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Fixed [Wizard/Witch][FIXED] Accuracy on Skills not working

Discussion in 'Bugs - Archive' started by Kargor, May 17, 2018.

  1. RedThunder

    RedThunder Mutsu Witch 60 EU

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    *sob*

    Thank you!

    I want to thank everyone for their support in these very hard times in which we've been tested over and over again special thanks to my mother, my father, my monkey Bobo, my ant army "The Goliaths", the postman, the old lady at the supermarket, the peeping tom in the woods, the town bullies and last but not least everyone else who had to suffer through these crueling times and endured it all together with me! Thank you!

    I didn't know if this day would ever come and i was in despair but now we've got a glimmer of hope, a tiny light at the end of the tunnel which will hopefully safe us all and i know that in the end we will be ever stronger like never before, we will rule this world with unity and might and the day shall come where people will hail us as the mother of pain as we march down the path of carnage!

    Red
     
    Janus likes this.
  2. Janus

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    @GM Dew how does PA or Kakao plan to make up for this "unpleasantness"? Every witch/wizard lost weeks of value packs and iirc also skill change coupon time. Some also lost kama blessings and loot scroll time. Apart from the regular grind value (42days x 2hours x 20M x 35% clearspeedreduction = 420M for casuals) during those 6 weeks? Not even talking about the PvP disadvantage.
    Suggestion: Give all witch and wizard for 6 weeks a 50AP buff.
     
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  3. Suawoy

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    We all know what we will get. It's only question how many GM Blessing's Black Stone Arm/Weaps ;) Free Shakatu Box would be nice though :)
     
  4. Slynx

    Slynx Slynx Witch 61 EU

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    Haha, compensation - good one. They don't give a **** about such changes. You're on test server, bugs and other things like that are normal. Don't expect any compensation. Pearl Abyss gave us multiple examples that they don't care about players effort. For me, probably the biggest hit was CP change, when they decreased amount required for next level. DId they recalculated players exp to match new rates? No. Same was with character exp when they decreased exp required for next level. Did they recalculated exp for players? Some of them put a lot of effort to get 60 lvl, but well, who cares... not Pear Abyss, that we know. Someone else could probably bring much more examples.

    @DemonNinja I noticed something after I was pvp yeasterday for 3 hours with one player. Sometimes, really rarely - probably once per 30-50 skills I noticed that skill actually deals full dmg. There were situations were I could take about 50% HP with one skill (250 AP vs 270 DP, so it's fair). I think it may be a problem with accuracy. Mybe it's like ~3% chance to apply correct modifiers. Don't think there is other good explanation...:/

    So touching
    [​IMG]
     
    #1244 Slynx, Jun 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  5. Epsilonial

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    Except for the part where PA specifically said that it was a damage drop due to the pet rework. As well as the fact that there was a damage drop.

    You can't really say "I don't think it was related to pets, it only seemed to have affected only classes with pets, and only skills that involved pets, and only the parts of skills that affected pets, but that's just coincidence."

    Several tests were done, including Big and Shiny's, that showed that any ability involving Pets, had its damage completely gutted during the interim patches (Between them reworking pets, and them introducing the flat pet AP). Therefore, there is no logical conclusion besides the fact that pet AP was broken. It was a present bug in Mystic, Striker, Tamer, Witch and Wizard.

    You don't need to look at tests. You don't need tests to see that Huntler goes from dealing 1/2 to 3/4ths of someones health, to less then half the damage from before. With the only change being to pets, recorded in patch notes. Acknowledged by PA. Tested by B+S. And others.

    See here's the problems with your statement. One, it was acknowledged by PA that this, specifically, was the problem. Two, the damage drop was obviously apparent without the need for testing. Three, it was the only variable fixed, thus it was obviously the problem to begin with.



    Data? No, however it's an easily reproducable test, that you are more then capable of doing for yourself. Simply drop some AP, so you can have the same amount with an accuracy offhand, as you do without one, leaving accuracy as the only variable. I found absolutely nothing out of the ordinary doing the test, so I did not record it, nor further investigate it.


    The problem is that it doesn't "Simply" prove that Accuracy has a higher stat weight in the formula. It proves that accuracy is an integer number that increases damage, outright. Instead of simply checking for Hit/Miss. It changes the entire perception of the damage formula because, up until this point, people assumed if you "Hit" someone, you did damage. If you "Missed" someone, you did no damage. This change would specifically state that the former is untrue and that Accuracy vs Evasion is not a hit/miss calculation. It's a flat damage reduction calculation. Making it essentially, the same as DR, with a different scalar.

    Next. Yes. You do do, literally, no damage on non-crit casts to certain classes. Namely Striker/Mystic. That was shown in the test on reddit done specifically to isolate flow damage on Witch.
     
  6. Janus

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    Honestly I wouldn't be so sure that this is all that happened there. I think that several issues hit at the same time, one being accuracy, another being crit-hit of pets, another missing reknown for pets. Maybe more than that.
    I did see a reduction in Meteor damage 5 weeks ago, too. That one doesn't have a flow/pet so maybe that one was from accuracy. Who knows. I guess we can only test again after next update and see where we are at.

    And in the meantime push for PET/FLOW DAMAGE SHOULD ONLY BE BASED ON CHARACTER AND NOT BE CALCULATED SEPARATELY !!
     
  7. Epsilonial

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    I completely agree. I was just pointing out that, as much as he was attacking huntler for making random uninformed statements based off bad data, he was just as bad. Then he just denied observable reality and demanded tests for something that the developers confirmed, and was blatantly obvious.

    As for the bugs. Yeah, it's actually fairly amusing. I could believe there's an accuracy bug *and* a damage on non-crit bug, but if it does, I don't think the accuracy bug affects Witch/Wiz in a major way because I saw no noticable difference between 300 accuracy and 450 accuracy. That being said, at 300 accuracy, I should be hitting almost every time versus my target (294 standard griffon+urugon softcap). However I still observed the non-crit damage bug on both accuracy test sets.

    It's an odd situation. How deep does the rabbit hole go, because at this point we're looking at, what is likely, three completely separate bugs. The Renown Scaling bug, the Accuracy bug and the non-crit bug. Wonder if there's any more.
     
  8. Huntler

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    So where is your data/evidence? Everything you've said I can say right back to you has hearsay. You don't get to claim someone elses tests through a reputable source aren't enough and then provide nothing to counter it.

    Also, the evidence that pets scaled with Ap has been tested.... many times... even bigandshiny did a test way back when on this. Regardless, if you go to the patch notes I linked before it flat out states that they've changed it. This specific line:

    "
    • Summoned creatures/magic circles/formation spawned by a character will get stats that combine the AP of the summoned object itself and the character (excluding bonus stats)."
    Implies that they changed how our scaling worked and it excludes bonus stats (renown, buffs, etc.). Now it takes some deductions to get here, but the patch that changed our damage wasn't the renown patch. If what you claim is true it was the introduction of renown that should have ****ed our damage because everyone gained a lot of DR and our pets gained nothing until the +80 AP patch... however that is 100% entirely false. We did not lose damage until several patches after the renown change (and even the renown rebalancing).

    Also, the fact you can't help it but let Man Up live in your head throughout every post tickles me to no end, but thats neither here nor there, maybe stick to the discussion at hand.... otherwise you seem like just some salty forum poster.
     
    #1248 Huntler, Jun 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  9. Laih

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    Gotta love how eveyone thinks they are teck gurus and know everything about bdo. Let's just see how it will be next week before complaning how this will not fix it.
     
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  10. Epsilonial

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    They did confirm that the bonus stats specifically not being scaled are Renown specifically. You can test that in various ways. Such as, eBuff. As a witch you should be able to easy be able to isolate your flows (At the very least SLRMB flow is extremely easy to isolate), and see that the ebuff buffs the damage. You can also test it with Giant Draught (For elixirs) as you'll see a huge difference in damage due to +crit and +back attack damage.

    Afaik, I haven't seen anyone post anything saying any specific thing isn't being applied, and I have seen tests stating that Crystals, Elixirs, Meals and Skill buffs (IE eBuff) are working and still scaling into the damage.

    Out of curiosity, have you seen anything to the contrary?
     
  11. Huntler

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    I've seen nothing saying bonus stats being excluded is only renown, where did they confirm this? Historically bonus stats have always been "hidden" stats such as food, gems, etc. I'm not saying I have proof one way or another, but I certainly haven't seen tests proving it one way or the other.

    It just seems from a design perspective its unlikely they bisect bonus stats in more than 2 ways (sheet and hidden).
     
  12. DemonNinja

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    I didnt state anything as fact though and everything in that final paragraph was written in a completely speculative and hypothetical tone in order to further the conversation on with other hypotheses.

    Scaling implies that there is a additive or linear tread to the data. I.E. - For every sheet AP you have the pet gets 1AP. This doesn't state that - it simply states that your sheet AP (excluding bonus stats) is added to the summoned object. Another example would be your renown bonus stats SCALE based upon your sheet stats.


    In reality all in jest and for good fun/humor in regards to current events with the recent break up of the guild. At the end of the day your posts are toxic and nonproductive - Im fine with you being wrong. :)
     
    #1252 DemonNinja, Jun 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  13. DemonNinja

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    Even BS admitted that his tests were not great and really it needed further testing. So anecdotal. In his post on reddit he states : "side note .. didn't comment on accuracy just because I haven't formally tested it." He also later amended it with "EDIT: I did test it enough though to know that the accuracy is no longer the same as the skill accuracy itself though. " Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/8lv7s9/witchwizard_flow_problem_test/


    Huntler's tests are not done in a way that is actually testing anything with sound testing procedures or data. Anecdotal. See above with regard to BS tests.

    "Data? No" - Sorry but thats not how testing works. That is not a valid tests - in the end we still dont know what the stat weight of accuracy is in the damage formula because we do not know what the damage formula is. That actually doesnt leave accuracy as the only variable.


    Again - we dont have the damage formula and anything anyone says with regard to it is completely speculative.


    Do you have a link to this - Im not sure which test you are referencing and I would like to review it before commenting.
     
  14. Epsilonial

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    https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?threads/bonus-stats.223308/

    Take this with a grain of salt. It is Kaokao confirming it, not PA, but I've seen no tests refuting it, and everything I've tried/seen tried/heard of tried, confirmed this to be the case. The only thing I haven't specifically tested with the aforementioned method (Personally), is Villa buffs.
     
  15. Huntler

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    Thanks for that, I had missed that post, true you have to take it with a grain of salt, but its still something.
     
  16. Huntler

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    So your response to my original post about not to take as a guaranteed fix, the fix PA thinks will bring back our damage.... was to respond with, no you are clearly wrong and its because of this completely speculative, hypothetical tone.....

    Gotcha, that makes sense.
     
  17. DemonNinja

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    No it was more of a - I would trust the people who code the game - have access to the damage formula - and have stated that they did extensive testing across all classes with regard to the issue - more than you, or anyone else for that matter, with their cursory/anecdotal tests or "feelings". That is all.
     
  18. Epsilonial

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    I'm pretty sure he's just trolling at this point. There's no real use discussing something with someone who wants tests that are impossible to do at the moment, already tested, proven and confirmed, easily observable without the need for controlled testing and had the problem fixed. He's not exactly trying to make constructive discussion or discourse. Simply demanding it of people because they didn't give it originally, without a mind as to why or how tests are used in any application of any scientific method.
     
  19. Huntler

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    Indeed
    Reread the most recent patch notes, they quite literally state that it "might" fix the problem that has been reported due to their thoughts that witch/wiz have high accuracy modifiers. Its a guess. Don't get me wrong, I would love for this to fix it. All I stated was people shouldn't hold their breath given what has been said that this will solve the problem.

    "Typically for the Witch and Wizard, these two classes utilize many skills that are affected by the revised Accuracy and thus the issue might have been felt stronger."
     
  20. DemonNinja

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    The patch notes state:
    • We are aware that revised Accuracy effects are not implemented properly and the fix is in progress.
      • The revised Accuracy effects are displayed with “Accuracy + n%” in the skill tooltip window.
    ※ Many of our adventurers have reported that Accuracy is not being implemented properly, including for the Witch and Wizard, and we went through an extensive review in covering all skills of all classes. As a result, we confirmed on this issue and we are working to fix it fast.

    Typically for the Witch and Wizard, these two classes utilize many skills that are affected by the revised Accuracy and thus the issue might have been felt stronger.

    Source: https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?threads/patch-notes-20th-june-2018.232950/

    No place in the above does it say "might". They are pretty clear in saying "Accuracy effects are not implemented properly" - meaning they tested and found that accuracy is not working correctly. They go on to say that this bug would effect classes that have high accuracy modifiers such as Witch and Wizard - Im sorry but I do not see where in that statement you are getting that they are unsure if it will or will not fix the accuracy issue?

    And I'm not trolling you - I'm simply pointing out the fallacies in all of your statements; because what you are stating as fact, as evidenced above, is not true.
     
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