fools.
RO, Bless, all had potential, yet all of those games flopped, a game that is more p2w is GW2, literally buy gems, get gold, buy legendary weapons, mats for best gear, and instant lvl 80 boosts, those are the things that make a game p2w
then go ahead, drop millions of dollars on gw2 and then you realise you have same gear as guy who played 1month... LOL
level boost? oof, after playing 3months i have +-500lvls worth of scrolls in my bank and you also get 2x 80lvl boost once you buy expansions
but if you say so its p2w all i can do is laugh
P2W implies that you spend money to get ahead, doesn't have anything to do with another guy having the same stuff, its what you use it for after all, you play gw2 with p2w elements but seemingly compare it with the items in BDO that doesn't have the same thing, just cause you can swipe for costumes and guild payouts, tents etc, doesn't net you a guaranteed gain, its gambling, while games like gw2 have actual p2w guaranteed gains with what you swipe for, thats the difference
Nobody... erhm Nobody said I want charity or I want something for free.. erhm... clear your throat... ehrm... you going into extremes. There are better ways to keep BDO up and running. When the value of an item goes up to 3x and introducing an unlimited access for players to get cron stones then you know that is greed.
It is funny how they show off their quarterly earnings as positive but yeah looks like they are not making money or NOT ENOUGH.
How do you know what's going on and how you got to that conclusion? Is it because... erhm... you read their minds?
You are basing this entire argument off a logical fallacy, You are A, poisoning the well, B operating in the a posteriori with the assumption that people accept your premise of what is pay to win. You can shape your definition of Pay2Win anyway you'd like but you need to look at the context of the game. When you define Pay2Win and boil it down to it's actual meaning, it's this: Purchasing an advantage over another player that can not be obtained in game through the regular rules set by the game itself.
There are plenty of examples of this and in any other game I would 100 percent agree with you but what you must accept is that in this game power has a very defined formula.
Time x Silver = The number of enhancement attempts.
Anything this game does to influence that equation is pay to win. Just because it's not a pixel doesn't make it any less true. What you are paying for are more attempts at getting BiS, more chances to hit the bingo and statistically the more chances at the wheel, the more bingos you will hit.
Convenience in this game is efficiency, efficiency is more silver per hour, that is just a fact! This game was structured to be pay2win from the ground up. Examples of this are all over the place not including the ones added weds.
Item drop scrolls.
All of these items either influence the amount of silver you obtain or reduce the amount of silver needed to enhance, translating into more attempts at that said bingo.
Also, this is not a democracy, it is a video game. IF you are unable to separate the difference from a complex democratic process and a video game, perhaps it is you that needs to step outside and take a deep breath. This point is not analogous but you are missing the entire point of video games. Games like this are designed to be competitive, people plays these games BECAUSE they are on equal footing, because they can reach the same goal and compete through personal skil and investing time without someone paying to get gear. Just because one has a love for the democratic process doesn't mean they also want to see capitalism heavily influence the way a game progresses.
On a personal note: I am a soft cap sorc whom has played this game since it's early access with the 100 dollar founders pack. I've put over 800 dollars in this game.
It doesn't matter what definition of p2w is correct or right. No point arguing. There are as many definitions of p2w as there are players.
I think it's to much and p2w personally and uninstalled Black Desert Online yesterday. I played since launch and now I've stopped. It doesn't matter to me at all, if random person says "but it's not p2w because blah". My limit when it comes to cash shop advantages have been crossed with a huge margin and to such a degree that the game is no longer worth my time at all.
I'm not a whale, so likely wont be missed. I'm a normal spender that buys Value Packs each month and a costume here and here. I know Kakao wont go bankrupt because missing out on my £20-30 per month lol.
What actually matters is numbers, not p2w definitions. If enough players feels recent cash shop changes are p2w and so bad, they can no longer play the game, than maybe wasn't a good idea? If not, if people keep playing anyway while revenue goes up from all the whales spamming costumes, than actually(and sadly) it was a smart move by Kakao+PA. Time will tell.
you can have guaranteed gains in bdo... swipe for multiple payouts and costumes, gain multiple billions and put preorder then you give guy another hundred $ listing pen.. and woala 100% preorder purchase, no gambling at all
but ppl are addicted on gambling and also it can be "cheaper" way to get item you desire so they want go for enchanting instead..
difference is actually enchanting/farming for pen w/o paying rl cash is WAY harder than in gw2 getting best gear
I agree. I spent 2k and got a pen. This is pay to convenience.
P2Convenience? This game lost that title once Artisans memory, and literally being able to purchase silver combined with the ability circumvent ingame mechanics that mandated you grind to get cron stones were introduced. You no longer have to grind silver, or what silver is used for, cron stones.
This game just became one of the most expensive p2w games currently. If you cannot afford to win, at best it is a legal casino then.
This is funny. Back in BnS where i was one of those angry players about rng loot boxes and them being p2w where player with huge enough wallet could bypass upgrading totally i was shot down whole community with this same argument and everyone said it was pay to convenience and not p2w. Was insulted for my opinion.
But now in BDO fairly similar thing happens and community judges it to be pay to win and shoots down guy who says its just pay to convenience.
My personal opinion in matter is its extremely pay to win with insanely high price. With current discounts and assuming each caphra level requires 3 cron fails it would take anywhere from 100euros to 6000euros to get one pen.
I personally could care rats ass about this stuff anymore because its wasting energy. I rather play game for my own enjoyment and have fun. Im already way past softcap with okayish real money spent in game but for now i choose not to support kakao / PA and keep playing as long as im entertained by this game till something else pops up ill keep playing it. Also because the p2w barrier is so high there won't be more than handful or bit more true whales that can go ham with this.
Tho i admit that this has good side too. All useless costumes can be used for something now but its not much ^^
People with stupid definition such as pay to ocnvenience, pay to fast and so on, let me ask you a question :
If we were to play a football match (or soccer watever you call it i dont like that sport). And I pay the referee so that he stops the match for watever reason when you get the ball, let's say 10€/ stop.
Now i pay him 100€. Each time i get the ball i can do watever i want, but when you have it he will stop the match for watever reason he can find.
Is this pay to convenience for me? Or pay to win?
Maybe you are better than me and still gonna win.
Maybe i am trash and still gonna lose
Fact is : i paid to get an unfair advantage.
Now you can say "yeah but the company need to leave" and every ******** you want. I played Dota2 which is free to play and pay to win/convenience/fast or watever doesnt exist in this game, neither does it in fortnite (which is a game i hate) neither does it in overwatch.
If paying give me an advantage over another player, however small it might be. It's pay to win. Else no game has ever been pay to win in all existence according to your completely stupid definition.
edit: and no matter the price it's still pay to win. Its not because the vast majority can't afford it that it's right to give 100% pen chances to people who can. (and dont tell me it's not 100% pen chances you can cron forever and you can litteraly buy memory fragments so as long as you have money you can click and you ARE gonna get it).
Being able to flat out buy gear upgrades with your wallet and ignore the grind.
Excuse me, I found your brain on the sidewalk. It might still be usable.
I know right? If there's no advantage, why spend money? They obviously support the server out of the goodness of their heart, so they deserve a pen or two.
P2W: Acquire something from cash shop only? Then, where does the 'pay for convenience' meter reaches p2w levels? At 10 times easier to get something, 100 or 1000? This is what has been increasing in BDO over the years. Frankly, it's still low at the moment, and the community accepts it because the game is worth playing, but PA is smart going at it in subtle ways, so I think they should add more conveniences.
Pay to Convenience?
First of all you guys, all forms of P2W is a ****ing convenience. People are trying to act like their is some imaginary difference..
It is very "convenient" to NOT have to spend a **** load of time playing the game and swipe a credit card to get strong AF fast as hell in the game"
Just because any of you are saying it's pay to convenience.. doesn't change ****. It's still P2W.
EDIT: You want to know what convenience is? BDO's TENT that's a convenience ... artisans and this cron stone costume melting.. is P2W.
Ah-Ha! But the exact 'pay to win' model would be to acquire something from the cash shop that you cannot with in-game money at all. But that's too radical and kept people away leaving a game like BnS where whales had no one to kill cuz ppl stopped pvp. lol.
Cosmetics is good but not enough if the company produces 3 a year. -_- Gw2 and BnS got a lot of cash off costumes cuz they have a LOT. I miss BnS costumes...
The subtle approach to milk money is conveniences with marketing schemes and psychological advertisement. (Yep, it's a clever little thing.) However, the 'convenience meter gets larger with time offering to save months and even years of playtime while decreasing the cost and adding more options.
Another thing everyone ignores or devalue is the time invested in the game. Not everyone has fun playing from the start, especially when it's an activity you can't engage in like high-geared pvp, so you end up playing with the hopes 'to have fun' and this is exploited. But it's perfectly legal, and completely acceptable since it's your fault for being dumb and/or having bad luck the game changed radically after you got addicted. The companies are angels that get worshipped.
Lets end that, P2W is when you can add money for anything wich can help you in game and isn't just cosmetic.
7-8 constumes.. So you have enough for 1 PEN attempt.. Cute... Say afterwards how it went,..