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Wizard needs help devs PLEASE fix our class

Discussion in 'Witch/Wizard' started by LordCrusty, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. LordCrusty

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    Warning Long Post

    First point i would like to make is i have played wizard since the Feb 28th headstart and i have been through the ups and downs of this class and always managed to pull through. However with the recent CC changes, mystic/striker being added followed by ranger and the ever growing world of bdo adding new spots we are falling farther and farther behind. would like to point out a few things and the reasons why i believe wizard just isn't enough anymore.

    Wizard Mechanical Flaw

    Wizard was designed with skills we can not cancel once started and once upon a time this was fine long ago before the initial CC changes. We could not cancel our skills but we were always safe in the fact that we could CC lock our target during things like an Aqua Jail, this allowed us to some degree stand our ground in 1 VS 1 and made our opponent have to think before they engage.

    After the CC changes wizard skills kept the animations non cancel-able but our CC locking was removed and this HEAVILY effected out PvP ability to protect our self. Once we cast a skill we can/could not move untill it finished it's animation and people are free to attack us at will.

    Wizard not being able to move and stuck in it's skill animations is more of a problem as times goes on, the more AP people get from new gear and upgrades the more damage they dish out to anyone in general. This is terrible for wizards as we can not animation cancel, it has gotten to the points we cast an aqual jail and get 2 shot while its being cast and there is nothing we can do about, we NEED to wait for the animation to finish before we can move. So as more time goes in this character flaw gets worse and worse and soon they will walk through our skills and 1 shot us not 2 shot from the ever increasing AP.

    Almost every if not every class can out grind us once said class can 1 shot the mobs. A wizard has to wait for the skill animation to wind up and cast and finish before we can move to the next pack.The mobs we attack are usually dead the first couple of ticks and we literally waste time which could be spent heading towards or killing the next pack because the skill has to finish its animation. This inherent flaw allows wizards to be out-farmed by any person/class who can 1 shot and knows what they are doing

    I mean seriously it's at the point where people don't even need to PK us they just out-grind us and we lose our spot no flag needed.

    Flow Damage from Pets & how it effects us

    Half of our damage as a wizard comes from our flows and our flow damage is based on the pets FLAT AP and not the characters AP. Our pet has its own AP its damage goes off and this causes numerous issues for us as a class in PvP and especially PvE.

    Once a wizard reaches soft cap we start to fall behind in terms of grinding,our class is aoe burst damage and is not DPS based. The fact that our flow damage is essentially capped means we only have the regular skill damage that goes off our AP. As we lose half of our damage compared to other classes and have to wait for skills to finish we are MUCH slower and less effective at grinding areas like Aakman/Hystria and newer areas that have mobs we can not one shot.


    It's bad enough we can not hold our spot down when we grind but we also make gains at a much slower pace. You combine the average wizard being PK'd out of grind spot or being out-farmed and lack of end game grinding ability most wizards are falling behind in game progress.(Most wizards at a level to compete these days have got their gear from SMH payouts, technically bug abuse but that's another can of worms)

    Something needs to be done about this, we should not have to play another character to progress our main the one we want to play at the same pace as others.


    Group PvP/NodeWars/Sieges

    Wizard is designed by its very nature to be a group based PvP class and we are the closest thing to a priest with buffs this game has, with that being said wizard is a Protected Area and Heal Slave to guilds and that is why we are wanted.

    The guilds with the most Wizards and Witches will typically win the war if they play right because of our classes support utility. Our class turns the tide of a war and that is where we shine some argue we are overpowered because of this and i agree but it is the only thing in this game we excel at. No wizard or witch worth their grain of salt can deny the fact we are the backbone of a node war.

    You know what we hear during a nodewar from a shot caller? PA1 GO, PA 2 GO, Heal in 1 2 3 and push in, are your buffs ready? You will never hear a shot caller tell the average wizard "wiz" get that person over there he's causing trouble in the base. I mean in most siege guilds we even have designated peelers/body guards that stay with us so we don't get melted and we can continue Supporting the group.

    People make the claim that wizard is overpowered in node wars because we have blizzard and meteor but people do not seem to understand that our AOE damage is SPLIT between our targets. During the average blizzard we can slow people which is great and during a meteor we can knock people down which is great., OUR DAMAGE IS SPLIT between each person and they can probably outpot it with 2x 275HP potions.

    Unless the wizard is geared out the rear end and is fighting much lower geared people we bump into 1 above soft cap player and we melt. The average wizards job is to support their guild with buffs and slows and if you ever watch a wizard engage a group we are among a group that outnumbers the people we attack. *some players are obviously the exception of coarse*

    There is a reason guilds have recruitment messages that give lower standards to us all were good for is support, i mean THINK ABOUT IT when was the last time any of you on equal gear footing ran from a wizard or witch? Hardly anyone, most times you kick us out of the grind spot or farm over us.

    Mystics and Strikers and Wizard/Witches
    Mystics and strikers have purposely added magic defense that HARD COUNTERS us, it's not even a fair fight it's a slaughter. Strikers and mystics go on a shark equivalent frenzy and we are the fish they eat.

    We are literally a David vs Goliath without the sling shot or rock, i mean seriously what crazy nutjob in the development team said lets make a class take 75% less magic damage and make 1/3rd the classes useless against them. THAT IS LITERALLY like saying hey stiker, musa and ninja do to much damage lets give Ranger 75% physical damage reduction.

    Why and where is the logic that you make a class that hard counters magic users but not add a class that hard counters physical? Hmm? HMMMMMMM i mean come on Biased much?


    Skill Break Down And ones that need to be fixed

    Earth response- This skill needs a bigger AoE range, this skill is damn near useless in PvP. The damage is fine as is for what it does.

    Magic Light House (red)- This skill should follow the caster around and last longer, this would greatly help our PvE and be good for our PvP support utility as it reduces peoples MDEF by 15

    Protected Area- This skill needs to give a debuff that makes anyone who recieves it be immune for X mins. It's to strong and it makes our class stuck to a specific role in PvP. (However doing this should only be done if you boost our combat ability)

    Blizzard- This skill needs to have it's damage boosted in PvP, even past softcap people are laughing at us and using 1 or 2 potions to bypass it's damage when we use this. The split damage causes this skill to be way to low.

    Ultimate Blizzard- This skill needs to have a frontal guard on it enough said

    Magical Evasion> This skill should have an I Frame like other squishy classes and work when our spheres are out

    Aqua Jail- This skill needs to have a CC of some kind, i don't care what it is but the animation is far to long and people walk through it and nuke us. A CC at the start of the skill even if it lasts one second would GREATLY help us. A stiffness that lasts 1 second would even the odds considering we can't cancel the skills long animation.

    Hellfire- Frontal Guard needs to be added back onto this skill- the skills casting animation is far to long and is not even usable in 1 vs 1 fights. Any and all classes just nuke us before we even get a chance to damage them with it.

    Chilling wave- No Suggestions atm maybe some else has some ideas but as of right now the skill is 100% useless in PvP and will just get you killed


    Flame Knot- Add a super armor to this or remove it, The animation when this skill fails is so long we sign our death warrant if it fails and the skills grab range is so frigging short and unreliable we have to be in kissing range. I only use it on when i get close to knocked down targets i hit with aqua shot or cataclysym from a distance to keep them down.

    Lava Field- Change 100 Damage every 3 seconds to 200 damage every 3 seconds, this would help us grind end game areas like aakman and hystria on a more even playing field.

    Our add ons need to be reworked to be more usefull in PvP, compared to other classes the ones each skill offers suck eggs. We need some +15 PvP damage or -15Mdef add ons on things like cataclysum and aqua Jail and or inrease the Attack slow/Movement/cast speed %'s from the meager 5%'s to 10's.

    I know some of these suggestions may have people going WTF, but people need to remember we CAN NOT move during our skill animations and need some kind trade off to even the odds. People are literally walking through our long casting animations and 2 shotting us.


    Conclusion

    That's all for now, i know i'm going to get people claiming wizard is OP which we are not and those people will not be given a response.

    Anyone with a point to add that helps the class or a reasonable suggestion would be apretiated but i do not want to see OMJHBJKKJHBKJJKBJKBK OP KJBKJKJBKJKJ NERF garbage responses.

    On a side note, anyone that even thinks about saying the class is overpowered i dare you to spend a couple months on one and i guarantee you will change your tone very quickly.
     
    #1 LordCrusty, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    Bob2009, Mojihn, Goldfisch and 3 others like this.
  2. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    our addons are definitely badly distributed and kinda low numbers compared to other classes. its a mess, especially after cc changes. just glancing at other class addons numbers is enough.

    chilling wave needs to deal its damage WAY faster. should be sped up at least twice to make any sense. or give it actual usable cc. float? altho id rather it not having a cc at all if they speed it up. so they can put its cc on some other skill (aquajail would be good choice, as people can pve dodge through it to grab us, avoding even flow damage from it )

    lava field damage is a joke vs anyone that has any gear. probably same issue as with our flows - fixed ap. maybe it should also give debuffs as red ball OR a %buff to incoming (fire?) property spells.

    we NEED a way to anicancel+iframe some stuff. this way anything with ap squashes us in SAs (or grabs us)we cant cancel. pve dodge could be used for that, on a decent cooldown(maybe just on sidesteps, or backward one, to prevent engages?).

    id rework freezes somehow. it could be a "timeout" cc. 100% damage reduction while in duration, prevents resource regens, cd timers and pots for duration(should be a little longer than it is), goes through SA, cannot be stacked/chained (applies a protection buff from additional freezes for a few seconds after target thaws)

    protected area shouldnt be chainable.

    earth response needs a fg at least or bigger aoe. as it is now it is a "Earths followup" at best, as it is mostly used to followup on a stiffened target with a float.

    blizzard needs to have split damage somehow reworked(not removed, was too strong before). it doesnt deal almost ANY damage on few people. pot fairies dont even have to work on it hard.

    earthquake is just sad. needs WAY more dps(faster execution? bigger numbers? more basic crit modifiers?).its glorified hail mary to stiffen someone and will get u killed easy if u dont have tp to cancel it.

    hellfire gets u killed as it is. has decent addons as far as wizard ones go but sadly rarely used outside pve. black spirit version (which we dont have yet)gives it its fg back for a price. should be other way around. it should have FG always and get cc on BS application.


    also, we are WAY too slow without speed spell up. while i agree it shouldnt have 100% uptime on allies, casters themselves without it are crippled.




    and i have to wonder why does the 5/5damage class has probably lowest dps. and its not margin differences, other classes can delete stuff WAY faster.
     
    #2 WhySoSeeryus, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  3. LordCrusty

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    almost the exact same changes i suggested to the skills XD
     
  4. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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  5. LordCrusty

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    Maybe enough of us singing the same "tune" will get their attention =p XO
     
  6. Dryed

    Dryed Warrior 62 NA

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    Warrior needs buffs *wink* *wink*
     
  7. Rena

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    Can we send the suggestion directly to global lab? even warrior and valk get 1vs1 buff while being top god tier already, witch/wiz need some eavy rework
     
  8. FunkD

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    Witch is actually in a decent spot within the current CC/SA meta. It's a bit vulnerable to grab classes in 1v1, but it's zoning is good enough to make grabbing still a challenge, and it's CC ability and protection ability is great and I can't really think of many adjustments to Witch that wouldn't catapult it into OP/broken status.

    Wizard is finally becoming universally recognized as being a dead class after what they have done to it's kit and wonky damage over the last year and how nonsensical it is. Changes are definitely needed, however like I mentioned with Witch, there is a fine line with these classes and adjustments being "not enough" to "overpowered as hell."

    With Wizard, Aquajail/Hellfire/Bolide/Chilling Wave have become awkwardly useless (well to be fair Chilling Wave has always been somewhat awkwardly useless) when they forced the "SA or CC per skill" across all kits. Even then, they couldn't budge all the way as Wizard still has CC and SA on Cataclysm, which is recognition to how both SA/CC are fundamental to all the skills designs in the awaken kit for Wizard. Just by their design, the way Wizard kit was envisioned, unlike Witch skills, they don't serve a function of "zoning" so they lay in a fundamentally broken state outside of PvE.

    Witch skills just "happen" to still work well with the changes. Of course that is just being lucky the way the kit panned out, when they removed some CC and SA, that the skills in the kit still remain usable and relevant, especially in large scale. Not so lucky was Wizard and the way the kit just became nonsensically broken once those SA/CC changes came. The slow speed, the animation lockdowns, the lack of serving any realistic purpose of "zoning", and lastly the severe lack of damage scaling to pose any threat whatsoever..

    I'm not sure they will ever entertain the idea of restoring or fixing the Wizard kit. What is funny, is the BSR Hellfire skill is nothing but fixing that skill to it's previous unbroken state at a cost of BSR. Not cool.
     
    #8 FunkD, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  9. LordCrusty

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    I have over 9000$ CDN into the account most of which is on my Wizard and zerker, wizard was my beta character and has 3 years of Stamina,Health and breath 192 inv slots and over 2k weight.

    The character is just not replaceable for me to reroll and it's hard to imagine playing anything else. When they removed the renown DR it was the final nail in the coffin, as much as I hate to say if they do not fix wizard my time on bdo may come to an end.
     
  10. Rena

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    They are both toilet paper tier 1vs1, everyone know that, and apparently is working as intended if our "true role" if the one of a support class, doesn't matter if our dmg doesn't scale as it should past soft cap and we don't have a kit for 1vs1 like other class bcs like stated by developer we are true role support class = heals and pa, our task end here, working as intended

    [Photoshopped picture removed]

    idk you but i want do kills and being able to defend myself, they can give pa and heals to someone else
     
    #10 Rena, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2019
  11. Rayin

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    Rena, stop being a world-wide EU meme please.
     
  12. Rena

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    The only meme here is you, you play warrior, you have no gear and get melted in rbf and run around in forum like an expert, sorry if i play witch from beta1, i'm 570gs and i've been in multiple siege guild, come back when you have the esperience to talk about pvp
     
    #12 Rena, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  13. Rayin

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    Yeah, keep saying craps and in the meantime get your àss served on a silver-plate by every person in a non-siege guild, stop being a meme, if you state something say why or how instead of justifying yourself pulling "facts" out of your magical back-cilinder.
     
  14. Crimson_Scarlet

    Crimson_Scarlet Shai 60 NA

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    Our class has been in a good place for a very long time from before cc changes, SA removal on classes and introduction to renown.

    While overall the class is seen as a support role in a game were you can supposedly play what ever you want we managed to get the better end of the stick in this matter.

    Can play , hybrid ,evasion meme, full ap and get away with it while others are stuck with one path the monkey until they manage to get 269 ap to start feeling useful.

    1v1 is not the best but we have a good utility to deal with most of the classes, not forgeting that we are suppose to engage from range with our pre awaken then swap over to awaken when they are closer.

    The support skills 3 lots of heals if you use sage heal ( 1v1 only being able to use 1 tick ofc) is much better then others.
    Speed spell, mana shield alone are very strong 20% cast/atk/movement and 25% dmg absorbtion and 15% resist ,mind you using up mana.

    The slows blizzard,paralysis,chain and absolute lightning and mana absortion as well as adds for awaken.
    Then there is our cancerous pet stiff.

    Our awakening is wierd being more close-mid range and very slow but pretty heavy hitting even with the flat pet ap.

    Yes, it does suck that the main reason guilds want us is for PA number and heals but at least your wanted.

    No im not talking out of my arse 577 gs ap gear and 576 dp gear (440 dp) 56k rbf meme kills and still noding and sieging sadly.

    There are quite a few qol changes that can be made however if you want the class to be more 1v1 heavy then it will need to be completely reworked and wont be the same.

    Note: Im one for removal of PA to make it either personal use only or gone since its a main focus point for people complaining.

    Tldr
    Better being a witch/wiz then other classes who have been forgotten , with main ogs hiding in caves waiting for their day.
     
  15. Rena

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    My facts are stated above, fact= witch/wiz are trash 1vs1 (and ill add that they got nerfed hard), fact number 2 whit pointed from the developers, they want us "true support class" idk what that mean for you but a true support class is not even mean to deal dmg and combat, the max they can do is resurrect, buff heal and things like that, and i'm sorry but i don't want become that, if you want comment about this, it's fine
     
  16. FunkD

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    Vanns, roll a Wizard and tell me it ain't kinda screwed lulz. I'm constantly resisting the urge to end my suffering and coupon over to witch. ;)
     
  17. FunkD

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    Also link this actual post, otherwise I call photoshop because I have never seen GM's or even PA declare such things in general about any classes specific "roll".
     
    #17 FunkD, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2019
  18. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    Im considering the same.

    however, farming 2,4k sp all over again is a deal breaker for me. xp is not an issue. :D
     
  19. Crimson_Scarlet

    Crimson_Scarlet Shai 60 NA

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    I didnt mention though that witch is in a far better place than wizard. In aspect you are right funk most of our wiz have rolled over to witches , the only thing your missing is a grab but when someone is that close to you a grab wont save you :(
     
  20. WhySoSeeryus

    WhySoSeeryus Wizard 63 EU

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    if our grab could cancel awaken skills, that would be a whole different ballgame. ;D
     

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